Insect concerns of air drying green lumber?

[Scott Behrens]

I recently sent an Oak tree to the local sawmill and expect to get it back soon. I'm wondering what insect or bug considerations I need to take into account when drying the wood. Are there any insects I need to watch out for? If so, will I notice the problem by keeping an eye on things or can this go unseen? I wil probably stack the lumber in my garage, but thought I might put some of the nicer boards in my basement and use a dehumidifier, fan, and plastic sheet. I don't want to take the chance of damaging my home. I guess location could matter too, I'm in Des Moines, IA. Does the species of tree matter, I hope to do the same with maple, walnut, and maybe more in the future.

Thanks for any help,
Scott Behrens

[everett lowell]

Scott,have you air dryed wood before?you might know more than me, as i have only done it once.I stacked a load of cherry outside for a full year before i took it into my basement workshop to dry for another 6-8 months to try to get the moisture content down to about 7%,i dont have a moisture meter yet!Im afraid if you bring it inside too soon it might dry too fast and warp badly.

[Donnie Raines]

Oak is notorious for attracting the powder post beatle. The grain structure of the wood is very easy for them to burrow into. I have never air dried oak before(when I say air dry...I mean no kiln drying process at all). I have many others though. I will spray Borax on the surfaces and on the end grain(be sure to seal the ends with Anchor seal or wax of some type).

I will allow the stack to sit outside for about 1 year(covered on top some no water can rest on the surface of the boards). I do have a meter and when they get down to about 10% I will bring them inside for a month or so. A this point they are ready to go.

If you intend on haveing it kiln dried, allow it air dry for about 6 months prior to kiln drying. If the boards are kiln dried to soon, they will case harden(dry on the outside...wet on the inside) and will warp tweak or whatever.

[Scott Behrens]

Thanks for the help guys, keep the advice coming. I don't plan on doing any kiln drying.

Ok, my most current plan is to haul the lumber out to my parents place where they have a couple large post and beam buildings. I can stack all the lumber in a corner and there will be plenty of space. They are uninsulated. I think that way the lumber will not get wet yet shouldn't dry out too fast. Let me know if there is an error in my logic.

I have painted the ends of the logs with exterior paint. Should I still seal the ends with wax to prevent the beetle? If so, does just any wax work? where is the best place to get it? Where do I find out more on Borax?

Can the beetles (or other insects) cause problems to the building too, or will they just go after the wet wood? Are they something you will notice if you check the wood regularly? If they can cause a problem with the buildings, is there a way to treat for them? what would that cost?

Assuming all went well, would it be safe to move some of the wood indoors after a year or so?

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to end up in over my head.

[Donnie Raines]

Parrafin(spelling) wax works great...you get that at your local grocery store.

There is not need to worry about drying the lumber to quicj if you are air drying it. With exception being no direct sunlight...that will dry the surface to quick and cause checking. Air flow is a must when air drying lumber. I simply cover the top and that allows air to pass through the stack. I suspect that if there was no air flow(or very limited air flow) that it would increase the time for the wood to be "ready"....but it could also cause molds to grow on the surface of the wood. If the humidity can get very sticky around there..that could be a problem. I do stack some in my garage(on top of the lumber rack) and thats fine....becuase the temperature is fairly stable.

I woudl seal the ends with wax....this is too keep the ends from drying out to quick and then checking. The beatles can enter through the surface of the boards....end grain, side where ever.

I bought my boarx at Lowes.

Not sure hwo to repsond to the beatles getting into your parent's house/building. I susepct they could if they really want to....but I think they would be happier snacking on your oak.

[Karl Laustrup]

Just to throw my two cents into the fray. I have air dried lumber on two different occasions. My first attempt was rather pitiful. It included maple and hickory. These boards came out warped, cupped, you name it. I can still use them but only in short lengths [3' max and sometimes only 3" wide]. My mistake was to not support each board every 18" or less along it's length. I also didn't cinch down the stack.

My second attempt was much better. All lumber was stacked with supports and finally cinched down with 5" straps similar to some of those used to hold loads on tractor/trailer rigs. I would tighten these once a week for at least the first 3 months. After that the wood had shrunk about all it was going to and I couldn't tighten anymore. The stack was off the ground by about one foot and I kept it covered even on the sides, although not tight to the sides. It was more like a tent with tarp about 4' off the top of the boards. This allowed ample air flow, especially as the stack had no obstructions from the prevailing wind.

They were stacked in August 2003 and the guy that cut them, with his portable sawmill, came by in late March or early April to check for moisture content. 7-10%, so into the shop they came. They were allowed to acclimate to the shop for another 4 months before I used the first of them.
If you go to the Off Topic Forum and open the "New Home for the JD [gloat & pics]" there is a picture of the oak and cherry from the last drying episode.

It is better to do the drying job right, not like I did the first time.

Sorry, I got so long winded, but when you haven't done some of this before it's sometimes the little things that make all the difference.

Any other questions; I'll answer what I can.

Enjoy the wood. I do, because it came from my property.

Karl

[thomas prevost]

Sticker every 2 feet the lenght.
each sticker EXACTLY over the lower one
Cover top with plastic - tin roofing or what ever
make sure the sides are open for free air flow to carry the moisture concentrated air away
Lots and lots of weight on the top of the stack 10-12 cinder blocks
Oak is notorious for checking if the sun hits it during the day.
To prevent this a shady side of a building, garage or shed will stop this
Wax or armor seal ends a must
weed/lawn sprayer with 3% borax will keep bugs in check
I would air dry outdoors first then you can check for powder post beetles or other insects before bringing it into the house or atttached garage

[Karl Laustrup]

Thanks, Thomas. Couldn't for the life of me remember my "supports" are called stickers.:o I used 1"X2" and spaced them about every 18". I went more like 36" between stickers the first time, I wasn't taking any chances the last time.

Karl

You any where near Lake George, Thomas?

[thomas prevost]

I am about 1 hour from Lake George. More in the central Adks. Large lumbering area. Got family or friends at the Lake?

[Scott Banbury]

Scott,

Here's the handout I give to my customers.

- Scott Banbury

[Bob Smalser]

I'd follow Scott's pdf attachment closely...it's very good.

I can only add that air flow...I like my stacks on gentle slopes for that reason...tends to keep Lyctus and Anobia away. A handful of Diazinon thrown around and under the stack every spring works even better. Other pests like Ambrosia beetles need green logs and bark, and only attack sapwood.

It's when the insect holes penetrate deep into the heartwood when you have a real problem.

The other gotcha with most hardwoods is not leveling those stacks up as they settle after rains before the wood reaches EMC:

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4110272/52876879.jpg

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=9102&highlight=drying+stacks

[Scott Behrens]

Thanks for all the help guys. I heard from my sawyer today. I got about 550-600 bd ft of oak. He said it came out pretty well. I probably haven't done as much research as I should, but everyone seems to do things at least a bit differently. I've got a couple more questions if anyone wants to tackle them.

After discussing with my mother (where it will be stacked and stickered) the pile will be located in a quasi loft in her large machine shed. Things are pretty dry and warm up there and will see some fair air flow when the doors are open (probably every other day on average) I can also add some box fans if necessary. Someone let me know if this is just a bad idea.

I don't know if I'll spary the stack with borax. People don't seem to concerned with the bugs and I figure the bugs will be less likely to head up high in the barn but I could be wrong. Bob - what are the things you throw around your stack? I've found a site or two that say beetles aren't of much concern in Iowa and my sawyer didn't seem too concerned when I asked him. He said Hickory would be more of a target but most of the sites I've seen say oak is a prime candidate.

Am I correct in assuming that if there are no holes in the wood when I want to use it (a year or two) it will be safe to bring the wood inside, in other words "bug free"? I still don't want to risk my house in any way...

My sawyer stacked the lumber back on my trailer right on top of each other. Is this a problem, or only if they sit like this a long time. He cut it today(Sunday) and I plan to unload it tomorrow cause some sites say staining and other considerations can ruin the wood.

Also, My sawyer took a bit over a month to cut the wood. (some sites say weeks or even days matter, is that true?)

Sorry for all the questions, but you guys are great at answering and I want to do this right if I'm going to do it.

Scott

[Bob Smalser]

After discussing with my mother (where it will be stacked and stickered) the pile will be located in a quasi loft in her large machine shed. Things are pretty dry and warm up there and will see some fair air flow when the doors are open (probably every other day on average) I can also add some box fans if necessary. Someone let me know if this is just a bad idea.

I don't know if I'll spary the stack with borax. People don't seem to concerned with the bugs and I figure the bugs will be less likely to head up high in the barn but I could be wrong. Bob - what are the things you throw around your stack? I've found a site or two that say beetles aren't of much concern in Iowa and my sawyer didn't seem too concerned when I asked him. He said Hickory would be more of a target but most of the sites I've seen say oak is a prime candidate.

Am I correct in assuming that if there are no holes in the wood when I want to use it (a year or two) it will be safe to bring the wood inside, in other words "bug free"? I still don't want to risk my house in any way...

My sawyer stacked the lumber back on my trailer right on top of each other. Is this a problem, or only if they sit like this a long time. He cut it today(Sunday) and I plan to unload it tomorrow cause some sites say staining and other considerations can ruin the wood.

Also, My sawyer took a bit over a month to cut the wood. (some sites say weeks or even days matter, is that true?)

Sorry for all the questions, but you guys are great at answering and I want to do this right if I'm going to do it.

Scott

Make sure the shed wood has no insect holes. Frankly, the only places I've seen real card-carrying Powder Post (as opposed to more common and harmless Ambrosia types) beetles around here are in old stacks smothered by vegitation with no air flow and in old barn beams.

I summer or weather above 55 degrees, I'd advise to stack fresh wood outdoors for a few months first, but it's cold there and mold shouldn't be a problem in an unheated shed....and it'll save you moving it....hopefully the shed has vented rafters and leaky doors. Same with leaving it dead piled on the trailer....takes 55 degrees and higher to cause problems....you be the judge.

However....remember you don't want "warm and dry" immediately...if the shed is heated or stays above 50 degrees for any length of time...the wood needs to go outdoors instead for the rest of the winter.

Borax is used these days for mold prevention in boat framing and isn't a bad deterrent to a number of ills....but that handful of Diazinon I mentioned is a better idea as it deters termites, carpenter ants, beetles, snakes, et al, although as I said and as your sawyer indicates....a properly ventilated, stacked and stickered pile isn't prone to much of anything bad. The vermin seem to like deadpiled, stagnant air wood and dislike air and stickers.

Not familiar with your weather, but your 4/4 stock may be ready as early as next August to move indoors for final seasoning to 9%...as I've said....holes deep in the heartwood are the only worries....and if your shed beams don't have them, your lumber likely won't.

[Jim Becker]

What Bob said...

Outdoors really is the best place to dry wood...you need lots of air movement to wick off the moisture as it releases from the wood. If you need to stack it indoors, you might consider putting a fan in the space to keep the air moving.

BTW, you need to get the lumber stacked and stickered "yesterday"!

[Donnie Raines]

For what it is worth:

All most all of the small sawyers in my area, and including one large mill, use boarx during the air drying process. I use it and will continue to do so.

I will also note, that most of the serious damage I have seen to boards were from insects already on the log prior to being cut....and in this case kiln drying is really the only reliable means to get rid of them. I have seen bugs bore right through the center of a board....not just the sap...particulary on oak, ash, hickory and even some walnut.

[Bob Smalser]

I suspect they spray with borax to save the sapwood from mold staining...but where I live in the rain forest, that's probably not possible with anything.

[Donnie Raines]

Maybe...I no that the guys who no what they are doing wait until the cooler time of the year to cut maple. Thay way the need not worry about mold growing on the surface of the boards...giving off that greyish look you see on maple sometime.