ULS patent on Class I/Class IV option

[Richard Rumancik]

I just saw this announcement in an A&E bulletin I received:

http://a-e-mag.com/news/universal-laser-systems%C2%AE-awarded-us-patent-pass-through-option

Seems ULS has obtained a patent (7723638) for some type of "conversion module" to allow a laser system to be converted from a Class I to Class IV laser system (Class I being enclosed and Class IV having a potentially exposed beam.)

I can't quite make out what the patent is actually claiming. Pass-through itself has been around a long time. It seems the gist of the patent is to make a "legitimate" Class I/Class IV laser system, whereas with my LaserPro, for example, I need to defeat the interlocks myself. (It is understood by GCC LaserPro that I need to do this, but the laser was not marketed as a Class IV unit.)

But to make a legitimate Class IV system the user needs to use safety glasses and I don't think any number of switches, sensors, or interlocks will detect that the user is wearing laser glasses. So I don't really understand what they have done that makes the system safer than what people are doing now. The main difference, I believe, is that they have "officially" made a CDRH compliant unit. In the past I think the manufacturers were reluctant to follow that route because it was easier to market a unit as a Class I than a Class IV. The user could use the system as a Class IV, but the manufacturer could potentially claim that it was sold as Class I.

I noticed this line from the patent itself - not sure if the wording was intentional or if the patent lawyer just has a sense of humor:

"Although many manufacturers of class I laser systems that include high-power lasers make reasonable efforts to prevent interlocks on the system's housing from being compromised and/or defeated, a significant number of conventional laser systems include safety features that are relatively easy to defeat and, furthermore, many manufacturers turn a blind eye to such issues."

The "conversion module" just seems to be a module that detects if doors or open and (perhaps) sets an indicator to say which mode you are in (Class I or Class IV). If you set the module to Class IV it probably just overrides the door switches allowing the laser to run. But the onus of course is still on the operator to wear the glasses.

I think it is good that ULS has "come clean" marketing the unit as a true Class I/Class IV but I am not so sure that it warranted a patent.

[Lee DeRaud]

...but I am not so sure that it warranted a patent.There's a lot of that going around these days.:eek:

[Mike Null]

I'm not sure I want hear your opinion on a patent for lasering bricks or jeans then.:rolleyes:

[Dan Hintz]

There's a lot of that going around these days.:eek:
Amen! I'm currently working on writing up one patent for a laser leveling system... the stuff that has actually received a nod from the patent office is disgusting, to say the least :(

[Robert Walters]

I'm not sure I want hear your opinion on a patent for lasering bricks or jeans then.:rolleyes:

Mike,

You REALLY don't want to hear what I think of DIETY DAM PIECE OF POO POO DNA PATENTS.

http://dnapatents.georgetown.edu/

One research facility patented a guy's dna because he was immune to HIV,
so now he can't give his blood to other researchers to help others and is under court order not to do so.


BTW...
Do you have the patent number for the denim lasering?
I heard about it, just never could find it.

[Dan Hintz]

You REALLY don't want to hear what I think of DIETY DAM PIECE OF POO POO DNA PATENTS.

http://dnapatents.georgetown.edu/

One research facility patented a guy's dna because he was immune to HIV,
so now he can't give his blood to other researchers to help others and is under court order not to do so.
I thought that was a myth? The only possible manner I can see that happening is if you patent your own DNA, and even then, what's the point? It's yours, so you have control over who can use it for research.

[Mike Null]

Robert

I am not one who worries about silly patents which have no merit. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever been sued for infringement on those two.

[James E Baker]

When I was at the Canadian ULS distributors, they explained the process of the Class I/Class IV conversion. It's basically an external box that bypasses the door interlocks and has connections to gate switches on the doors to the room the LASER is in. Essentially the whole room becomes a Class I LASER cabinet. There's also some legal requirement for protective clothing and safety glasses that the operator in the room must wear for it to be legal.

Of course, I've just got a couple of rare-earth magnets that I attach to the door interlock reed switches when I need the front cover open to work on an oversized piece.

[Richard Rumancik]

. . . It's basically an external box that bypasses the door interlocks and has connections to gate switches on the doors to the room the LASER is in. . . .

Do the doors to the room get electric locks, or does it just detect that someone has come in? What happens to the laser if someone enters - does it turn off (or pause) the laser to protect the person who does not have glasses?

[Robert Walters]

I thought that was a myth? The only possible manner I can see that happening is if you patent your own DNA, and even then, what's the point? It's yours, so you have control over who can use it for research.

Not a myth (scatty huh?)

Correction, it was a breast cancer gene, not HIV gene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9sMtOjeHqM

http://www.genomeweb.com/dxpgx/federal-court-rules-myriads-brca-patents-are-invalid-deems-isolated-dna-unpatent

[Dan Hintz]

Ah, okay, so the courts did knock it down... that's better.

[James E Baker]

Do the doors to the room get electric locks, or does it just detect that someone has come in? What happens to the laser if someone enters - does it turn off (or pause) the laser to protect the person who does not have glasses?
From what I understood, switches were fitted to the room doors, so the moment a door was opened in Class I mode, the LASER would react just as if someone had opened the cover to the cabinet in Class IV mode. The safety glasses and protective clothing were just required to be worn to make the open Class I mode legal.

[Dan Hintz]

the moment a door was opened in Class I mode, the LASER would react just as if someone had opened the cover to the cabinet in Class IV mode.
That would stink... 95% through a job and someone opens a door. Game over. Good luck aligning that raster job again :(

[Rodne Gold]

I wonder if its a tactic to prevent other mnfgrs offering a pass thru without getting "class iv certification"?

[Robert Walters]

I am not one who worries about silly patents which have no merit. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever been sued for infringement on those two.


It be my luck to setup a kiosk somewhere and the patent owner walks by! LOL

At least they were kind enough to have a laser settings chart for denim on page 14:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=lVcKAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=6495237&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Chuck Stone]

That would stink... 95% through a job and someone opens a door. Game over. Good luck aligning that raster job again :(

True .. wouldn't it have made more sense to wire the door sensors to
the "Pause" function? :confused:

[Dan Hintz]

True .. wouldn't it have made more sense to wire the door sensors to the "Pause" function? :confused:
I thought of that, but it still presents a small glitch... the pause function continues to lase until it finishes the current raster/vector line. Probably not a big deal for a fast raster, but imagine if the line (raster or vector) was at a sloooow speed... the laser would continue operating for some undetermined length of time while some unprotected soul walks into the room.

[Mike Ireland]

That's why they should also have a lighted warning sign over the door that says the laser is in use.

[Mike Lassiter]

We have the class IV module on our ILS laser. Several comments here are close to accurate. We ordered the laser because of wanting to cut plush fur material which comes on rolls. The pass thru allows the end doors (or those on either side to be opened) to allow an unlimited length object to be placed inside the laser cabinet. Our laser has a 24"x48" cutting area. By dropping the side doors down, I can run material 24" wide unlimited length thru the laser. As I am cutting material I have the roll sitting at one end of the laser, and pull it off the roll into the laser. We cut out the shapes in the material, and cut the scrape off. Then pull the roll again into the cabinet, and repeat. This required a lot of work in Corel to get the shapes just right to minimize the wasted material.
The class IV module was ordered with the laser, and ULS requires a signed release form.

I installed the laser in a building we had built which my wife and I wired, insulated and finished inside. I had a layout for where the laser would be located (the cabinet is HUGH - the laser can be "broken into" and has to be in order to go thru a 36" entry door) and wiring was done accordingly. Our machine is a 220 volt. The class IV module fits at the top opening of the right side door as you stand in front of the machine. This is also the door I run material thru into my laser. The module must be installed here, so it doesn't matter if in your situation that you would run material in from the left hand side, and have that door down, you still have to have the right side door down in order to connect the class IV module to the laser cabinet. This is I guess due to having access to the key switch on the module, by the controls on the laser cabinet itself which are on the top right front corner standing in front of it. Also there is a shutter assembly that is connected at the top left inside the cabinet that will stop the laser beam from entering into the open cutting area, if the module is "tripped". The top door and front drop down door are required to still be closed as in class 1 mode.
After having the building wiring inspected and passed we began to put Sheetrock up inside and about 2/3 thru this, I find that because of the class IV module there are special required extra things that must be done to meet OHSA standards - which I was not made aware of on the front end of this. A Class IV warning sign has to be mounted outside by the entry door. In addition a magnetic switch like an alarm switch has to be connected to every entry door going into the room the laser is in. I had to remove already installed Sheetrock to add wiring for a flashing red warning light outside the building to warn the class IV laser was in use, and run wiring for the door switch from the entry door back to the laser. I only have 1 door, so this was wired up with phone wire and connected inside the back of the ILS cabinet. When the class IV module is attached and the shutter, should the door be opened during laser use, the shutter closes to immediately stop the laser beam from entering the cabinet. There is a key on the module that has to be turned to activate the class IV module when the laser is powered up. This ensures the operator is in fact intentional meaning to use the class IV module - because it has to be "turned on" separately from the laser itself in order to use the laser if it is configured in class IV mode.

Per the information made available to me, a Laser Safety Officer is required, special safety glasses for CO2 laser protection are required, the warning light outside the room required as well as a sign warning of class IV laser in use. I only have 1 door into the building so I only had to install 1 light, and 1 sign. I assume if you had doors on opposite walls going into the room, you would have to provide these warning at every possible entry location. I argued that locking the door(s) going into the room would eliminate all of this, but these requirement are not from ULS so much as industry safety standards designed for industrial setting. Not so much what like those here are in. The Laser Safety Officer requirements get interesting. But that another discussion. As we are a husband/wife team and working in the shop at our home, several of the requirements seem stupid, however if you were working in a industrial setting with many people I can understand the level of precautions that is called for. The end doors being open "can" allow laser radiation to escape the cabinet with the end cabinet doors open. There seems to be a HUGH preventing injury liability concern with ULS regarding buyers/users of the class IV module. The required agreement to be signed stated the laser warranty could be voided if ALL safety requirements were not met. My argument with ULS is one thing has nothing to do with the other. We spend over $33,000 on our laser system, If I just had one problem with missing something safety related regarding using the class IV module that gave them legal right to void my machine warranty.

Everyone, let me say that I understand ULS wanting to ensure they do not get sued because someone was careless and got blinded by not being safe. The class IV module is exactly what I needed to do what we wanted to do when we considered getting it. It seems perhaps being we are home based maybe they feel individuals will take short cuts or undue risk and get blinded and try to hold ULS the blame for it. Many here have talked about using magnets to override the door safety interlocks and laser items that would not fit into the laser cabinet. The laser is somewhat like a microwave, and intended to keep the radiation contained within the machine. I have yet to hear of anyone modifying their microwave to allow putting something in it they couldn't do if the door was closed, so there is some merit to their (ULS) side of the argument.

Anyway, I have much respect the people at ULS I have dealt with. They are ALL top notch people and I am very pleased that we chose ULS's ILS series laser. There have been a few problems, which seemed to be driver related in the end, but when we couldn't resolve the issues by me following their instructions they flew someone out to look at it first hand. I live in West TN, so they had a pretty good expense to fly from AZ and back to help us. I can only relate to my situation, but if any are considering a laser for large items that could require the pass thru ability, ULS's pass thru that goes from side to side and not front to back as some I researched could be just the ticket.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it answers questions

[Dan Hintz]

The required agreement to be signed stated the laser warranty could be voided if ALL safety requirements were not met. My argument with ULS is one thing has nothing to do with the other. We spend over $33,000 on our laser system, If I just had one problem with missing something safety related regarding using the class IV module that gave them legal right to void my machine warranty.
Mike,

As you said, ULS cannot dismiss the warranty on their machine because you failed to meet OSHA requirements for worker safety, even if they have a signed agreement. The law simply does not allow others to force you to sign away your rights. People practically sign away their firstborn when they take their cars in for service, but despite what it says on the form you sign when leaving your car there, if they damage it, they pay for it (though you will likely have to fight for it).

I would consider that a scare tactic, but a pretty poor one, if you ask me... your company lawyer would take a look at that and get a good chuckle.