Personal Observations about lumber buying.

[Tony Joyce]

First in the interest of full disclosure, I do work for a well known lumber company. I do not work in sales or purchasing, I work in the shop. I have 38 years in woodwork manufacturing. Thirty-three years for myself, so I have done a fair amount of lumber and plywood buying experience. Commercial and residential case and cabinet work and architectural millwork and recently doing CNC router work. Few days go by that I do not learn something new.

The single biggest misunderstandings I see between the buyer and the seller is because of lack of good communication . Everybody makes mistakes, but alot can be avoided, by being on the same page. Whose mistake it is is not as important as getting it solved to everyone's satisfaction. Most retail sales people are just that, while having a good working knowledge of the products, they are not experts. They do not live and breath wood.

It is your job as a customer to be sure the sales person understands what you want and expect. Do not assume, especially if out of the area, that your terminology and the sales persons are the same. The more details you give the better equipped they will be to meet your needs. If you need certain sizes clear say so, if you want knotty say so, same with width & length. If it's not available they'll tell you. Sounds simple enough! Please be civil, treat them as you would want to be treated. Being nice pays off occasionally. I've seen people do things they were told not to do by the boss, because the customer was so nice.

Explain what you're trying to accomplish, there may be alternatives to what you wanted, if they do not have what you need, they will make suggestions that are sometimes cheaper and better. If not needed immediately, maybe they can call you when it's available. Remember the goal is for you to be happy, so you will come back and possibly recommend your supplier to someone else. Most true lumber people, especially those that have been in business a long time, are very honest and conscientious.

I just want everyone's experiences to improve. For me, being an observer, sometimes helps.

Thanks for your time. I hope I didn't offend anyone, these are just my personal thoughts on the subject. Also feel free to comment.

[Jim Summers]

Makes me wonder what may have motivated you to write this?

But you are spot on with communication being paramount to successful transactions between parties. I think that is the key, no matter what line of work, or what level a person is, in their respective profession.

In your opinion, what are important questions? Lengths, widths, clarity? I think what is being built is also important for both parties to know.

[Scott T Smith]

Tony, very good insight - thanks for sharing.

Scott

[Tony Joyce]

Makes me wonder what may have motivated you to write this?

But you are spot on with communication being paramount to successful transactions between parties. I think that is the key, no matter what line of work, or what level a person is, in their respective profession.

In your opinion, what are important questions? Lengths, widths, clarity? I think what is being built is also important for both parties to know.

Jim,

Two occasions lately prompted my attempt to lend advice. I contacted the first one after a statement was made on a forum. He contacted me by PM to explain. I did not reveal at first that I worked for the company he had rejected. He realized I might be right after he admitted his wife made the same suggestion I did and I told him who I worked for. I think he'll be back more informed this time. I'm afraid the one today will not end as well. A customer ordered lumber and said it was not what he ordered and he had driven 5 hours to get it . He did not have time for any resolution, he was mad. Had he told the guy when he called exactly what he was expecting the sales person would have told him we did not carry that product. Terminology was at fault. After thirty eight years I never would have expected what he did, using the terminology he did. No one wins this time. At our workplace I have seem orders redone at no cost to the customer simply because the customer ordered the wrong thing.

Knowledgeable customers benefit everyone. I think people are sometimes reluctant to ask questions about what they want or need, or unwilling to reveal what they need material for. Don't take for granted everyone is on the same line. You are the customer, explain what you need, if the dealer can't meet your needs, he'll tell you. Sometimes your needs may be unrealistic, you'll know if two or three other dealers tell you the same thing, that the first one was right. You need to trust the dealer, if you don't find another dealer. When in business for myself, I would not work for people who did not trust me, if I knew in advance. My reputation was and is very important to me. The majority of suppliers and dealers are there to help you.

I'm not trying to chastise anyone, if I'm wrong tell me, I may not like it , but I'll listen and try to remain civil!

[Jim Summers]

Hi Tony,

Wow, sounds like definitely a couple of bad events there.

Again, you are right, communication.

Makes me think of also being somewhat open-minded and willing to listen to what someone who is a professional has for advise.

One time I was remodeling a kitchen and was converting a spot where an oven had been and converting it into a pantry/tall cabinet. I was dead set on framing it in and maximizing the space. Two different people with years of experience said, no, build a box and slide it and work from that. I did not listen and spent way to much time dealing with things out-of-square and not plumb!

[Van Huskey]

You bring up something that is near and dear to me "terminology" when I have moved to different parts of the country (or a single town for that matter) words just don't mean the same thing, even though I thought they were universal. It is even worse in the rough construction trades. I have found you really have to TALK and LISTEN to a hardwood supplier and figure out his/her lingo.

[Tony Joyce]

Jim,
I try to listen and keep an open mind even if I don't agree. Sometimes we just have to learn the hard way. Been there done that.

[Tony Joyce]

Van,
I had picked up on some slight differences in terminology from different parts of the country on the internet. I guess part of this stems from the poll I have up. I was really surprised by the numbers there.

[Will Overton]

Tony,

I agree pretty much with everything you said. There is a flip side also. You mention things that the customer should tell the sales person. In that case, the sales person should realize that they need this information and ask for it.

I dealt with the public for many years, and found that many customers didn't know what they really wanted, but were embarrassed to admit it.

However there is, as you say, no reason for people to be disrespectful to each other.

Good topic you brought up.

[Gary Breckenridge]

I remember one time I was working at the local lumber yard and a customer came in and wanted to buy some two by fours. I asked him how long he wanted them. He replied, "Oh l long time; they're going in my kid's treehouse.":D

[Tom Rick]

I NEVER get pissed off at sales people- OK there was that time just a few weeks ago...

I spend decades in the building trades doing rough framing, trim and cabinetry jobs. I had dealt with suppliers enough to know about stock lengths of trim boards and for some idiot reason I found myself snapping at a salesman who only had 16' trim boards in stock when I needed 10's.....

I feel like a dope to this day but I suppose its is easy to approach the supplier thinking they really aught to have what YOU need... even if you should really know better.

I just spent four hours yesterday pulling through teak boards trying to get the correct combination of length/thickness/width for a large job I am on just now. The yard had a number of 18 footers then containers of 7, 9 10's but no 12's... As this job works out I need the 18's and a number of 12's. I am going back today to buy all 18 and will end up with a number of nice drops in 6/4 teak left over. Expensive but the lengths he has are what are coming in from his broker just now & I did not give him any prior warning to try to fill my order.

[Tony Joyce]

I NEVER get pissed off at sales people- OK there was that time just a few weeks ago...

I spend decades in the building trades doing rough framing, trim and cabinetry jobs. I had dealt with suppliers enough to know about stock lengths of trim boards and for some idiot reason I found myself snapping at a salesman who only had 16' trim boards in stock when I needed 10's.....

I feel like a dope to this day but I suppose its is easy to approach the supplier thinking they really aught to have what YOU need... even if you should really know better.

I just spent four hours yesterday pulling through teak boards trying to get the correct combination of length/thickness/width for a large job I am on just now. Just now he had a number of 18 footers then containers of 7, 9 10's but no 12's... As this job works out I need the 18's and a number of 12's. I am going back today to buy all 18 and will end up with a number of nice drops in 6/4 teak left over. Expensive but the lengths he has are what are coming in from his broker just now & I did not give him any prior warning to try to fill my order.

Tom,
I've had the length problem before too. I just try to remember that the supplier can not keep - every species, in every thickness, in every length, and the widths I need. Like you I had to figure out how to get the job done with what was available to me at any given time.

Thanks for the input! Tony

[Jack Burgess]

Tony, great topic, well said. I would like to also offer suggestion that the issue of communications is not only in buying wood - its anything !! I have been in sales for 40 years and this problem is universal. Respecting the customer and sales person will always get you better results ! amen

[Thomas Bennett]

Tony, I really like your , and everyones', comments about lumber buying. I've been on the buying end of the lumber and plywood business for 30 plus years. I've learned every board, or sheet of plywood is not perfect. I always buy extra. Many times different cabinetmakers in my area have called me up to get one more sheet of plywood, or a few boards becuase they did not order enough in the first place. By the way, I NEVER SELL WOOD! Other cabinetmakers, and the public, assume because I have a shop I will sell my raw materials, especially the curly and figured lumber. I should spend an hour to sell one board? It's not worth it.
I've learned many of the sales and delivery folks are minimaly paid employees and strive to be helpful and friendly. When a truck comes to deliver at our shop , the first words I say to the driver are,"would you like a cup of coffee or a soda?"
One of my freindly competitors in this area takes delivery from the same wholesaler as I do. The driver always complains about delivering to this shop. They do not help unload. They scrutinize every sheet of ply or board. They order more than they need with the intention of returning quite a bit of it. I was shocked to hear this as I know the "gentleman" pretty well.
I know I'm rambling, and a little off-topic...

[Tony Joyce]

I know I'm rambling, and a little off-topic...

Thomas,
No not rambling or off topic at all. Exactly the feedback I was hoping for. Your experiences sound similar to mine. I think everyone benefits from knowing others experiences from both sides of the transaction.

Thanks, Tony

[Scott T Smith]

Tony, speaking personally, I would much prefer not to make a sale, as opposed to having a dissatisfied customer. I know that your employer as well as many other reputable wood suppliers feel the same way.

The only way that I know to get around potential terminology differences is to take the time to discuss specifically "what is meant" by generic terms. This adds time to the process, but it is a worthwhile investment, IMO. If I don't have something, I try to refer the customer to a reputable supplier that does.

One nice thing about today's technology is the relatively easy opportunity to send photo's depicting the actual items' being discussed. I just bought a new phone with a 5MP camera in it to better serve customers in this respect.

Without question, it is important for both the customer and the supplier to make sure that they are communicating well. It is also important for both to "assume positive intent" on the part of others. If a customer approaches me with the attitude that I'm trying to take advantage of him/her, it can add a lot of time and complication to the transaction.

[Will Overton]

If I don't have something, I try to refer the customer to a reputable supplier that does.


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