finial height

[patrick michael stein]

to all ,

how do you determine the height of the finial in comparision to the form?

if you have a ten inch by five inch hollowform what would be the correct height for the finial.could you use the one third too thirds method?




thanks patrick:)

[John Keeton]

Patrick, I suspect you are going to get a variety of answers on this one.

I have violated every rule out there on finials - some work, some don't. I think there are many considerations, including the color scheme, the visual mass of a piece, the weight, the actual form/lift of the piece, what you are trying to achieve in the 'feel' of a piece, the form of the finial, the amount of detail in the finial, etc.

On the last finial piece I did, the form was 2.5" high, and the finial rose off the form 3.25". It seemed to be well accepted, with several positive comments on the finial proportions.

So, finding a hard and fast rule is difficult. I have most all of my pieces planned before hand, and many of them sketched to scale. That is where I make my decision on proportions. Much easier with paper, pencil and eraser!:) But, I realize I am outside the norm on that one!

[David E Keller]

I suspect you know that there are no 'right' answers to this question. What I've started to do is place a block of wood on top of the form to get a feel for what looks right to me... I use old pen blank cutoffs that I have in an infinite number of sizes. Some are obviously too tall or too short. When I find a length that I think I like, I go with it.

To some degree you can enhance or lessen the visual impact of the finial with material choice, size, detailing, etc. I would take heart in the knowledge that everyone I know of that turns finials has a stash of finished finials that didn't make the cut for their intended pieces. In other words, if you don't like the one you've made, make another.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Much easier with paper, pencil and eraser..."

Boy ain't that the truth! On the other hand, if my many years of building houses, cabinetry, furniture and architectural woodwork only taught me one thing, it's this. "The plan" should never be confused with the tablets Moses brought down from the mountain. I always tried to view "the plan" as more of a "guideline". The thing is, things have a way of emerging in the most unexpected ways, no matter what the scale of the project may be. Often you "see" something along the way that was unexpected but irresistible. At those times, you have to be ready and willing to deviate from or even completely abandon "the plan". These often seem like moments of divine inspiration, a gift, as it were from a higher source and can cause you to take off in a whole new direction. I suspect that JK knows exactly what I am talking about...

[patrick michael stein]

thanks john,


for me skechting is out of the question lol cant draw skecht only hands on no art in my background or forground for that matter.I try to picture what it will look like .its harder to visualize the shapes for me this way but so is life i guess.




thanks
patrick:p

[John Hart]

This is an easy question. I start out with a fairly tall design. Then when that breaks, I modify to a little shorter. Then when that breaks, I work on a knobby thing. Then I throw it away and make a vase mouth. We need harder questions. :D

[John Keeton]

...moments of divine inspiration, a gift, as it were from a higher source and can cause you to take off in a whole new direction. I suspect that JK knows exactly what I am talking about...That I do, David, that I do!!!:D;) Most times, the plan works, but I am not at all adverse to ceasing those inspirational moments - sometimes they are the ones that make the piece special.

Patrick, I would encourage you to spend a lot of time viewing the works of others whom you admire as artists, and that produce the type of turnings that appeal to you. The varieties are endless, and each artist does have their own style - some may appeal to you, some not. But, all will educate you!

Something that may help you is to rough turn 3-4 finials, in about 1/2" increments. They would not need to be completely finished, but turned down to near finished size. Perhaps start at 2", 2.5, 3, 3.5. You can use those to hold up to various forms to find what works for you. Even a slender piece of wood of the same tone as you intend to use for the finial would help.

Again, color makes a difference. A white holly finial, turned to the same dimensions as an ebony one, will appear much heavier.

[John Keeton]

This is an easy question. I start out with a fairly tall design. Then when that breaks, I modify to a little shorter. Then when that breaks, I work on a knobby thing. Then I throw it away and make a vase mouth. We need harder questions. :DJohn, that makes so much more sense than starting with a short one!!:D

[David DeCristoforo]

"This is an easy question. I start out with a fairly tall design. Then when that breaks, I modify to a little shorter. Then when that breaks, I work on a knobby thing. Then I throw it away and make a vase mouth. We need harder questions"

http://www.daviddecristoforo.com/Misc/rofl.gif

[John Hart]

John, that makes so much more sense than starting with a short one!!:D


I'm smart that way. :)

Well....after some trial and error. :o

[David E Keller]

This is an easy question. I start out with a fairly tall design. Then when that breaks, I modify to a little shorter. Then when that breaks, I work on a knobby thing. Then I throw it away and make a vase mouth. We need harder questions. :D

Classic Hart response! Even my wife laughed out loud when I read it to her, and she doesn't even turn.

[William Hutchinson]

This is an easy question. I start out with a fairly tall design. Then when that breaks, I modify to a little shorter. Then when that breaks, I work on a knobby thing. Then I throw it away and make a vase mouth. We need harder questions. :D

I adhere to the Hart Design method. My last modified finial looked like this--
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/Turnings/th_MapleBurlHFa8-10-10-1.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/wlhutch/Turnings/MapleBurlHFa8-10-10-1.jpg)

[patrick michael stein]

thanks john hart,


thats what i needed to the point lol.




patrick

[Curt Fuller]

First, in my view of things, the perfect finial usually has more to do with its own proportions. If it's too tall for its girth, if it's too short for its girth, it just isn't going to look right regardless of the proportion to the piece it's sitting on. How that's achieved is still a mystery to me though.

But here's a question that I start pondering every year about this time. I turn a lot of Christmas ornaments. So why can that long, curvy, pointy thing we call an icicle on an ornament look great hanging upside down but be hideous standing up as a finial would stand?

[Andy Hoyt]

Spend some time researching the wonderment found within the Golden Mean (http://www.google.com/search?q=Golden+Mean&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

[Ken Glass]

Patrick,
One of the best explanations of how to, I have ever heard, and try to follow, is in Cindy Drozda's video "The Finial Star." She believes there is a formula for proportion that should be followed most times with, I might add, some exception. She talks about it in depth including drawings on a chalk board in easy to understand terms, which most times my feeble mind desperately needs.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ken beat me to it and I agree with him that Cindy Drozda's DVD explains how she approaches making a finial. I try to follow her method and it works pretty well.

[Mark Hubl]

One third two third, Golden Mean, ask the wife, copy Keaton. These all are great suggestions, but ultimately I find myself using the Hart method. For me making the perfect finial on the first attempt is somewhat unfullfilling.:D I think the creative language and dance I use after the first iteration self destructs (well not self) really gets the artistic juices flowing, but that's just me.

[Frank Van Atta]

A great way to do this is PhotoShop, or some equivalent. Here's how:

Take a picture of the hollow form/vase/whatever and a picture of a finial - either one you've finished or a picture of one "borrowed" from the internet.

Transpose the finial picture on top of the form. If you don't like it, then transform/stretch it (the finial picture) and try again. Or get another finial picture. Try several. Eventually you'll find something you like. Then make the finial or use the one you took the picture of.

This enables you to see height, width, color, and overall design of the finial at the same time.

It's more than worth the time and effort to learn to do this in one of the photo editing or drawing programs. Perhaps the easiest to use is Microsoft Paint, which comes free with the operating system. You can easily cut and paste a picture into it and then stretch/skew it to your heart's content.