Big Bandsaw decision - help!

[Thomas Delpizzo]

OK. About 11/2 months ago I posted a thread asking opinions comparing the Grizzly 14" Go555X extreme band saw with another brand, Grizzly has their saw on sale. For $800 I get the saw, riser block and shipping. For the same $800, Rikon has a sale on their deluxe euro style 14" saw with the cast iron wheels (like the Grizz), lots of added features such as a rack and pinion guard, a hinged guard, etc. Shipping is free through Amazon. Grizz has the better fence and comes out of the box with more accurate settings (wheels coplaner, table is the flattest, etc.). For $1000 and free shipping is the Powermatic 14" deluxe saw with a free riser block. Shipping is free through Toolzone. My budget was originally set for the griz and I've been eying it for a year. This is my first bs and want to make the right decision. I think I should calm myself down and try to stay within the $800 budget. I'm a garage shop hobbyist and plan to make furniture, electric guitars and some resawing with it. They all have great write ups. I do know FFW liked the Grizz. The Rikon has been known to have problems with having flat tables. They all seem to have great trunions, guides, and 1.5 hp motors etc. Any help out there before I plunk down my $? Thanks in advance! :confused:

[Van Huskey]

First, if you wait and watch the PM will go on sale for about 850 a coupld of times a year and most all suppliers ship them free since they drop ship.

Woodcraft has the Rikon on sale for 699 2-3 times a year if you have one close to you, if not their shipping eats up the savings.

You have a tough choice, the PM is my first choice because there is a lot of value added stuff on that saw and it is a first rate cast clone plus it has a 5 year warranty when on sale at $850 I think it is the best deal. The Rikon is my second choice. In the end they are all good saws and properly tuned they will be a great first BS, each has its positives and negatives and all offer good value WHEN they are on sale, the PM and Rikon less so when at regular price.

[larry shaughnessy]

I have the rikon 14 and Its got great power, no problems with alignment or flat table AT ALL.... Great resaw right out of the box with no riser blocks to fool around with..... Best bandsaw in that size out of the 3.

Just my 2 cents........Larry

[Van Huskey]

I realized my answer was flawed since I answered based on my research to by a second smaller bandsaw for curves. IF you are willing to spend 1k just get the Grizzly 513X2 and be done with it, the 513P can be had for about $800 shippped and is a great saw but the X2 is worth the extra money. Either one would make a better saw for all around use than any of your three options in my opinion.

[Peter Quinn]

I just got rid of the PM 14" a few months ago. It was a very solid machine in that weight class. Good power, a decent fence, carter guides and quick release, all in all a very pleasant saw to work with. I traded up for a large Italian BS, but never had a problem with the PM. I chose it instead of the rikon for reasons I can no longer remember. I'd guess for most home use any one of those machines will be a great asset to your shop, and all will handle your needs with ease given a good set up and a good blade. I wouldn't sweat that decision too much, you can't lose any way you go.

[Terry Coleman]

I picked up the Shopfox 14" W1706 Bandsaw a few weeks ago for $549.00. It includes a nice fence, roller bearing guides and a tension release lever. It a nice quality made bandsaw. Might be worth a look.

http://www.hillcountrycruising.com/bandsaw2.jpg


OK. About 11/2 months ago I posted a thread asking opinions comparing the Grizzly 14" Go555X extreme band saw with another brand, Grizzly has their saw on sale. For $800 I get the saw, riser block and shipping. For the same $800, Rikon has a sale on their deluxe euro style 14" saw with the cast iron wheels (like the Grizz), lots of added features such as a rack and pinion guard, a hinged guard, etc. Shipping is free through Amazon. Grizz has the better fence and comes out of the box with more accurate settings (wheels coplaner, table is the flattest, etc.). For $1000 and free shipping is the Powermatic 14" deluxe saw with a free riser block. Shipping is free through Toolzone. My budget was originally set for the griz and I've been eying it for a year. This is my first bs and want to make the right decision. I think I should calm myself down and try to stay within the $800 budget. I'm a garage shop hobbyist and plan to make furniture, electric guitars and some resawing with it. They all have great write ups. I do know FFW liked the Grizz. The Rikon has been known to have problems with having flat tables. They all seem to have great trunions, guides, and 1.5 hp motors etc. Any help out there before I plunk down my $? Thanks in advance! :confused:

[Dave MacArthur]

I was going to jump all over Van's first post, but he self-fixed ;) Indeed, you can get better than all three of those saws in the G513x2, or the Polar version. I would never consider adding a riser block, if you can get a saw designed to be that height. The G513x2 beats all three of your other options hands down IMO. HOWEVER, all the saws you mentioned are good machines if you're set on one, or really desire a 14" for some reason.

And if budget creep is a possibility... the G514x2. ;) They've got is priced just sooooo perfectly... you're almost there with the 513, just a couple hundred more, "I could stop drinking beer for a month or two" you start thinking...
Really, I love the table support rack/pinion on that 514x2. I'd buy that one.

Sorry to inflate your budget, and not even answer your three choices, but I'd just hate to have a friend buy one of those with the current Griz polar prices...
Good luck!

[Thomas Delpizzo]

My experience is that when there is a sale , it's a break on the price and not shipping or vice versa. Hence the real choice is between the Rikon and the Grizzly, as they will both cost the same. I saw the Rikon at the local Woodcraft in Va. while visiting my brother as there are none close to me in NY. Very nice saw, I was impressed with the quality. If I ask the salesman I'll get a biased view, but has anyone had any problems with changing blades or adjusting guides on these saws. I saw that FWW wasn't happy with those issues on the Rikon, but I haven't seen anyone complain about them.
As to customer support, It seems Grizzly has great customer service.

[Van Huskey]

My experience is that when there is a sale , it's a break on the price and not shipping or vice versa. Hence the real choice is between the Rikon and the Grizzly, as they will both cost the same. I saw the Rikon at the local Woodcraft in Va. while visiting my brother as there are none close to me in NY. Very nice saw, I was impressed with the quality. If I ask the salesman I'll get a biased view, but has anyone had any problems with changing blades or adjusting guides on these saws. I saw that FWW wasn't happy with those issues on the Rikon, but I haven't seen anyone complain about them.
As to customer support, It seems Grizzly has great customer service.


To clarify Jet/PM stuff has had free lift gate shipping for a while and it has stood through both 15% off sales. Again, I still think the best deal in bandsaws in the sub 1K range are the Grizzly 513 saws.

[Van Huskey]

I would never consider adding a riser block, if you can get a saw designed to be that height.

I feel the same way, the steel spined saws are generally superior to the cast saws and my shopping was based on 6" height being more than enough for a second saw.

[Lance Norris]

Thomas... as an owner of a cast iron 14" bandsaw and a steel framed 14" bandsaw, I would recommend you buy a steel framed saw. They both can do a fine job, but the steel frame has an advantage. It can tension higher and this is important when you resaw. Have you looked at the Grizzly G0457? Since you are looking at 14" saws, I decided to jump in with my opinion. I have the 457 and its an excellent saw. The only thing any of the other saws may be able to beat it with is it has a 10" resaw limit. I have never needed any more than that 10" The 2 horsepower is great. I have resawn maple and walnut to capacity with no straining and its a quality saw in all ways. Take a look and give it some consideration...

http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-2-HP-Deluxe-Bandsaw/G0457

[ian maybury]

Hi Thomas. I've no experience of the saws you mention, but have just bought a slightly used big Agazzani with a lot of help from the guys here, and from the site.

I see a guitar in your logo, and presume you may have deep resawing in mind - which was the reason i upgraded.

So here's what i've learned for what it's worth. Don't let small cost differences set the agenda. Make sure you are targeting the right level of capability for your needs first.

I say that because it's so easy to get sucked into spec sheet based micro comparisons between models (which at a given price point are usually pretty similar) when in practice the real decision is about what is the right level of machine capability for you.

Like in most other woodworking equipment (as proven by my last band saw which i bought in micro comparison mode - i'd no experience anyway) there's a big difference between the literature ticking a box on a spec sheet to suggest the saw can do something, and doing it well. (e.g. 12 in vertical capacity on a bandsaw is far from being the same as resawing well at 12 in depth of cut)

I got lucky in that finding myself unable to solidly verify capability in the saws i was looking at (this is the real pay dirt, and the hard information to wiggle out) at my budget level this time around i dug in and held fire. But i was tempted to do the impatient thing and take a chance on it.

It could have turned out otherwise, but the result in this case was that several weeks later i was offered the saw i bought (which may even be gilding the lily a little for my work) for significantly less money than i would have paid for a saw of unconfirmed capability......


ian

[Mike Goetzke]

Thomas - I got help from many that have responded above on my recent BS purchase. My garage shop is tight on space. Years back when I started tooling up I bought a HF 14" and it served me well. I then replaced it with a higher powered Delta 14" and added a riser. I have a home improvement job that requires some resawing so I started looking at BS's again. I did lots of research and found someone like me replaced their Delta 14" with a 17" Grizzly and said it took about the same amount of floor space. I was ready to get the Polar Bear but then Van and others explained the value of the extras on the G0513X2 - which is now sitting in my shop (& it fits nicely in the same spot my 14" Delta did).

That being said - I would suggest you look for a used 14" and see how much you use it and what limits it has and then determine if you need something else.

Mike

[Thomas Delpizzo]

I've looked at the Grizzly 17" and 18", the problem is budget and floorspace. I'm also not sure if the saw is going to be sitting around a lot. My dreams of what I want to do with it and actual accomplishment may be far apart. On the Grizzly polar bear series which is a steal right now, it doesn't have the cast iron wheels I'm looking for and some of the other extras. When you add them up, you're looking at the 18" deluxe, which is a beautiful saw, but way out of my price league. Lance Norris' experience with both types of saws is very helpful. Finding good used band saws are hard to come by in my experience. I've only come across 2 in the last year unless someone can steer me to sources other
than ebay and Craigslist. Most people don't use the pare anymore and some of the used tool sites on the internet haven't been impressive.

[Ashwini Kaul]

I've looked at the Grizzly 17" and 18", the problem is budget and floorspace. I'm also not sure if the saw is going to be sitting around a lot. My dreams of what I want to do with it and actual accomplishment may be far apart. On the Grizzly polar bear series which is a steal right now, it doesn't have the cast iron wheels I'm looking for and some of the other extras. When you add them up, you're looking at the 18" deluxe, which is a beautiful saw, but way out of my price league. Lance Norris' experience with both types of saws is very helpful. Finding good used band saws are hard to come by in my experience. I've only come across 2 in the last year unless someone can steer me to sources other
than ebay and Craigslist. Most people don't use the pare anymore and some of the used tool sites on the internet haven't been impressive.

My experience closely mirrors Thomas's!
My biggest contraint is dragging a hulking green giant (514x2) to my basement. Even though I am pretty fit, there is no way I could do it alone... and my friend group... well its not their kind of thing... they'd much rather wine,dine etc.
I came most close to getting the 513x2 based on price/features/performance and user reports. I didnt and have been agonizing over this decision by looking at Lagunas/Felders and maybe in the near future Aggazanis. Ideally I would have like to aim for 2 bandsaw... a smaller one for curves etc and larger one for resawing... but being a hobbyist with a job and a half during the days... I wonder if I will use even one!
For me the currrent contenders, slightly out of the OPs price range are the - Laguna 14"SUV when it goes on sale
- Felder 4400 currently on sale
- 513x2 seemingly the best bang for the buck.

This Sucks!! And I know your pain!

[ian maybury]

Pardon me if i might have seemed to suggest you were going for the wrong saw Thomas - that wasn't the plan. Occasional usage by the way may still demand a good saw if that's what the work demands...

[Mike Goetzke]

I've looked at the Grizzly 17" and 18", the problem is budget and floorspace See my response - the 17" Grizz takes up the same floor space as my 14" Delta did. . I'm also not sure if the saw is going to be sitting around a lot. My dreams of what I want to do with it and actual accomplishment may be far apart. On the Grizzly polar bear series which is a steal right now, it doesn't have the cast iron wheels I'm looking for and some of the other extras. When you add them up, you're looking at the 18" deluxe ???-look at the G0513X2 closely. It's in your $ range and has all the features you were looking for, which is a beautiful saw, but way out of my price league. Lance Norris' experience with both types of saws is very helpful. Finding good used band saws are hard to come by in my experience. I've only come across 2 in the last year unless someone can steer me to sources other
than ebay and Craigslist. Most people don't use the pare anymore and some of the used tool sites on the internet haven't been impressive.



see comments above

[Van Huskey]

On the Grizzly polar bear series which is a steal right now, it doesn't have the cast iron wheels I'm looking for and some of the other extras.


I agree the X2 has a lot of value added stuff on it and for the price is worth the extra money over the 513P, however it is a fine saw and I would rather have it than most 14" saws for general use unless the 14" saws were Lagunas. If you are not willing to stretch for the X2 the 513P is a steal even without all the extras.

The X2 has over the Polar Bear:

Larger table
Cast trunnions
Cast wheels
Ball bearing guides (a metter of taste but I do like the BB guides better)

The 513P table is larger than most 14" saws. I haven't heard anyone complain about the trunnions and the Euro guides satisfy a lot of people (Agazzanis come with Euro guides!). The value of cast wheels I feel is overstated if they both run true and are balanced I defy anyone to tell the difference in actual use. The extra stored energy is just not that great on a 14" saw coupled with the fact the 513P has a 2hp motor vs the 1.5hp motor on the 14" saws you are looking at the extra 1/2 horse far exceeds any momentum held by the cast wheels in a 14" saw. If you get a 513P and a Carter Stabilizer for 1/4" and under blades (watch the video on the Carter site) I think you will be happier in the long run over the 14" saws you mentioned. The 513 series from Grizzly are just the best sub 1K buys in BS right now.

[Thomas Delpizzo]

aaarrrgghh decisions, decisions! Unfortunately in reading the bandsaw book and Iturra's catalog, I have too much info! I'm concerned the aluminim heels will flex over time vs the cast, I went to the Woodcraft here, in Va again (I think they're tired of seeing me) and looked over the Rikon 14" deluxe. I was just settling on that when I saw your post!! The Rikon, by the way has 13" resaw capacity and seems solidly built, But the extra 1/2 horse is handy, By the way can the 513P be mobile or is it too tall?

[Kurt Rosenzweig]

The X2 has over the Polar Bear:

Larger table
Cast trunnions
Cast wheels
Ball bearing guides (a metter of taste but I do like the BB guides better)


And the X2 also has a decent aluminum resaw fence. I don't believe the P comes with one. I'm very happy with my X2.
Grizzly sold me the Shop Fox mobile base at the time I made my purchase and I have to say moving it around is a breeze!

[Thomas Delpizzo]

Other than the extra 3" sawing capacity and 1/2 hp more for resaw, won't it be too much saw for what I need? I'm just afraid if it sits in the corner for 6 months at a time I won't get the full potential of the saw. I hope to do guitar necks and bodies, some resawing, maybe some furniture parts at some point. However, I'm starting to figure how to stretch the budget for the 17" Grizz.!

[Mike Goetzke]

, By the way can the 513P be mobile or is it too tall?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/My%20Tools/Grizzly%20G0513X2/th_IMG_1038.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/My%20Tools/Grizzly%20G0513X2/?action=view&current=IMG_1038.jpg)

[ken gibbs]

I bought my Griz G0555 1 & 1/2 years ago. I love it for the money. Absolutely no problems and I continue to buy blades for it for special applications, etc. Go Griz.

[Greg Roberts]

I'm right in the middle of deciding on a BS. I'm finding that there's a lot to be said for choosing the saw that best fits your needs. I know that sounds obvious, but for me it wasn't.

I was getting bogged down in trying to determine which saw has the highest build quality. Build quality is important, but when comparing a lot of these saws, it's not as important as getting one that is going to work well for the things you intend to do with it.

For instance, I'm looking at the Laguna LT14SUV and the Grizzly GO514X2. They are both about the same price with shipping and mobility kits. They have very similar features. I believe the Laguna is a higher quality machine with better guides. But I'm really leaning towards the Grizzly because the table is much larger, the throat capacity is 5" larger, and it's got a taller fence.

When I think about the specific kind of work I'm going to do with the machine, the Grizzly just fits better. When I buy the Grizzly, I'm going to try really hard not to think about what I gave up in quality by not buying the Laguna!

By the way, my budget was $1,000. It got stretched to $1,500 with mobility and shipping. To get near the same size machine in Laguna, I've got to spend another $700 (LT18 3000). Got to draw the line somewhere!

Good luck!

Greg

[Thomas Delpizzo]

Yeah, drawing the line is important, hence my sticking with the 14" models. However, the extra $200 for the larger machine is awfully tempting!!

[Thomas Delpizzo]

I picked up the Shopfox 14" W1706 Bandsaw a few weeks ago for $549.00. It includes a nice fence, roller bearing guides and a tension release lever. It a nice quality made bandsaw. Might be worth a look.

http://www.hillcountrycruising.com/bandsaw2.jpg

The closest Shopfox dealer would be through Woodstock woodworking tools. So, I may as well stick with Grizzly or the Rikon - thanks.

[Dave MacArthur]

Shopfox is essentially Grizzly, sold through dealers. Woodstock Intl. (purveyors of ShopFox line) and Grizzly are owned by the same guy. I'd expect he and his teams source from the best they can negotiate, whatever the label, and unless he's really able to split personality, I'd expect them to be very very close.

However, as an avid watcher of the rapidly evolving Grizzly band saw lineup, I would say that most of their changes and tweaks are occurring in the Grizzly line and not making it across to the ShopFox ones. There have been maybe 7 model improvements in the last 3 years at Grizzly in the 17" and up especially, with no changes I'm aware of to the ShopFox line. I watched both, as I couldn't get hands on an actual Grizzly, but have a local dealer for ShopFox nearby.

Corollary, if you find a good deal on a ShopFox you do like, then you're getting all that Grizzly offers (which is a lot of bandsaw for a great price!), great customer service engine, along with local backup/service which can be nice.

Thomas, you said, "drawing the line is important, hence my sticking with the 14" models." However, remember the "line" is $$$$$, not size. Everyone draws the line somewhere, but from your initial lineup of $800, $800, and $1000 for 14" options... why is the 513p 17" not below that line? $792 shipped! That saw has more positive reviews than any bandsaw on the web, and I'm with Van--while we all say "why not?" for cast iron wheels, the truth is they're probably not very important. Most important is probably, "what do actual owners think about this vs. their expectations/needs and other saws they've experienced?". Most 513 owners are prior owners of 14" and the overwhelming majority of them can't say enough good things about their upgrade.

Anyhoo, don't set your line arbitrarily at size, if your line is really about $$ ;) And THANKS, boy do I love a band saw thread, almost as I love spending your money on a band saw! ;)

[Van Huskey]

And THANKS, boy do I love a band saw thread, almost as I love spending your money on a band saw! ;)

They are my favorite as well, and I do love spending other peoples money! Bandsaws are second only to routers in usefullness IMHO and they are also one of the most misunderstood.


PS has anyone here have a 513 with aluminum wheels that has had any issues with the wheels?

[John Gornall]

I'm looking for a better 14 inch bandsaw and am seriously looking at this new offering from General:

http://www.general.ca/site_general/g_produits/bandsaw/90-170.html

12" resaw - cast iron wheels - 16x20 table

[Jack Clark]

I'm looking for a better 14 inch bandsaw and am seriously looking at this new offering from General:

http://www.general.ca/site_general/g_produits/bandsaw/90-170.html

12" resaw - cast iron wheels - 16x20 table

Looks like a nice saw at a competitive (introductory) price. But do you think only 1.5 HP might be a little anemic for that much resaw capability (12")?

[Callan Campbell]

My experience is that when there is a sale , it's a break on the price and not shipping or vice versa. Hence the real choice is between the Rikon and the Grizzly, as they will both cost the same. I saw the Rikon at the local Woodcraft in Va. while visiting my brother as there are none close to me in NY. Very nice saw, I was impressed with the quality. If I ask the salesman I'll get a biased view, but has anyone had any problems with changing blades or adjusting guides on these saws. I saw that FWW wasn't happy with those issues on the Rikon, but I haven't seen anyone complain about them.
As to customer support, It seems Grizzly has great customer service.
Funny you should post about the Rikon AND FWW's review of it. I just changed blades on my 14"/325 Rikon last weekend, and STILL don't know what trouble FWW had with either a blade change or adjusting the guides.:confused:
I WILL admit the lower guides are not as easy as the upper ones, but still, not that hard at all. Only real knock I have on my Rikon is that I feel some dust collection at the lower guide bearings, right under the table, would be a worthwhile upgrade for an owner to make in their shop.
I pull lots of dust with the 4" port that's in the lower part of the machine, the inside of either wheel cabinet/section stays clean, but you do get a build-up around the lower guides. I couldn't really change much else about the Rikon except maybe moving the allen wrench/tool holder to the switch/front side of the machine for easier reaching when you DO have to adjust the guide bearings. I have my Rikon backed up against a shop wall, and swing it out away from the wall on its mobile base when cutting longer items. Plus 1 on the Rikon, but all the BS machines you mentioned are nice ones. :)

[Bob Direso]

OK. About 11/2 months ago I posted a thread asking opinions comparing the Grizzly 14" Go555X extreme band saw with another brand, Grizzly has their saw on sale. For $800 I get the saw, riser block and shipping. For the same $800, Rikon has a sale on their deluxe euro style 14" saw with the cast iron wheels (like the Grizz), lots of added features such as a rack and pinion guard, a hinged guard, etc. Shipping is free through Amazon. Grizz has the better fence and comes out of the box with more accurate settings (wheels coplaner, table is the flattest, etc.). For $1000 and free shipping is the Powermatic 14" deluxe saw with a free riser block. Shipping is free through Toolzone. My budget was originally set for the griz and I've been eying it for a year. This is my first bs and want to make the right decision. I think I should calm myself down and try to stay within the $800 budget. I'm a garage shop hobbyist and plan to make furniture, electric guitars and some resawing with it. They all have great write ups. I do know FFW liked the Grizz. The Rikon has been known to have problems with having flat tables. They all seem to have great trunions, guides, and 1.5 hp motors etc. Any help out there before I plunk down my $? Thanks in advance! :confused:
I have the Rikon 14" deluxe BS and it has done everything I needed: curves, resaw, etc. No problem with flatness of tables. Can't comment on other brands due to no experience with them. Good luck. bob.

[Thomas Delpizzo]

ok, I took the plunge! I called Amazon and they wanted another $75 for NY state sales tax!! I figured that plus another 50 -75 for the fence addition I wanted put me into the category of the Grizzly 17" bandsaw with the cast iron wheels and trunion.
However, I spoke with my car mechanic today and the news was not good, so the wife said stay with the budget and if I find I'm using the saw a lot and want to upgrade in a couple of years, then deal with the issue then.
So back to plan "a". With all the great advice I received from you guys I went back and ordered the Grizz go555x with the riser. Picked up a Timberwolf blade also. I hope to see it a week from now. Thanks again and I'll let you know how it goes.

I'm not really disappointed, except when dreaming about the 'what if". But its a great saw and I'll learn quite a bit with it.:)

[Kurt Rosenzweig]

Fear not. A lot of people own 2 bandsaws.:D

[Joseph Tarantino]

dump the t-wolf blade and get a lennox from iturra design. i've seen too many comments on woodworking forums about t-wolf welds not being up to snuff. i personally had 4 new blades with misaligned welds. iturra doesn't have a website, but can be reached here:

http://www.manta.com/c/mmc3znn/iturra-design

you got a great saw, now put a great blade on it.

[Thomas Delpizzo]

Yeah, I have an '07 catalog. Figured I'd give a call. I'm also thinking of getting a Woodslicer for the resaw work. They make one in the .026 range which would be ok for a 14" saw using a 3/4" blade.

[Justin Bukoski]

Woodslicer is a great blade. Well worth having.