Shaper - tenon & cope cut question

[Doug Mason]

A quick question regarding tooling for a shaper I recently acquired -- a 10 yr old Felder shaper, 10hp, with a 9in cutter opening. Keep in mind that I am new to the shaper and its tooling.

I am going to be making cabinet doors (cabinets, etc - but not interior/exterior doors) with cope/stick/raised panel cutters. Rails and stiles will at max be 3 1/2 inches wide. I don't want this thread to digress into joinery methods (i.e., dowel joinery, stub tenons, splined tenons, etc); rather, I just want to discuss "my options" in making a 3inch tenon with a coping cut using my shaper. Here are my thoughts:

Using tooling from Freeborn or Schmidt, couldn't I combine two 8 or 9 inch coping disks w/a custom insert cope cuter on the bottom--which would allow a 3in tenon with a cope cut? Or for those with experience, what are your thoughts?

thx

[Kirk Poore]

Yes, but: That's a pretty big horse for a novice to ride. I cut tenons on my Delta shaper, but nothing like a 3" long tenon. I'd be extremely careful. A power feeder would be a must, I'd say.

Kirk

[Neal Clayton]

you don't have to cut it all in one pass. simply set the fence as a stop and take small cuts until you run into the fence using a stub spindle.

in that respect the eventual depth doesn't matter.

[Steve Rowe]

You can do what you describe in one pass with the slider using the tenoning plate and hold down clamps. With that depth of cut, you will also need the tenoning hood as the standard fence may not work.

I have cut tenons(no cope) 2-1/4" long which is the limit of my cutterset (180mm diameter).
Steve

[Stephen Cherry]

One idea, and I hope that this is not too much of a digression, would be to cut strait tenons. If you are going to have a very long tenon, and the accompanying mortise, you are very close to traditional cabinet joinery, in terms of structure rather than method. You could buy one set of tenon cutters ($$$$) and a bunch of router bits ($) for the inside edge. A simple jig (you mentioned in a previous thread you are a handtool guy) could be used to remove the contour from the stiles.

You could even use a strait bit to cut the step for the contour for the inside edges of the rails and styles, and then scratch in the contour.

The advantage of this method is one set of expensive tooling to cut lots of different door types. And for me, a greater advantage would be the ability to combine hand tool methods, and product, with the speed and repeatability of power tools, which would result in an "18th century" style door.

Also, would it be possible to use your power feeder to move the slide on the shaper, rolling against the slide rather than the wood? This might be a great application of a VFD with forward and reverse switch to move the slide at a slower, controllable speed, with your hands nowhere near the cutting action.

I read your intro thread on your shaper very carefully, and I may be following you into the world of high HP euroshapers.

[J.R. Rutter]

^^^^

This seems like a good idea to me. I picked up a hauncher at auction earlier this year to do beaded frames, but they are big machines for dedicated use. But now that Kreg has their system on the market, the haunching can be reduced to a router table setup. Being able to run whatever inside profile you like without trying to match up cope and stick would be both less expensive and more "freeing" from a design standpoint.

[Peter Quinn]

Here are my thoughts:

Using tooling from Freeborn or Schmidt, couldn't I combine two 8 or 9 inch coping disks w/a custom insert cope cuter on the bottom--which would allow a 3in tenon with a cope cut? Or for those with experience, what are your thoughts?

thx

I think yes, you certainly could. Pretty standard fare for big euro shapers. Try this link, (http://www.whitehill-tools.com/TenonDiscs.aspx) then find a local supplier or similar product. You can get tenon disks with a bottom cope head, get cope knives ground to pattern, no jack miters to cut, one pass, very accurate tenons, Bob's your uncle. The shaper you have will do it, make sure to secure your stock, use the proper hood, and set it up carefully. Its not even really that expensive all things considered. Have I done this? Not personally, but it can certainly be done.

[Peter Quinn]

Ps, if you are new to shapers or large euro shapers there is a book you may want to look at called

http://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Moulder-Handbook-Eric-Stephenson/dp/0854421505

The old Lonnie Byrd book is distinctly lacking in "how to safely set up a 300MM tenon stack with cope head". This book is not lacking.

[Tony Joyce]

A quick question regarding tooling for a shaper I recently acquired -- a 10 yr old Felder shaper, 10hp, with a 9in cutter opening. Keep in mind that I am new to the shaper and its tooling.

I am going to be making cabinet doors (cabinets, etc - but not interior/exterior doors) with cope/stick/raised panel cutters. Rails and stiles will at max be 3 1/2 inches wide. I don't want this thread to digress into joinery methods (i.e., dowel joinery, stub tenons, splined tenons, etc); rather, I just want to discuss "my options" in making a 3inch tenon with a coping cut using my shaper. Here are my thoughts:

Using tooling from Freeborn or Schmidt, couldn't I combine two 8 or 9 inch coping disks w/a custom insert cope cuter on the bottom--which would allow a 3in tenon with a cope cut? Or for those with experience, what are your thoughts?

thx

Doug,
Short answer is yes you can. I have two of the Schmidt 8" coping disk that I cut 3-1/2" long tenons with. I use corrugated cutters which make it very versatile and easy to change custom cope patterns. I use them on a 10HP Wadkin shaper. I usually hog off the waste with a dado and take a finish pass on the shaper, although I have cut them one pass if in a hurry with only one or two to do. I made my own fence which has a continuous strip all the way through between the two cutters. This is removing a massive amount of wood if doing 1-3/8" - 1-3/4" thick doors!

Not exactly a beginner type shaper operation. I suggest becoming very familiar with the machine, before attempting this type operation. Guarded cutters and a firm grip. If the material is wide enough, a power feeder is a good idea. Remember to slow the RPM's down because of the large diameter of the cope heads.

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