Best Router Table Fence

[Alan Lightstone]

I'm purchasing a Peachtree cast iron router table wing for my Sawstop contractors saw. I'm looking for suggestions for a good router table fence for it.

Peachtree has their supreme fence, and Kreg, Incra, MLCS, et al all have their fences.

What are people's favorites, and why. Suggestions????

[Van Huskey]

My favorite is the Incra, but the Jessem with the Masterslide is a close second.

[Will Blick]

First, what functions do you want the fence to perform?

Edge shaping, very simple low cost fence is all that is required...

jointing? split fence is highly reccomended (but can be done with shims if you have the patience)

Tall pieces? Incra has a tall add-on that works well...

Dust collection important? Woodpecker, Incra do well....

Positioning requirements for spaced joinery? Incra and jointech, seem to excel in this area...

I have quite a few... a good dust collector, and general useful fence that can be set up for most tasks is Woodpecker Super Fence...

http://www.woodpeck.com/media/main_PRF-Beauty-BackView.jpg

[Matt Armstrong]

I gave in an built my own, which you'll hear from lots of people. I didn't want to bother with the hassle, but ultimately my router fence is awesome! It is big and heavy, made with 3/4" MDF, uses a 4" dust port for excellent dust collection, has moveable UHMW fences, and could be adapted for zero-clearance insert operations.

And it looks ghetto and hangs on my wall when not in use. I also built my own router table, which was surprisingly rewarding. Initially thought i should get a precision router lift, but I've been getting along with the woodpecker aluminum plate.

[Dave Houseal]

I have a jointech and I just actually used it for the first time a couple days ago. I think I'm really gonna love this fence. I'm hoping to try and figure out how to do the dovetails and box joints and such over the weekend, though I'm just going to be happy with a fence that has micro adjust regardless of the other stuff the jointech is supposed to do.

I have an older model that is "new to me" but this is close

http://www.jointech.com/woodworking1.htm

[glenn bradley]

I've used the old original style Rockler fence for years. I do a lot of different things on my router table and it has done 99 out of 100 things I require. Cheap, basic and reliable. . . there are some sweet $100+ fences out there though ;-)

Must have's for me:

- dust collection capability
- split faces to straddle bits
- method to hold stop blocks, featherboards, bit guard, etc.
- reliable 90* to the table
- easy setup and repeatable adjustments

[Jamie Ray]

One of the best fences available is a 2x4, properly jointed, and a couple of clamps to hold it to the table.

[Alan Lightstone]

The Incra looks very interesting, especially the LS positioner. But how can you mount the positioner with a cast iron table? Do you have to drill into the cast iron to mount bolts? If so, that would severely limit the table saw fence and be a non-starter.

Is there another mounting system for the base of the positioner?

[keith micinski]

For the Incra you would drill and tap 4 holes in the cast iron top about 20 inches from the edge. The base can then be bolted down quickly and easily. I am going to get some sort of a thumb screw though and when not in use can just be taken off.

[keith micinski]

Here's the manual. http://www.incra.com/manuals/ls_manual.pdf

[Alan Lightstone]

I found this in the FAQs for the Incra. I'm going to call them to doublecheck, but they're suggesting using plywood and a miter slider:

The oval top section of the positioner’s base can be removed from the T-slotted sub base. This oval section can then be attached to a piece of good-quality 3/4” plywood and then mounted in a variety of ways.
A wooden router table encourages using knobs through the plywood threaded into T-nuts inserted into the underside of the router table. For a cast iron table saw top, an INCRA Miter Slider can be attached to the bottom of the plywood platform, and then the Miter Slider can lock the plywood platform and LS positioner into the saw’s miter slot where it can be used with the router table.

[keith micinski]

It seems to me it would be a lot easier to just drill and tap 4 1/4-20 holes. The miter slider seems like it leaves room for movement. Plus I have never measured how far the mitre slot is away. You are limiting your travel if the slot iscless then the 20 inches. If you plane on keeping all of this stuff which the four holes aren't a big deal and then you have everything set perfectly every time you mount it.

[Jerome Hanby]

You could go whole hog and buy the Incra Joinery system (I think that's what it's called). Get one of the packages that has everything except the router table wing. That would give you the super duper positioning for the saw and router as well as all that Iron Man Mk II armor coloring. If you have room, one of the options include 90+ inch rails and support legs! Plus support for all the cool Incra joinery templates.

[Alan Lightstone]

Never tried drilling and tapping cast iron. Is it a big deal?

Also, it would involve drilling and tapping the main table of the Sawstop, not the extension tables. Not warm and fuzzy with that idea.

The far miter slot would be about 20" away from the router. I would think that locking miter slots would be necessary, otherwise there would be some slop. Plus, one more jig to have to take off, put on, etc...

[Alan Lightstone]

You could go whole hog and buy the Incra Joinery system (I think that's what it's called). Get one of the packages that has everything except the router table wing. That would give you the super duper positioning for the saw and router as well as all that Iron Man Mk II armor coloring. If you have room, one of the options include 90+ inch rails and support legs! Plus support for all the cool Incra joinery templates.

Looked at those. They demand a huge amount of space to the right of the saw, which I don't have. Also, not sure how much of an upgrade that fence would be over the Biesenmeyer type fence that comes with the Sawstop.

[keith micinski]

I agree that drilling into the top is a lot less desirable then drilling into a wing but that having been said if it is a sawstop then you are obviuosly planning on keeping this saw for the long haul so what's four small holes in the top to you? Drilling and tapping cast is very easy. All you need is a 13/64 th's drill bit or a number 7 drill bit and a quarter twenty tap. Use lots of lube when drilling and tapping and it should be fine. The only other thing I could think of is one of those magnetic hold downs. Those things are very stable and would give you the ease of off and on and you wouldn't have to drill anything. The nice thing about the magnet is that you can then place it wherever you want. I have a few feather boards that use the locking mitre slot thing and I just don't know if I would trust that to do some of the fine things you can do with the Incra system.

[Jerome Hanby]

Seems like I've seen that positioner mounted on a board and clamped to a router table when needed. Since the alignment is not critical (since it's always a round cutter), seems like the worst thing is you would have to do is re-zero every time you mounted it. I bet you could adapt that method to clamp it to your sawstop...

[Alan Lightstone]

Just got off the phone with a really nice guy from Incra Tech Support. He suggested placing the LS positioner on the far right side of the table saw extension, with the router table cast iron extension table to the left of that, between the table saw blade and the extension table. There should barely be enough room for that (and I could always replace my Sawstop extension table with a home built one a few inches wider.) He suggested counterboring holes and letting the nuts drop down when the unit is removed (which will only be necessary for wide board rip cuts).

Would it be awkward to use the router table extension on the right side with the fence outboard of the bit? Conventional feeding would be away from you (like with the table saw). Anything that would have to be fed in the opposite direction would be a pain.

What do you guys think about the placement there?

[keith micinski]

That sounds like trouble having your router insert inboard. I really don't know how that would even work and I don't see any real advantage to it. Also I don't know why you would want to replace your saw stop cast iron wing with a home made wood one. Having bolts in the table doesn't sound like a good solution either. You wouldn't be able to counter sink the cast iron enough for the bolts to drop down plus you would have to reach under the table to tighten them which also sounds like a hassle.

[Alan Lightstone]

So I take it that inboard is an unusual configuration for the router table on a table saw (that's what I thought as well). The Incra rep said that he prefers that configuration as you typically feed wood from front to back like with the table saw.

[keith micinski]

Every one likes different techniques to do things but I would say that inboard mounted router table is not what most people feel comfortable with. You might but I doubt it because when I use my router table I like to actually start feeding the piece and then move to the front of the router table so that I have better control over both ends and I am closer to the bit so I can see what's going on.

[Homer Faucett]

Looked at those. They demand a huge amount of space to the right of the saw, which I don't have. Also, not sure how much of an upgrade that fence would be over the Biesenmeyer type fence that comes with the Sawstop.

I don't know about your space limitations, but I bought my Sawstop without the Bies clone, and added an Incra TSLS with an outboard router table. The positioner floats between the rails, and you can move the positioner on the 32" model to allow longer than 32" cuts on your table saw (by shifting my rails right, I can get more than 48", which is all I need). To use the fence for the router, I just flip the positioner to move in the opposite direction.

The only difference between the standard LS and the TS-LS is the fact that the TS-LS has the rails, the floating positioner, and a 32" bar that would stick out instead of a 17" bar.

Whether it's an upgrade over a Bies clone is purely subjective, and depends on the type of work you do. I like the repeatability of the TS-LS, and it served double duty for me. Good luck in making your decision.

[James Malcolm]

Seems to me the miter slider idea is preferable to pretty much anything. Miter slot can be at any location. It is underneath a plywood sheet that the incra is screwed to. You can tighten down the slider so that there is zero slop and you can remove and replace it at any time without making any adjustments. You may need to improve your miter slot by sanding down the high spots, but the SS I hear is pretty good. It makes a huge difference. Remember the Incra takes up a huge amount of space since it is ideally at the end of it's extension when the fence is maybe a little past the bit centerline, but you can mount it in close if you don't care about using the available travel. If you used the miter slot, you could even get away with their lowest end non-adjusting model.

But really an Incra positioner is completely seperate from the fence. Sure their high end fence is very, very nice. Probably the best on the market. Grizzly has just the incra ultra positioner for $80. I picked one up and use it with that Woodpecker Superfence. I like it so far, very nice fence.

If I was going to do it again, I would build my own and integrate an Incra miter gauge fence extrusion to gain the micropositioning travel stop. A friend has got me thinking production so something like that would be very handy. I'd trade you a Woodpecker Superfence for the supplies I would need to make my own, but it may come out to more :D

[James Malcolm]

I went and looked at mine and I must retract some of what I said. The distance from the miter slot to the bit directly affects your travel. The plywood panel must extent to this point and therefore the work piece cannot extend past this unless you extend the plywood past the bit and make a sub-table out of it. And if your fence does not have a height adjustable face, you cannot move the backside of fence past the miter slot. On most any router table alone it would be useless to try to use the miter slot as the slots are 8" or so from the bit unless you made a sub-table. With an extension table, you would need to use the TS miter slot. As such, you would be forced to work off the end from the back side of the saw. This would not work in my arrangement.

[Rich Bygness]

I have read that a lot of you don't think that keeping the fence square with the table, or t-track, or anything else is at all important. My concern is when I am using a relatively large Freud bit to make baseboard trim, I need to take of just a little bit at a time. I have the Kreg PRS 1040 Precision router table system including the micro adjuster. The problem I have is that even with the left side knob loosened, if I move the right side of the fence 1/16" back, the left side does not move an equal distance unless I put a square to it to make it square with the table, so I am not actually taking an extra 1/16" off the workpiece. Will the Incra, Jessem or other fence move the entire fence equally the same distance? I am also wondering which fence would be most adaptable to the Kreg router table. Thanks for any helpful recommendations.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Grizzly has just the incra ultra positioner for $80. I picked one up and use it with that Woodpecker Superfence. I like it so far, very nice fence.

James - Do you have their product # for that positioner ? I can't find it on their website, and did not know you could buy just the positioner.

thanks !

[Kelly Colin Mark]

I have read that a lot of you don't think that keeping the fence square with the table, or t-track, or anything else is at all important. My concern is when I am using a relatively large Freud bit to make baseboard trim, I need to take of just a little bit at a time. I have the Kreg PRS 1040 Precision router table system including the micro adjuster. The problem I have is that even with the left side knob loosened, if I move the right side of the fence 1/16" back, the left side does not move an equal distance unless I put a square to it to make it square with the table, so I am not actually taking an extra 1/16" off the workpiece. Will the Incra, Jessem or other fence move the entire fence equally the same distance? I am also wondering which fence would be most adaptable to the Kreg router table. Thanks for any helpful recommendations.

The Incra will always move the entire fence one distance , as long as the assembly is properly aligned to the router bit, because the entire fence is mounted to the single positioner. If using the Wonder Fence, this means that both sides will always move the same distance, and if one side is offset to the other, both sides of the fence will still move the same distance, and the offset will be retained afterwards - because both sides of the WF are attached to the main fence.

The Jessem has scales on both sides of the table. Therefore, moving both sides of the fence the same distance should be as simple as positioning both sides on the same mark. However, it is not as drop-dead simple as the Incra - as moving one side will inevitably affect the other side, etc.

[Rich Bygness]

The Incra will always move the entire fence one distance , as long as the assembly is properly aligned to the router bit, because the entire fence is mounted to the single positioner. If using the Wonder Fence, this means that both sides will always move the same distance, and if one side is offset to the other, both sides of the fence will still move the same distance, and the offset will be retained afterwards - because both sides of the WF are attached to the main fence.

The Jessem has scales on both sides of the table. Therefore, moving both sides of the fence the same distance should be as simple as positioning both sides on the same mark. However, it is not as drop-dead simple as the Incra - as moving one side will inevitably affect the other side, etc.

Would I have to buy both the Wonder Fence and also a positioner, or does a positioner come with the fence?

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Rich - I answered your question about positioning both sides equally without thinking too carefully. It turns out it doesn't really matter whether your fence is parallel to, say, the router table front or not - no matter how it is positioned, the router bit will always cut a path parallel to the surface you have against the fence. When I first figured that out, I found it to be very counter-intuitive and I still wrestle with that notion.

Having said that, when using a positioning guide (e.g. Incra or scales) I'm pretty sure that accurately positioning the axis of fence movement relative to the center of the bit is important. If the axis the fence moves through does not pass through the center of the bit, I think differential measurements on the scale may not actually equal the realized movement relative to the bit.


Would I have to buy both the Wonder Fence and also a positioner, or does a positioner come with the fence?

The "basic" Incra LS positioner comes with the positioner and a fence. The Wonder Fence is an add-on to that, sometimes included in certain packages. If you go to Lee Valley's website, and search for the Incra LS Positioner for $293 (in Canadian prices) comes with the "basic" fence. I hesitate to call the former package "basic", especially when people make out with 2x4s. For $409, LV has a package that includes the Wonder Fence. The Wonder Fence includes the dust port, the ability to offset the two fence halves by different amounts, and probably something else I am forgetting.

[Rich Bygness]

I saw what you were talking about on the Lee Valley site. I think it is around $275 US on Amazon. I also understand your logic of the physics of the position of the fence relative to the router bit--like you said, it is not as straight forward in measurement increments as say a table saw fence. My "concrete/sequential" brain (I used to be a math teacher) tells me that if I move the fence on my Kreg router table 1/16" (the hold down and measurements are on the right side of the table), the bit should take off 1/16" more from the workpiece, but if the opposite end of the fence does not follow that same 1/16" inch movement, I really couldn't know if I was taking off exactly that much material from the wood. The way I have been compensating is to loosen the left hold down, move the right side of the fence, then use a square to make sure the left side is moved an equal distance. I probably have all the master woodworkers that use a 2 x 4 for their fence shaking their heads about now, but their experience allows them to get the precise results they want in a much simpler manner I am sure. I don't know if I want to shell out another big chunk of money on top of the cost of my Kreg table and fence system, so I may just take a step back and ponder my options for a while. Thanks for your response and ideas to think about.

[ian maybury]

There's some very useful capability on the Incra Wonder fence (the jointing set up and so on) - in addition to what the positioner delivers. (repeatable vey high accuracy positioning of the fence) The problem a lot of us probably have is that we've used mostly one type of fence and not the others - so it's hard to make clear comparisons. I've been dead pleased with mine, but was relatively new to router tables when i bought it and can't compare it to e.g. the more traditional types.

There's quite a few layout possibilities with the Incra system when it's fitted on a table saw. Drilling and tapping a cast iron table is easy, but it'd be a bummer to end up changing your mind after testing it - and finding you needed to drill more holes.

There's drawings of layout options in the various Incra product manuals which can be downloaded from the Incremental Tools website. The marketing videos (if a little slick for my taste) show a variety of different layouts in action too - an to my surprise don't seem to exaggerate the capability of the product. These are good prompts/education - but there's no substitute for lots of careful thinking through of the logistics of the sort of jobs you do, and figuring out how you would use each layout in those cases. Maybe get to look at a similar set up too if you can.

Mark Mueller at Incremental Tools is a really helpful guy who knows the practicalities of using the products very well (it may have been him you spoke to) - and more to the point will take the time to walk you through it and address your questions.

The important issue on any of these combined set ups (router table on the saw in this case) is always i guess (a) how often is the sequence of work such that switching between the router and the saw, or different operations on either will force losing a set up that will be needed again, and (b) if it is required to lift the Icra positioner and reposition it on the rails at times does this disturb the set up/or does the carriage reposition accurately. Others with experience may comment on on this.

I thought of a combo, but in the end went for a stand alone router set up on an Incra support frame, and fitted a separate TS LS on my Hammer panel saw. The decision was easy because the panel saw with 8'x4' capability was too wide to fit in my shop and tack a router table on the end. (the positioner hangs out quite a distance when the fence is fully retracted)

One final thought. The Incra positioner can be used to position a rip fence on your saw, or as a positioner for router operations. One point to bear in mind about this is that the latter (the router set up) is actually much less demanding of precision. In that the fence only has to repeatably hold a set distance from the cutter. Used as a rip fence it not only has to control the distance from the saw blade, it also has to control the alignment of the fence so that toe out relative to the blade is controlled to within a range of a few thou. My separate set ups manage both tasks very well, but it's going to be tougher to pull off on a combo where the fence and carriage require frequent removal and repositioning. Which isn't to say that it doesn't achieve it...

Just some thoughts...

ian

[Brian Brightwell]

A picture would be nice.

[Brian Brightwell]

Link is not working for me. I too have the Jointech fence, send me a PM if you learn to make joints on it. I never have.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

My "concrete/sequential" brain (I used to be a math teacher) tells me that if I move the fence on my Kreg router table 1/16" (the hold down and measurements are on the right side of the table), the bit should take off 1/16" more from the workpiece, but if the opposite end of the fence does not follow that same 1/16" inch movement, I really couldn't know if I was taking off exactly that much material from the wood.

The notion that you have to move both sides of the fence equally is indeed hard to get one's head around. I think the reason that it is confusing is that the fence adopts different angles relative to the table's edges, when what is really important is whether or not it is possible to have the fence adopt different angles relative to a circle (while maintaining a fixed distance).

Here's an exercise. Imagine a straight-edge (could be your desktop edge) as a fence, and take something circular (coffee cup lid, quarter, etc) and put it some fixed distance away from that edge - say, 2". Now try to vary the position of the circle relative to your edge, while holding the distance constant. You'll see there is no way to meaningfully change the geometry of the two - the position of the circle may move along the edge, but as long as the distance is kept constant, any object that moves along that edge will always cross the circle in the same way. You can take a third object (say, a playing card) and move it along the edge to convince yourself.

The other thing you can do is this: follow your normal procedure to make sure both ends move the same distance, then cut a dado. Take a marker and color in the dado. Then move the fence however you choose, while keeping the minimal bit-to-fence distance constant. Now run the same piece through. You should find that the bit passes through exactly the same path.

This is not true if the axis of the positioner does not pass through the center of your bit.

Having said all that, if you're using the scales on your fence, and want to cut say a dado 1/16" wider, then the easiest way to do this is just to move both ends of the fence 1/16" according to your scales - although you could just move and measure from bit to fence again.

[Kelly Colin Mark]

Mark Mueller at Incremental Tools is a really helpful guy who knows the practicalities of using the products very well (it may have been him you spoke to) - and more to the point will take the time to walk you through it and address your questions.ian

+1 on Mark Mueller's helpfulness. I've inquired a few times with Incra and have always gotten very helpful responses , always from him.

Anyone know if he's the demo guy on the YouTube videos ?

[Rich Bygness]

Thanks for the mental image of the relationship of the fence to the router bit. I understand the geometry of how that works, but I still come back to my original issue which was the need to take small "bites" out of my workpiece when using large router bits. Setting the fence at the final depth on the first pass would be a dangerous approach (cut off too much wood in one pass might make the workpiece difficult to control). I think I may have stumbled upon a surprising solution. When I first started putting my woodworking shop together, I bought an an old, handmade router table. It turns out that it had the old original incra fence positioner that has been reintroduced by incra: http://www.incra.com/product_rtf_ij32.htm

I am in the process of attaching it to my Kreg router table/fence system. That will allow me to move the fence incrementally farther back to get a specific increase in depth of cut until I get to the finish depth I want. It may be old school, but I think it will serve my need for routing deep cuts in my floorboard pieces uniformly and safely. Many thanks for everyone's input on this issue!

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Rich,

I am just guessing, but what you mention taking small bites when using a large bit, I am assuming you either do not have a bearing on the bit, or are not going to the final bearing depth. If you go to the bearing you would only have to make sure the bearing is only the smallest amount proud of the fence for the final pass. All other passes (in between) are irrelevant.

If you are not going to the bearing, have you thought about setting you final depth for the fence and raising the bit in increments instead? This is much easier with a lift but not mandatory (I am not sure how difficult it is to raise the bit in your situation).

Another scenario, assuming you are doing more than one piece, would be to make all passes on all pieces at each "fence depth". Then just do what Kelly suggested and measure from the bit for your last pass. Please do not take this the wrong way, but I think you are thinking too much into this.

However, when you mention floor (base?) boards I see where you are coming from if you have to keep coming back to a desired "fence depth" and the router bit can not move. Good luck.

[Rich Bygness]

There is no bearing on the bit. It is the Freud bit: http://www.freudtools.com/p-206-base-and-cap-bits.aspx so raising the bit would not be an option.

I will be using it on 7" high mopboard that I will cut down to about 5 1 /2" and then trim the top with the router bit. I will also have to add another short trim board at the base to get the thickness I need to get the baseboard far enough out from the wall so that it reaches the ends of the original hardwood floor boards that I refinished.

I am quite certain that I am thinking too much into this, and I realize the angle of the fence does not matter when making numerous passes before the final fence depth pass. I am planning to run each board through at each depth--it is just that I will be working with the original, 100 year old wood and don't want to ruin it by not being careful in the refinishing process--finding comparable wood today would be difficult. I am sure it will all work out fine. Thanks.