Apple Chisel Handle

[Jim Koepke]

The winter of 2008 brought some heavy snow and knocked down a few trees around here. Most of them were alder that is mostly used for fire wood and batting mallets.

One of my neighbors had a large apple tree go down. Some of the pieces were pretty big at about 14" diameter. He was just going to use it for fire wood. He gave it to me.

Some of the smallest pieces are just now getting dry. I want to make some saw handles out of some of the pieces. The smallest piece that was riven out was about an inch roughly square. I trimmed it a bit and chucked it up in the lathe and made a chisel handle for one of my short 1/2" paring chisels.

In the picture, it is the one at the bottom or closest to the camera.

159434

It was sanded to 400 grit and then rubbed with an oil and wax mixture.

The apple wood seems a little soft compared to other woods I have used. Feels good in the hand though.

jim

[Russell Sansom]

I haven't looked up the specifics on apple, but I've always thought of it as rather hard. It was often used for accidentals on harpsichord keyboards ( same the black keys on the piano ). Even 300 year-old keyboards don't look too worn from use.

[Jim Koepke]

Mine was outside for a long time. I wonder it the weather had some effects on it. It may also be a different variety than normal wood working apple.

I do not know. I usually gauge these things by how much my finger nail can sink in.

jim

[James Taglienti]

i know there are hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of apples- but I don't know how much the wood changes with each type. I wouldn't think very much.

[john brenton]

Maybe it has to do with the cut (ie. closer to the heartwood, or closer to the bark)?

Jim, your chisels have an interesting shine to them, they almost look like the kind of shine that two cherries tools have. Is that just the photo are do you give them a special treatment?

[george wilson]

Apple is a fairly hard wood,at least as hard as cherry. Pearwood was also used as sharps and for cheaper violin fingerboards. The Swiss pearwood I've had wasn't real hard,but I had some Nigerian pear that was a good bit harder,though still no harder than cherry.

When we made the harpsichord (spinet,actually) making movie in 1974,I used pearwood stained black for the sharps since the original Stephen Keene spinet I used as a model had pearwood sharps.

I made my stain from iron chips,oak nut galls,powdered,and malt vinegar. It was intensely black and is still holding up even today. The recipe is 18th.C..

[David Weaver]

I'm sure it varies some, but the apple that I got from the guy who sells wood on walnut seems to be pretty hard and smooth. It works almost like maple, but it may be a tiny bit wet still (it's quartersawn, so i don't care if it is).

I have other KD apple that doesn't seem as dense, but it's still a good bit more dense than any cherry i've got, but I've got a wide range of density of that, too, it seems.

[Jim Koepke]

This piece was from the outside. One side had some bark on it when I started. It was also from a limb and not the trunk.


Jim, your chisels have an interesting shine to them, they almost look like the kind of shine that two cherries tools have. Is that just the photo are do you give them a special treatment?

I do clean the rust off of them and use fine sandpaper. Other than that, nothing special. I do wipe them down with a furniture polish/oil. It might be just the lighting in the shop.

jim

[george wilson]

The harder apple is best. The thing most difficult to find is apple without those brown streaks in it,for making nice saw handles.

[David Weaver]

George - where do or did you generally get your apple?

When I was growing up in south central PA, i lived near a lot of orchards - a LOT of orchards - just under 30 square miles worth of them according to google.

They used to tip the trees when they stopped producing and burn them. I don't know that I was paying enough attention to remember, but I don't think much of it was ever even cut up for firewood - if it was, it was after the trees were down for a long time. Maybe they have a consumer for it now, I don't know..I don't live near there any longer. We burned wood, but there was no shortage of good straight easy-to-split red oak, so we never begged any of the apple.

but I'd love to go through some of those old large trees right after they're tipped and take some trunk sections so that I could quarter them. There just isn't much on the trees that seems like it would make suitable lumber - a very short main stem, and a lot of twisting.

[john brenton]

at least if you ever decide you don't like the handle you could use it to smoke some pork butt.

[george wilson]

I don't have a lot of apple. There is an old,falling down orchard in the area,though I can't recall exactly where it is. haven't been around it since 1982. When we were making the 18th.C. fire engine,an artist we hired to make an exhibit of building the engine lived next to this orchard.

I have half of a smallish log that another craftsman gave me when he was moving,and trying to lighten his load. It was roughly split in half,and I'm not sure if it would yield pieces wide enough for crosscut saw size handles.

[David Weaver]

George, I'd bet most logs wouldn't. I can't remember what I typed above, and I'm too lazy to look, but I lucked into two QS billets that were large and without the streaks you mention - and no sapwood even though they're probably 5-6 inches wide and 3"+ thick. I also have some apple plane billets that are 4" wide and 8/4 thickness, also QS. The sawyer for the plane billets wasn't able to get enough wood to do the whole billets without sapwood (I wasn't that excited to see that when I got them).

I'll bet the vast majority of suitable apple is sized more like the small billets I have - the former mentioned above must've been from a huge tree, and it was wet as a gym sock when I got it, but it's good stuff. Wet drying apple requires some attention to stop the checking from going deep, though, but I have no doubt it will age well, and it works like a dream with a rasp - very little chipout, not brittle, but still very hard.

[george wilson]

When I was in my late teens,there was a pear tree in a neighborhood not far from our house that must have been 2' in diameter at the base. I always wanted to get that wood!!!

Somehow,the old tool makers managed to find large,clear apple for their best grade saw handles.

I'd like to find some nice,straight lemon wood to make a bow of. There must be plenty of nice citrus trees in Florida.

I remember when we came out of Alaska when I was 17,we stopped to visit my grandmother. There was a big orchard next door. It was a thrill for me to climb up in a tree and eat a grapefruit! Those trees were fairly large if I recall correctly.

[Rick Markham]

George, there used to be a whole lot more citrus orchards in Florida than there are now... or so I am told, (I have only lived here 9 years) quite a bit in the time I have been here are now housing developments. As far as some of the Orchards around this area, the trees never get really very big, I assume when they produce less they are removed and replaced. Even the old orchards that are around the trees seem to be no bigger than 8" to 10" in diameter at the base of the trunk (I'm probably being generous too) Not real sure what is done with the trees when they remove them.

I could have asked a friend who's family has been in the citrus business for several generations, unfortunately, by some poor choices on his part, he passed away several months ago. Unfortunately I did not meet the rest of his family so I can't ask them.

[Tony Shea]

I've actually go some apple logs sitting around in my shop waiting for me to quarter up. I left them around 3'-4' long so I could get some smallish boards out of them. But I am concerned with the checking happening that I just can't seem to prevent. What's the best way to control checking in log form, or is there? Should I quater them up and then try to control the checking. I have about 4 logs of the trunk with the largest one around 2.5' diameter. It seems to have a decent amount of beautiful pinkish heartwood. This is an apple that I had to take down as a porccupine made its' bark his source of food all winter long last year and did some significant damage. It was very old anyways with some limbs starting to die and split off so I just took it at the beginning of the summer. I've shaped a handle for a small plane hammer out of one of its' limbs that I cut last summer and really enjoyed the feel of the wood under my spokeshave. Really is nothing like working with air dryed wood. It seems pretty hard, about that of maple.

A lot of the apple trees around here are smallish with very little in the way of a trunk. They branch out fast and seem to twist all over. There are some wild apple trees that get huge but are tough to come by. I have a few on my property but would not want to take them as they are great places for the partridge to hang out in during bird season. They also keep the deer and bear around which I very much enjoy keeping on my property even though I would never hunt those animals. I would love to come by a good stock of apple as lately I've been very interested in fruit woods. Just difficult in these parts to come by.

[Harlan Barnhart]

In Georgia, where I was born, and where my parents still live, they have many wild pear trees. The local name for them is "sand pear" because the fruit is very grainy, a little like eating sand. Does anyone know if the wood from those trees is valuable? If so, I might have my Dad keep his eye open for some.

[Mark Wyatt]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=404&pictureid=3847We recently took down a pear tree in our back yard. I saved this section of trunk for some unknown future project.



http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=404&pictureid=3847http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=404&pictureid=3847 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=404&pictureid=3847)

[george wilson]

That is a nice log!!!

[Andrew Gibson]

I agree with Rick about the orange groves. They are shrinking up. I currently live in the middle of groves. None of the trees seem to be bigger then 6" at the base. One grove down the street was removed and replanted this year and none of the trees in it were bigger then maybe 8" that I could see. I think to find big citrus at this point you would have to find a private tree, which I'm sure are out there, or get lucky and find an old grove that got sold but not pushed down and burnt.

[george wilson]

So,are the fruits coming from Mexico now? Not China,I hope.

[Rick Markham]

George, I would harbor a guess for ya... (it is mostly a guess) I would honestly think the bulk of domestic citrus production is California, I think it has been that way for quite some time. There are still a substantial number of groves here, but I believe it is commercial farming as opposed to the family farm that it used to be. I think most family farms have long sold their groves for real estate.

I am also guessing that the trees only produce large quantities of fruit when they are a certain "younger" age. So commercial farming removes them once they are past their peak age. I think another issue in size has largely to do with the fact that they are still picked by hand. When it is time the migrant workers go through the groves with their big canvas bags and ladders (it looks like a horrible back breaking job) So a tree that is too tall, isn't beneficial because the top will never get picked.

There are a ton of oranges that are grown here, we have a orange juice concentrate plant here in town, and when they are squeezing the oranges it smells like orange oil :) (best smelling industry I have been near... beats the dog food plant that I grew up around) It is honestly fairly amazing the consistency of the size of the trees, from grove to grove, they never seem to differ too much.

As for lemons, limes and grapefruit, all the trees seem to look almost exactly like the orange trees, the only way I can tell is what color the fruit that grows on them. But once again... I am no citrus expert. If my parent's blood orange tree ever blows down, I will save you a big hunk of the trunk ;) Man, those are the best oranges... blood oranges :)

[Andrew Gibson]

Up the street from me is Saint Leo University. The Monks that live in the Abby have a couple groves. None of the trees are particularly larger then the other groves, however when it is time to pick the fruit volunteers come to pick. It is a stark contrast to the "professional" pickers that migrate through during picking season. It's rather funny to see middle aged men and women picking oranges in polo shirts and slacks.

I graduated form St Leo so I saw this a few times.
The smell of an orange grove in fill bloom is almost sickeningly sweet, and lasts a good 2 weeks.

[Rick Markham]

Yeah, Andrew it is my favorite couple of times a year when the groves are in bloom. It reminds me of the smell of some type of flower blooming when I lived in Hawaii. Consequently it smells like that almost every morning on Maui... dang I miss that. The smells are so absolutely similar they are almost indistinguishable.

[george wilson]

Darn! We missed out on going to Hawaii when we had friends living there to stay with.

[Dave Redlin]

Mr Wilson, With this freshly cut log that Mr Wyatt has....how would you proceed turning it into handles? Would you split it into billets and turn to rough shape or leave it in the log to dry?

Thanks,
Dave

[george wilson]

The log will split open if it isn't cut into pieces. Then,dip the ends into wax,or thoroughly paint it. Leave it 1 inch per year of thickness to dry. Don't take it into a heated place to dry,or it will split too much from accelerated drying. You could get away by doing this with smaller pieces,like for chisel handles.

3" thick=3 years drying. Then,I'd have it in my heated shop for several months just to be sure.

Do not leave the wood on the ground to dry. It will spalt for sure. Put it in a VENTILATED lawn building,or under a car port,even better. Get it up off the ground,covered with plastic,but allow air to ventilate it to avoid excessive Summer heat. Closed up lawn buildings get way too hot in Summer,and would be worse that a heated room. Saw it up and put spacers between the planks when you stack it up.

Splitting it is tricky. It might split unevenly,or in a spiral,and you'll waste most of the log. I'd try to saw it,even if only with a chain saw. Bandsaw is better.

[Rick Markham]

George, if you ever get the chance to go, it is really an amazing place... smells like flowers, almost no humidity, 75 degrees at night 85 in the day +or- 3 degrees year round. Amazing culture as well, the Hawaiian people are wonderful folks. Plenty of wonderful craftsman as well! Pretty amazing walking through a bamboo forest too... I wish while I was there I would have thought about getting some Koa, and local lumber... the thought never crossed my mind, I was too busy cooking

[Jim Koepke]

I would harbor a guess for ya... (it is mostly a guess) I would honestly think the bulk of domestic citrus production is California,

I think there is a lot of citrus in Arizona also.

jim

[Dave Matson]

I don't know much about oranges but much of the apple juice available in stores is labeled as being from overseas from places like, China, Turkey and Argentina. I grew up in sebastopol, in sonoma county, california. It used to be a big apple growing region but many of the orchards have been ripped out in the last 20 years in favor of grapes (wonder if vine wood turns well). :mad: I still try to buy juice from sonoma county but it can be hard to find.
My parent's property was part of a large orchard that was broken up into parcels so there are still plenty of apple trees on it. Every time I go home I raid my mom's firewood pile as the trees are slowly falling down after being hollowed out by termites.
To speed up drying, one can chuck logs in the lathe to debark them before waxing the ends. Its gorgeous wood, especially the pieces with mixed amber heartwood and blonde sapwood. The janka hardness rating is listed as 1730, harder than most domestic species and it smells sweet when its worked. There are many affordable blanks on ebay if anyone is interested in acquiring some.

[Dave Redlin]

Thanks for the help! Appreciate the information!

Dave

QUOTE=george wilson;1499612]The log will split open if it isn't cut into pieces. Then,dip the ends into wax,or thoroughly paint it. Leave it 1 inch per year of thickness to dry. Don't take it into a heated place to dry,or it will split too much from accelerated drying. You could get away by doing this with smaller pieces,like for chisel handles.

3" thick=3 years drying. Then,I'd have it in my heated shop for several months just to be sure.

Do not leave the wood on the ground to dry. It will spalt for sure. Put it in a VENTILATED lawn building,or under a car port,even better. Get it up off the ground,covered with plastic,but allow air to ventilate it to avoid excessive Summer heat. Closed up lawn buildings get way too hot in Summer,and would be worse that a heated room. Saw it up and put spacers between the planks when you stack it up.

Splitting it is tricky. It might split unevenly,or in a spiral,and you'll waste most of the log. I'd try to saw it,even if only with a chain saw. Bandsaw is better.[/QUOTE]

[george wilson]

In response to the post about taking the bark off: Yes,I forgot to mention taking the bark off is an excellent idea. I was visualizing sawing the log into planks,where the bark would be gone when I wrote my post.

A forestry agent here several years ago said he had discovered a thin layer under the bark which was as waterproof as Saran wrap,which keeps the water in live trees. Removing this layer would definitely help the drying process.

[Steve Branam]

Here in Massachusetts, the trend is toward dwarf apple trees. Apparently they produce as many apples per tree, but they can get more trees in the same space. I think the tree maintenance is easier too, trimming small branches rather than bigger heavier ones.

I got some trunk sections from a nearby orchard where they were removing some rows of older trees to replace with dwarf species. I'm still in the process of processing some of them, if I haven't neglected them for too long.

[Rick Markham]

Here in Massachusetts, the trend is toward dwarf apple trees. Apparently they produce as many apples per tree, but they can get more trees in the same space. I think the tree maintenance is easier too, trimming small branches rather than bigger heavier ones.

I got some trunk sections from a nearby orchard where they were removing some rows of older trees to replace with dwarf species. I'm still in the process of processing some of them, if I haven't neglected them for too long.

That's probably what is happening, they are most likely a hybrid that stays short and gets "full" with branches, combined with trimming the tops keeps them that way :)