Grain Orientation Question (Dilemma?)

[David DeCristoforo]

I have this really beautiful piece of rose myrtle that is just begging to be a hollow form. But I am uncertain about one thing and that is how to orient the grain. Here is a pic so you know what I'm talking about.

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The left image represents the grain direction of the piece which is about 7" square and 10" tall. As you can see, the grain runs the length of the block. But the color (which is spectacular), represented by the gradient overlay would work best if the piece were trimmed and oriented as shown in the second (right) image The darker area, which is heavily figured with intense an black line burl, would be on the top half of the form. The lighter "side" which is fairly plain in figure but has a gorgeous rose color would be on the bottom with a very wavy black line transition between the two. With me so far? OK, so if I orient the piece as shown in the second image, the grain, instead of being vertical is now horizontal with the "rings" (which are not very distinct due to the intense figuring) would be horizontal.

So, my question, having very limited experience with hollow forms, is how would this affect the stability of the piece or otherwise impact the turning process? I thought about just using it "as is", utilizing the full "height" of the block and producing a form that would have the intense figure and darker color on one side and the lighter rose color on the other. That might not look "too bad" but it might also look like "Two Face", the well known Batman nemesis! I'm hoping that some more "seasoned" turners with more experience with larger hollow forms might have an opinion or two to toss at me. Maybe I should make this a poll...

I have received several PMs asking for pics of the block so here they are:


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159737 159738

159736 159734

Thanx
DD

[Roger Chandler]

David,

My personal opinion [and it is just that, and may not be worth $.02 :rolleyes: ] is that the grain and color running vertical would be preferable to "rings" as you say, and the "2 face" might just add a lot of interest to the piece.

As for structural integrity, it seems that the weight of the piece would be better supported by vertical grain as well, [ think framing walls for a house, the vertical structure of the 2x4s are utilized]

The best effect? My opinion is vertical, but you do need more seasoned turners with hollow forms than me to give you information as to the "best effect"

[Peter Lamb]

David I could not agree more.

[Tom Sherman]

DD I have a tendency to paddle up stream, that said I think after looking at your other post Small hollow form on a stick, that the orientation in a horizontal plane would be a feast for the eyes. But like I said I'm kind of an odd ball.

[Andy Hoyt]

Is the pith present? If so, where?

[Wally Dickerman]

David, I've encountered this same situation many times. My choice would be to use the figured portion on the top with the change in color tapering to the bottom. Should be a spectacular piece when finished.

Wally

[William Hutchinson]

I would turn a prototype in similar grained blanks before committing your prized material. It will give you a good indicator of how the grain/form will integrate as a whole.

[Dale Miner]

What Wally said.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Is the pith present?"

No pith.

"My choice would be to use the figured portion on the top with the change in color tapering to the bottom..."

That's what my "gut" is telling me. The piece that remains would be useable for a smaller turning. So as far as esthetics go, it's a "no brainer". But my concern is with the stability of a piece turned in this manner with the grain running horizontally. I have no doubt that visually, this will be the best use of this wood. I guess what I'm looking for is technical advice more than artistic direction...

[David E Keller]

I vote for your second option... I don't think you should be too concerned about strength for a hollow form unless you're gonna play soccer with it.:eek: I think you should hurry up because I really want to see it finished.:D

[John Keeton]

For what it is worth, every hollow form I have done to date is horizontal, though it seems that endgrain hollowing is more popular because of not having to deal as much with tearout.

I have noticed any structural issues at all. In fact, I think the hollowed sphere shape has substantial strength. I have a piece in progress that would illustrate that point each of the three or four times it bounced on my concrete floor on its way to the other end of my shop!!:eek:

[David DeCristoforo]

"...don't think you should be too concerned...unless you're gonna play soccer with it..."

"...I have a piece in progress that would illustrate that point each of the three or four times it bounced on my concrete floor on its way to the other end of my shop..."

So what you are saying is that maybe I could play soccer with it?

I'm glad to hear this because it would be a punishable offense to not orient this piece of wood this way. I'm going to rough it out next week and then DNA it but I'll post some pics before it goes "in the bag".

[Michael James]

It seems you know what you want to do, and unless your going to cut it into tiny pen blanks, I wouldn't be worried about integrity. It's just another pretty piece of wood, and with your skills and talents it will be awesome.
michael

[David Peebles]

Hi David,

I have done them both ways. I think they both have their place.

Here are two that come from the same tree. One turned end grain and one turned side grain. I like them both. :)

Dave

[Ken Glass]

David,
I agree with Wally. I believe the transformation from the light top to darker bottom would be spectacular looking, but only you can decide. Either way, you have a beautiful piece of wood, that I am sure will become a great turning soon. Be sure to post some rough-out pictures also.

[David Woodruff]

I always try for maximum utilization of the wood. That would then be grain vertical in a vase style HF. If the wood were square, equal in all dimensions, I would go to a grain horizontal HF. That is just me.
Good Luck and please post the finished vessel.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I have done them both ways."

Well, your hollow forms leave little to be desired, as does the rest of your work which is beyond beautiful. They say, a picture is worth a thousand words (although I do believe that was in 1960's dollars which would make a picture worth at least thirty thousand words by today's monetary values) and the ones you posted are the "clincher" for me.

"I always try for maximum utilization of the wood. That would then be grain vertical in a vase style HF."

Kinda my way of thinking too. But recently I have been finding myself willing, to a certain extent, to sacrifice "efficient utilization of material resources" for esthetics. This is one of those cases. The block in question would be much more efficiently used in a vertical format. But the grain and color is protesting this vehemently and I am compelled to pay heed. Since the piece I will have to cut from the block will still be very useable for a small turning, I am not feeling too bad about cutting it.

[Curt Fuller]

I don't think it matters which way you orient the wood. You'll always wonder how it would have looked the other way. Maybe next time buy two pieces of the wood and try one each way.;)

[David Woodruff]

In a 10" or 7" bowl the strength of the grain and orientation is absolutely not an issue. After seeing the wood this wants to be a 10" piece. The wood is beautiful, use all of it.