New tools from the IWF

[Dave Lehnert]

Link to some new tools at the IWF show.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/30696/your-guide-to-the-coolest-new-tools

[Jeff Monson]

The Rikon J/P unit looks very interesting, also the porter cable pocket hole jig looks nice.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have the 3/16 inch flush trim bit. I use it when I CNC some small parts with a 1/4 inch bit and leave a skin then I just use the small bit to get into the kerf and clean it up

[Dave Lehnert]

Like to see the PC pocket hole jig close up. Looks interesting.
Funny reading the comments, The Kreg users are already taking offense there is a new jig on the market.
Reminds me of the time I was looking for a Pocket Jig and stopped in to Rockler. The Kreg jig at the time I did not like because it had all kinds of loose parts to it. Know it would get lost in my shop. You would have thought I had told the salesman at Rockler his mother wore combat boots. Funny watching him get all upset because I did not care for it.

Kinda liking the new DeWalt trim router.

[John Thompson]

The only thing that interest me Dave is the trim router with plunge base. Someone should have thought of that years ago. IMO not nearly enough new and innovative to go to the show even though it's 30 minutes away for me. First time I won't attend in 10 years but there is simply nothing I really need at this point thank goodness with the rising cost of tools and the poor economy.

[Perry Holbrook]

Fein had a new feature on their vacuum. It had a cartridge filter, with a crank on top of the lid. It rotated a cleaning bar for the filter, kinda like dust collector filters have. It was not variable speed.

It was so new, the distributor in the booth had not seen it or had prices. They were not featuring it, so it may have been a prototype for later release.

If you are going, the Fein booth is across the isle from CAMaster.

Perry

[Kevin Gregoire]

woodworkers journal has nice coverage also and they have some short
videos of each new product in action!

http://woodworkersjournal.com/iwf/

[Neil Brooks]

woodworkers journal has nice coverage also and they have some short
videos of each new product in action!

http://woodworkersjournal.com/iwf/

Pretty proud of my brother, Ted, and the video of his pitch for his product, Magswitch :)

[Keith Outten]

Dave,

Thanks for the link, the router bits with 3/16" diameter bearings are just what I have been looking for and i missed them at the Fair. I willl visit Amana's booth tomorrow morning.
.

[george wilson]

I noticed on the video of the 16" Rikon bandsaw,when the guy cranked the overhead blade guard,the whole top side of the saw went back and forth pretty bad. look at the table with the head wavering over it when he cranks the guard.

To me,that saw is way too flexible. I had an 18" Jet at work and gave it to the millwork shop soon. Then,I shoehorned in the old reliable 20" 1950's Delta. World of difference. Plus,I had also bought expensive Carter guides for the Jet to get rid of the obnoxious European style guides,which were impossible to lubricate the lower set of. they were also installed not quite square with the blade. I hated them.

Got to get back to restoring my personal 20" 1950's Delta at home!!:)

[Scot Ferraro]

Thanks for the link -- some nice videos. Looks like some pretty cool new tools to look forward to. I wish I could have attended this year -- maybe AWFS in Vegas next year.

Scot

[Michael Gaynes]

I noticed on the video of the 16" Rikon bandsaw,when the guy cranked the overhead blade guard,the whole top side of the saw went back and forth pretty bad. look at the table with the head wavering over it when he cranks the guard.


It looks to me as if the whole saw is unsteady - they have it standing on carpet for the show.

[george wilson]

If you LOOK at the top,it is clearly waving back and forth,while the table is not moving much,like I just said. If the table is moving,it certainly ISN'T moving like the head. I wish these guys would start putting some decent steel into machines,instead of hype about the other gadgets on them.

If you want to buy it,do so. I won't because I know what a REAL machine is like.

[Keith Outten]

Lighten up George!

All of the vendor booths are using carpet to protect the floor at IWF. Often you will see the vendors carpet on top of the facility floor covering so lots of machines are unstable during the show.
.

[Van Huskey]

Lighten up George!

All of the vendor booths are using carpet to protect the floor at IWF. Often you will see the vendors carpet on top of the facility floor covering so lots of machines are unstable during the show.
.


A couple of shows back I was able to wiggle a Laguna LT32 with one finger...


The Dewalt trim router kit is on my hit list for tomorrow, so far it is the thing I am most interested in.

I didn't get by Festool yet either, wonder if they have their new CT vacs on display.

[george wilson]

Just LOOK at the video. Anyone can see that the head of the bandsaw moves a lot more than the table,carpet or not.

I didn't like giving away a new Jet,and I hope others don't come to feel that way with their personal saws.At least mine was company money,given to another part of the museum.

I advise testing the rigidity of any new bandsaw that you consider buying.

I think there was another discussion here in the past about the lack of rigidity in the 14" Rikon saw,but maybe I'm not recalling correctly.

My wish is to protect guys from spending their money on something they may come to regret. Be careful to test rigidity.

[Dave Lehnert]

Just LOOK at the video. Anyone can see that the head of the bandsaw moves a lot more than the table,carpet or not.

I didn't like giving away a new Jet,and I hope others don't come to feel that way with their personal saws.At least mine was company money,given to another part of the museum.

I advise testing the rigidity of any new bandsaw that you consider buying.

I think there was another discussion here in the past about the lack of rigidity in the 14" Rikon saw,but maybe I'm not recalling correctly.

My wish is to protect guys from spending their money on something they may come to regret. Be careful to test rigidity.

No way to tell for sure till one gets his hands on one BUT........ I looked at the video and don't see the same thing you have. My opionion the whole tool is rocking not just the head of the saw. It would be impossible for the head to flex that much to even sell the thing.

The first generation JET saws were known to have a flexing issue.

[george wilson]

Perhaps it is my long experience that makes me aware of the flexing. Of course,my statements are only my opinions,and no one has to take my advice.

Let me pose a theory I have gotten from my experience with the Jet,examining import machines,and this video:

Why all the gadgets? Is it because the average guy can't tell that there isn't rigid enough steel in the machine,but he can see the crank down guard,the different speeds,etc.?

My old 20" Delta doesn't have a fancy crank down guard,different speeds,little windows to see the blade tracking,or any extra things besides a foot brake. It doesn't need these things anyway. It is very rigid though,and entirely better feeling to operate than the Jet I gave away. I can saw much more accurately with it than I could with the Jet,and especially do better resaw work.

It has cast wheels like the Rikon(why is that a selling point? Is there another,cheaper way to make the wheels? I don't think so.)

It was made years ago when manufacturers used decent gauge steel rather than gadgets to sell their machines.

Of course,there aren't always old machines(that aren't worn out) to be had. However,there are decent saws on the market. They might cost more.

I just encourage buyers who may get stuck with an expensive machine that they may not be able to replace to be careful.

I encourage all to look at the video again. It even flexes when he operates the lever behind the head(another gadget?) Look at the relationship between the table and the head when he cranks the guard.

[Dave Lehnert]

Link to the Rikon bandsaw being discussed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEOJsDS86tw&feature=player_embedded

[Norman Hitt]

Link to the Rikon bandsaw being discussed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEOJsDS86tw&feature=player_embedded

I don't know if this is the same video that George was watching or not, but in "this" video, it is easy to see the the whole saw is rocking back and forth about it's pivot point (which is the base) and after running the video several times and concentrating on individual points and then just staring at the scene as it moved, it is apparent that the saw is rigid (at least in that video) because the table was moving in the proper proportion to the head and their respective distances from the base pivot point, which only means the saw was not setting on a solid floor. As George mentioned though, I would agree that before I bought any machine, (bandsaws included), I would want to do my own due diligence in checking the strength and any areas for sloppiness of fit of mating parts before parting with my money and this includes ALL brands of machines. It's just good practice, because almost every manufactures makes SOME excellent machines, along with a few that just don't quite cut the mustard when compared to similar machines of other mfrs. JMHO.

One "Gadget" they showed that really got MY attention though, was the belt tensioner. I have now and have owned or operated many machines in the past, that due to the location, weight, etc of the motors, belts, arbors etc,
it is/was extremely difficult to access, set the proper tension and then lock the motors in place. The Tensioner on their saw is an excellent idea, simple design yet easy to use and make finely tuned adjustments/settings without needing three extra hands. Although it would be seldom used, I would opt for that gizmo over the quick release blade tensioner ten to one.

[Jerome Stanek]

Dave,

Thanks for the link, the router bits with 3/16" diameter bearings are just what I have been looking for and i missed them at the Fair. I willl visit Amana's booth tomorrow morning.
.

I ordered mine from Tools today it came quick

http://www.toolstoday.com/p-6125-flush-trim-with-miniature-ball-bearing-guide.aspx

[Curt Harms]

The Rikon J/P unit looks very interesting, also the porter cable pocket hole jig looks nice.

Looking at the changeover procedure, I wonder if that machine is related to the Grizzly 10 inch machine.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Jointer-Planer-Combo/G0675

[Darl Bundren]

I've had the older Rikon 14" bandsaw (10-325), and I have really enjoyed using it. To me, the saw seems rigid enough. I am not running super wide blades on there (maybe 1/2"?), but it holds tension and runs very smoothly.

However, the stand that came with my saw, with the little shelf and storage and stuff, is not really rigid at all, and when I adjust the blade guard or detension the blade, the whole machine rocks. However, once everything is set and locked into place, the machine works fine with little to no noticeable movement even when I've been sawing fairly long, heavy boards.

The manual said that users could bolt it to the floor, but I am not going to do that. A little wobble during adjustments is fine with me.

And, seeing the new stuff out, I now want to buy lots of it. Great.

[george wilson]

Look just when he STARTS to crank the blade guard down. The head moves,but SOON,the movement seems to catch up with the lower part. Then,they both move,from being on the carpet. It's just for maybe 2 seconds you can see how the head flexes independently.

I have said enough about this subject. If you can't tell the difference,and haven't tried a good old saw,I guess you will be happy with the new one. When exposed to better,you may see my point.

[Steven DeMars]

We saw a really neat gadget @ the show. It was a laminate roller that you gripped in your hand. Was very well made. Allowed you to get into really tight spots. Made here in the USA. Sold for $29.95.

OK, all thats the good news . . . . now the bad news, we were going to swing back by the booth and pick up a couple of the rollers but forgot about it until we were heading back home.

He was in a booth with another vendor @ a small 24" x 24" table on a corner. I think he was across from the PBC Linear guys that make the XYZ CNC Router.

So if anyone saw this guy at the show and knows how to contact him, please let me know.

Thanks in advance,:)
Steve

[Van Huskey]

George, I went to the Rikon booth today and tried to duplicate what you see in ther video, it may a trick of the eye (camera) but the saw in person is not some limp noodle. I had no way to test frame deflection but I could not produce and visually obvious frame deflection as "appears" in the video.

On smaller saws cast wheels are a selling feature since it is cheaper to put on aluminum wheels. On monster commercial saws Al and steel are used because lower mass is actually a positive in those applications but the Al wheels on those saws are a different breed.


The Rikon J/P does look interesting, the jointer infeed table does not have to move to plane and it is priced at 1999. They don't have plans to offer a spiral head though.

The Dewalt trim router was very cool and I will have one, price with the plunge base is 199 with only the fixed base 129 and no plans to offer it with just the plunge (think that is a mistake and told them so).

The Dewalt 12v LiIon stuff is also very nice and had quite a bit of power.

General International had a new 22" BS which looked very well made with a laser (first for me on a non-production saw) priced just north of 3K.

Bosch's new 2.25hp router system is very nice, always on LEDs etc etc. 36 "improvements" to the 1617. I will probably be buying one of these as well.

Bosch's new CSMS (though not technically a slide, CPMS would be better since it pivots) looks excellent but not any game changing improvement unless you can't keep your rails clean or need the reduced footprint.

The new Festool vacs are a evolution rather than a revolution, the CT26 &36 will be out soon with a marginal price increase. Front hose port and hose garage were the things that jumped out at me.

The presence of the hobby sized machine companies was reduced over previous shows (or non-existant like in the case of Grizzly). General had the most significant offering but even so they had their tools tightly grouped in a smaller than usual space. WMH had a decent space but few machines, you see about as many Jet/Powermatic tools in a well stocked Woodcraft. Steel City had more granite there than a kitchen showroom but not being a granite fan I didn't spend any time there. SS had their usual space and had a full compliment of machines but then they have a limited lineup. Delta wasn't showing too much as they were focused on Dewalt #1 and PC #2. Woodtek had a tight little space but much of it was for one of their big lathes. It is truely interesting to see the MANUFACTURERS with the importers products on display painted and labeled with their names. I couldn't help but wonder if we couldn't negotiate a SMC group buy on a popular tool like a 14" BS... Maybe call it the TROUT or maybe Salmon or Salmander or what ever else lives in a creek.

IWF was fun as always but a little disappointing this time, the economy looks to have taken its toll. I did get some useful nagging questions ansered from the horses mouths and lerned some things I want to buy and possibly more important 2 specific machines I do NOT want to spend my money on. In the end the trip probably saved me some money so I am happy.

Anyone that has questions about anything I mentioned or didn't I will be happy to try to anser them if I can.

[Van Huskey]

We saw a really neat gadget @ the show. It was a laminate roller that you gripped in your hand. Was very well made. Allowed you to get into really tight spots. Made here in the USA. Sold for $29.95.

OK, all thats the good news . . . . now the bad news, we were going to swing back by the booth and pick up a couple of the rollers but forgot about it until we were heading back home.

He was in a booth with another vendor @ a small 24" x 24" table on a corner. I think he was across from the PBC Linear guys that make the XYZ CNC Router.

So if anyone saw this guy at the show and knows how to contact him, please let me know.

Thanks in advance,:)
Steve

Maybe specialtytools.com they were on the end CLOSE to PBC and might sell something like that but I thought they had a medium sized booth, the only other one in the area I can think of that might have shared a booth is Bad Dog Tools. HTH

[Steven Hsieh]

Look just when he STARTS to crank the blade guard down. The head moves,but SOON,the movement seems to catch up with the lower part. Then,they both move,from being on the carpet. It's just for maybe 2 seconds you can see how the head flexes independently.

I have said enough about this subject. If you can't tell the difference,and haven't tried a good old saw,I guess you will be happy with the new one. When exposed to better,you may see my point.

I notice the same thing like the way you described it.
Also When he pulled the tension level notice how the entire bandsaw shakes.

[george wilson]

Van,I appreciate your observations. Please note than Steven just above this post was able to see the flexing. It can be a bit tricky to see,apparently,but as a long experienced machinist I am probably able to pick up on it more readily. I'd think that the cost of using heavier steel in the column would be cheaper than adding features like the crank down blade guard,etc.,which you don't need as bad as you need a rigid frame. I feel like they are going for extra features is to impress customers,but at the cost of saving a bit on use of lighter gauge steel.

Don't get the idea I hate Asian machines. My 16" lathe,8" jointer,and 15" planer,and drum sander are Asian. And,they are perfectly good enough for me. Their bandsaws just don't make it as far as I'm concerned. I hate to see some poor guy who doesn't have a big budget(or has a reluctant wife!) get something he won't like. Everyone needs to go to Woodcraft and try one out first.

I don't object to aluminum wheels. Even Crescent used them. Crescent made very good,heavy industrial machinery. I turned some broken and welded 24" Crescent bandsaw wheels true for a guy. Lightness is a good feature.

All wheels,except a very few I have seen,are either cast Aluminum or cast iron. I don't see why the salesman mentioned it as a sales point since it is very common anyway. Maybe they think the average customer doesn't know that,and would be impressed?

[Steven DeMars]

Maybe they think the average customer doesn't know that,and would be impressed?

Maybe the guy working the booth was just lacking in knowledge about equipment period. Many I spoke to there manning booths that knew nothing about their company's product line beyond what was printed in the handouts . . .

Steve

[Wes Grass]

I was impressed by the big General International bandsaw too.

But the niftiest thing I saw was the Dewalt flexible shaft digital camera. LED lighting, zoom lens (or maybe done in software). Don't know the resolution but the image looked good on the screen. Speaking of the screen, it's detachable and wireless!

Don't know how useful it would be in a woodshop, but looks awesome for anyone doing maintenance work.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I have a fault with the hand roller. To properly bond laminate, you need to apply PRESSURE. I'm not sure how long my hand would hold up. Rockler featured a set of elbows for DC unit, that the halves screw together. They would be perfect for a Phil Thien Baffle inlet in the 4" size. Item # 34367, $19.99, but not available until Sept10th. Boo, hiss, as I need them THIS week. Also, modified wood (thermally treated) caught my eye. Rot and insect resistant, with poplar looking almost the same color as walnut.

[Steven DeMars]

I have a fault with the hand roller. To properly bond laminate, you need to apply PRESSURE. I'm not sure how long my hand would hold up. Rockler featured a set of elbows for DC unit, that the halves screw together. They would be perfect for a Phil Thien Baffle inlet in the 4" size. Item # 34367, $19.99, but not available until Sept10th. Boo, hiss, as I need them THIS week. Also, modified wood (thermally treated) caught my eye. Rot and insect resistant, with poplar looking almost the same color as walnut.

Any chance you caught the name of the vendor for the "HAND-HELD ROLLER"

[Van Huskey]

I was impressed by the big General International bandsaw too.

But the niftiest thing I saw was the Dewalt flexible shaft digital camera. LED lighting, zoom lens (or maybe done in software). Don't know the resolution but the image looked good on the screen. Speaking of the screen, it's detachable and wireless!

Don't know how useful it would be in a woodshop, but looks awesome for anyone doing maintenance work.


I noticed the camera too, I actually have a use for it right now (tracking down a leak in the walls, apparently my PEX skills were lacking...) but I doubt I would ever use it again.

[Van Huskey]

Also, modified wood (thermally treated) caught my eye. Rot and insect resistant, with poplar looking almost the same color as walnut.


That poplar sure did look nice, didn't have time to chat them up about it but I picked up a piece out of the pile and had a good look, the future seems bright for scientific changes to our raw materials.

[Walter Plummer]

Any chance you caught the name of the vendor for the "HAND-HELD ROLLER"

Stephen It is definitely specialtytools.com. booth 7040. I am reading from his handout now . I plan on ordering a couple.

[Van Huskey]

One more thing I forgot to mention was the new Woodpecker router lift with the fine adjustment as a remote crank, it had too much stiction for me, would drive me nuts.

[Walter Plummer]

Did anyone see the Exakt saws and planer/sander? They look very good and priced affordable.($120.00 saw) I forget what he said for the plane set $250.00 I think. They are from the UK. They said a US distributor is coming soon. The plane has two heads. A knife cutter head and a sander head. The saws plunge cut very precisely and will even cut 7/16" steel plate.

[Steven DeMars]

Stephen It is definitely specialtytools.com. booth 7040. I am reading from his handout now . I plan on ordering a couple.


Thank you very much . . . .

I see uses for these rollers beyond laminate . . . .

Thanks again,
Steve:D

[Richard Gonzalez]

No photo, only a line drawing, but looks like what you are describing:

http://www.specialtytools.com/sabel-block-roller.html

[Steven DeMars]

No photo, only a line drawing, but looks like what you are describing:

http://www.specialtytools.com/sabel-block-roller.html


Got one ordered along with other goodies . . .

Thanks
Steven:)

[John Jarrett]

Greetings everyone. I am a long time lurker here, so I hope that no one objects to me jumping in on this topic. I have been a hobby woodworker for many years and just retired from working in broadcast television engineering for 35 years.
I see exactly what George Wilson is talking about. In fact I see it all too often in videos these days. I am not qualified make expert commentary on the flexibility or lack thereof in the Rikon band saw. I am 90% sure that what I see, and George sees, is an artifact of camera used to shoot the video. The relatively low priced cameras used in consumer video equipment (and some semi-pro gear) use what is called a CMOS sensor. This sensor can make things in motion look like they are flexible. Properly called the "rolling shutter effect" aka the "Jello cam". For more information search Wikipedia for "rolling shutter".

[Callan Campbell]

Greetings everyone. I am a long time lurker here, so I hope that no one objects to me jumping in on this topic. I have been a hobby woodworker for many years and just retired from working in broadcast television engineering for 35 years.
I see exactly what George Wilson is talking about. In fact I see it all too often in videos these days. I am not qualified make expert commentary on the flexibility or lack thereof in the Rikon band saw. I am 90% sure that what I see, and George sees, is an artifact of camera used to shoot the video. The relatively low priced cameras used in consumer video equipment (and some semi-pro gear) use what is called a CMOS sensor. This sensor can make things in motion look like they are flexible. Properly called the "rolling shutter effect" aka the "Jello cam". For more information search Wikipedia for "rolling shutter".
Wow, interesting info John, thanks. I guess we add "lying cameras" to the pile of "misleading statistics", used car salesmen at dishonest car lots, non-credible weathercasters, and politicians etc.:p Nothing is sacred anymore..;) Although people swear a camera adds 10 lbs to everyone

[Phil Thien]

In terms of George Wilson's comments...

I suspect most of the movement seen on the video is due to padded floors. The movement would certainly be amplified towards the top of the saw.

But...

Whenever I confront a bandsaw in a store (or anywhere), I hold on to the table and push the upper section back and forth. Then I hold onto the table and pull the upper guide back and forth. In both cases, I look for relative movement.

My tests haven't been exhaustive, but every saw I've tested has "budged" to various degrees.

The steel frame saws I've conducted this test with (including Rikon) have moved more than I think I'd like. Certainly more than CI saws.

It is important to me because when I'm resawing, I don't want things moving on me. I don't want guides shifting and moving the blade, for example. I also don't want something to bend on me and result in an upper guide that doesn't move parallel to the blade in both planes.

My current saw has an aluminum body and it does budge, but not very much. But it is a small (10") saw with limited (7") resaw height, and it moves less than many larger saws I've tested.

I've already "invented" (in my mind) my next bandsaw, specifically for resawing. It won't budge at all, and it will weigh very little. I just have to finish my basement floor and then I'll start on my resaw monster.

[george wilson]

Have you tried to budge an old 20" Delta? The 20" Delta isn't even a "real" industrial machine compared with Tannewictz(sp?),Crescent,and other big saws. It is my favorite bandsaw,though for my home needs,and isn't 10' tall(fits home shop areas).

I,too,have budged the bandsaws at Woodcraft. They ain't maki'n it.

I'm not a video camera expert,but how do you explain the obvious movement of the head looking down on the saw's table,when the salesman works the lever behind the head????? It clearly moves in relation to the table from that angle. I really don't think that's a camera induced movement.

[Phil Thien]

Have you tried to budge an old 20" Delta? The 20" Delta isn't even a "real" industrial machine compared with Tannewictz(sp?),Crescent,and other big saws. It is my favorite bandsaw,though for my home needs,and isn't 10' tall(fits home shop areas).

I,too,have budged the bandsaws at Woodcraft. They ain't maki'n it.

I'm not a video camera expert,but how do you explain the obvious movement of the head looking down on the saw's table,when the salesman works the lever behind the head????? It clearly moves in relation to the table from that angle. I really don't think that's a camera induced movement.

At about 1:44 is see the guy push a crank back/forth. The head seems to move relative to the table, but so does the column. I think it is a perspective issue (the further the object from the lens, the less it will appear to move).

[george wilson]

Excuses,excuses,excuses!!!:) Are you guys working for Rikon?:) The had is seen to move from 2 different angles. First it's camera tricks,now it's perspective?

[Phil Thien]

Are you guys working for Rikon?:)

Yes. Haven't you been getting your checks?

[george wilson]

No,and I haven't been taking my meds either.:)

[Michael Gaynes]

There must have been a second shaker on the grassy knoll...

[Greg Portland]

I see exactly what George Wilson is talking about. In fact I see it all too often in videos these days. I am not qualified make expert commentary on the flexibility or lack thereof in the Rikon band saw. I am 90% sure that what I see, and George sees, is an artifact of camera used to shoot the video. The relatively low priced cameras used in consumer video equipment (and some semi-pro gear) use what is called a CMOS sensor. This sensor can make things in motion look like they are flexible. Properly called the "rolling shutter effect" aka the "Jello cam".It could also be a low bit rate video encoding issue. The saw is not even under tension in the video... turning a knob (maybe 5 lbs of force) is NOT going to visually deflect even a thin piece of steel (let alone a box structure found in most bandsaws). I don't think anyone is going to argue that most newer tools skimp on the important things (build quality and materials) while adding lasers, lights, & other gewgaws.

[Van Huskey]

Excuses,excuses,excuses!!!:) Are you guys working for Rikon?:) The had is seen to move from 2 different angles. First it's camera tricks,now it's perspective?


Nope, but I have actually touched this machine.... :D

There are few saws that resist deflection like the old heavy iron, BUT the best of the breed steel spined saws (this is not one of them) are very stiff and produce excellent results but these saws run 2.5 times as much as the Rikon at a minamum. Set up properly the Rikons and the Grizzlys of the world will produce completely acceptable resawing results with some resonable limitations.

The simple fact is that no matter what causes the perception that this saw is gooey it simply is NOT as rubbery as the video portrays it. Like I said I saw that actual machine sitting exactly where it was in the video and pushed and pulled on it and ran the guides up and down quickly. Based on deflection it sits right with the 513/514 Grizzlys and the new triangle framed Jets (from what I can feel) but it ain't a $3,500 Italian saw nor a hunk of old iron.


Would I personally buy the Rikon as my only saw... NO (nor would I buy 99% of the Asian saws for my only BS) but I would buy it for use as a dedicated contour cutting saw.

[Phil Thien]

but I would buy it for use as a dedicated contour cutting saw.

Your check is on the way. ;)

So what makes the big $$$ steel spine saws so much stiffer than the less expensive models? Are the materials thicker? I haven't checked the specs, are they substantially heavier (indicating thicker stock) or is the design naturally resistant to flexing?

[Van Huskey]

Your check is on the way. ;)

So what makes the big $$$ steel spine saws so much stiffer than the less expensive models? Are the materials thicker? I haven't checked the specs, are they substantially heavier (indicating thicker stock) or is the design naturally resistant to flexing?

The materials are indeed thicker and they have a significant increase in mass, there are some engineering features that also increase stiffness. Large cast saws are still available new but are grossly expensive and there aren't enough old ones to go around, even if we tried to cover woodworkers with old monster iron the prices of the used ones would sky rocket. As for quality steel spined saws Sam Maloof had a group of Agazzanis in his shop, the day I get better than Sam is the day I feel like I need a stiffer saw. Deflection is a bad thing, but every saw flexes the issue is where does it become a problem. The problem occurs somewhere between the old arn and something like the ill-designed last generation Jet steel spined saws. If you can't do good work with the Italian saws or the decent saws of Asian lineage then it is an issue with technique not the saw and if you look at most any woodworking machine with a machinests eye you will probably be disappointed.

Phil, you owe it to yourself to try a Felder, Minimax, Agazzani or Laguna (Italian made) saw, they are quite good and have some advantages over the old arn in terms of ergonomics etc.

One other point about the video the pivot point is at the carpet and the farther from the pivot point you go the higher the amplitude of oscillation, I do not think this covers the specifics of what George is seeing BUT I think it is part of what some are seeing.

[george wilson]

The better saws,and especially the OLD saws,like my 1950's 20" Delta(or even my old 14" Delta with the hexagonal rod blade support),have thicker metal. The castings for the old 14" Delta are thicker than the new Asian made models. Nor does my old 14" have the open sided vertical column that new ones have.

It is just a foolish economy to add gadgets while saving a few bucks on thicker metal.

It is too bad that many of our newer,or less experienced wood workers haven't had the pleasure of using a good old machine. But,on the other hand,I haven't driven a REAL expensive car,so I think my Honda van is quite nice.

[keith micinski]

There must have been a second shaker on the grassy knoll...

This is easily the funniest thing I have ever read on this board.