Help decide - Laguna or Grizzly BS

[Greg Roberts]

I know there are a lot of BS threads, and I've read a lot of them. But I would like fresh feedback from the forum members on this.

I'm considering two bandsaws, one is the Laguna LT14 SUV http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt14suv and the other is the Grizzly GO514X2 http://www.grizzly.com/products/19-Extreme-Bandsaw-3HP-Single-Phase/G0514X2

I realize that the Grizzly is considerably larger in size, but the Laguna actually has a larger resaw capacity (14", versus 12" for the Grizzly). The Grizzly has a larger table, and larger throat capacity, which I think I would find more useful than the larger resaw. The Laguna has ceramic guides, while the Grizzly has steel bearings.

Both have similar features in the size of motor, foot brake, dust collection ports, and general construction.

The Grizzly is slightly less money, but generally they price out about the same for me with shipping. I should say that I had a $1000 budget, with shipping, but stretched to get the extra features of these saws.

The question that I can't answer myself without help, is the question of quality. Is one of these machines significantly better than the other in the quality of the cast parts, the rigidity of the frame, vibration, wheel bearings, etc...?

Thanks for your input on a subject that has been beat to death!

Greg

[Dan Friedrichs]

Welcome to SMC, Greg.

I haven't seen the Grizzly, but have an older LT14. The fit and finish on it is very nice - exceptionally superior to any other imported machine I own.

I also thought that I'd want more throat width than resaw height, but at least based on what I use my BS for, I've never actually needed more throat width, but HAVE needed more resaw height!

I'd go with the Laguna. If absolutely nothing else, think about this: if you ever go to resell the Laguna, it will have held its value better than the Griz.

[Scot Ferraro]

I think both companies are reliable. I own a Laguna LT18 and all of my dealings with Laguna have been first rate. I have looked at the 14 inch up close at their showroom and if I were in the market for a smaller bandsaw, this is one that I would seriously consider. The ceramic guides are awesome and the DriftMaster fence is another must-have accessory, even if you add it later. I am sure some Grizzly owners will also weigh in to give you more food for thought.

Scot

[Greg Roberts]

Welcome to SMC, Greg.

I haven't seen the Grizzly, but have an older LT14. The fit and finish on it is very nice - exceptionally superior to any other imported machine I own.

I also thought that I'd want more throat width than resaw height, but at least based on what I use my BS for, I've never actually needed more throat width, but HAVE needed more resaw height!

I'd go with the Laguna. If absolutely nothing else, think about this: if you ever go to resell the Laguna, it will have held its value better than the Griz.

Thanks for the welcome. This seems like a pretty busy forum.

I need both resaw height and throat width, and also a very large table. I'm not resawing wood, I'm making wooden midrange horns, and I have cuts that I have to make that are curved, and the horn parts that I'm cutting are sitting on a jig at an angle, and the height is needed to make the cut all the way through.

No matter what, I'm going to have to build my own extensions on the tables, so actually the cast table size is not the most important thing.

I'm hoping someone here has seen both saws and can give me an informed report about the build quality differences between the two. I don't have the opportunity to see either of these machines in person.

I'm a little worried about the build quality of the Laguna, because just a few months ago I bought a new Laguna oscillating sander and it broke within a half hour of using it, on the very first project I used it on. The oscillating part broke. Generally, the build quality of the machine was fair. Not that I expected much more than that for the price I paid. I knew what I was getting. But I didn't expect it to break like that.

This was one of two reasons I cancelled my order of a Laguna 9' Pro Sliding TS that was due in just a few weeks after I got the sander. The other reason being that I ran across a great deal on an 18 month old Felder K700S.

I don't mean for this thread to turn into a Laguna bashing thread, because I don't really have bad feelings about the company. I've read enough about Laguna BS's to know that they are very well made. But how well made? I would like to know more about the build quality as compared to the Grizzly. I've heard very good things about the new Grizzly bandsaws too.

Greg

[Tri Hoang]

I had the G0513X2 & would go with a Laguna if I start all over again. The built on the Grizzly isn't very stout...although it has done pretty much everything I've asked it to do..which isn't much :)

[Matt Logana]

Isnt this apples and oranges? One is a 14" saw, where as the other is a 19" saw.... two different ball games.

19" Has a bigger table, but lacks the Resaw height...

14" Has the resaw height, but lacks the table size...

19" Is multi-speed... (Hardwoods and Softwoods cut better at different speeds.)

14" Is single-speed.


I think for what you discribed, the 19" Maybe a better option.

Although after viewing a few videos.... those Laguanas seem to be quality machines... Being made in Europe... Versus Asia... (Not at all meant to be a racist comment... but want to make that clear to avoid any possible ensuing bans... :D)

[Michael Peet]

I see at least 3 threads right here on the first page regarding issues with Grizzly bandsaws.

Mike

[Tri Hoang]

I've never found the dual speed on my G0513X2 appealing. It's way too much trouble changing it back & forth. Besides, the woods I've used do not seem to know the difference.


Isnt this apples and oranges? One is a 14" saw, where as the other is a 19" saw.... two different ball games.

19" Has a bigger table, but lacks the Resaw height...

14" Has the resaw height, but lacks the table size...

19" Is multi-speed... (Hardwoods and Softwoods cut better at different speeds.)

14" Is single-speed.


I think for what you discribed, the 19" Maybe a better option.

Although after viewing a few videos.... those Laguanas seem to be quality machines... Being made in Europe... Versus Asia... (Not at all meant to be a racist comment... but want to make that clear to avoid any possible ensuing bans... :D)

[John Coloccia]

I see at least 3 threads right here on the first page regarding issues with Grizzly bandsaws.

Mike

Please don't reference my thread because you have an axe to grind with Grizzly. For the record, I've been 100% satisfied with my Grizzly bandsaw and have done nothing but praise it from day one. My problem is a bandsaw tuning issue, which is not surprising considering that I never tuned the bandsaw in the first place because it was ready to go right out of the crate. It just now starting to need a little attention and tuning up.

[Paul Johnstone]

My concern with Grizzly is that they swap in and out new models all the time. I'm always worried about finding a part in 5-10 years if I need one.
Also, Grizzly seems to have quite a bit of quality and shipping problems. They do seem to be great bang for the buck, and a very loyal customer base.

Consider looking at the 18" Rikon BS.. That's the one I have, it's very nice, although I think the resaw is only 12". Cast iron wheels, well balanced. Quick release lever. No foot brake though. The thing I like about it is that this 18" BS is pretty much their flagship. I think they did one model change, but most of the parts were the same. I don't know your timeline, but they go on sale at Woodcraft about twice a year.. I guess I liked the Rikon, because I feel that parts will be around for a long time. It was nice to pick up at woodcraft too and not have to deal with shipping drama.

I've never owned a Laguana machine, but most people seem to like their bandsaws.. It's unfortunate, but many companies seem compelled to have some cheap junk in their sales offerings (like that spindle sander).

Edit: my Rikon BS has two speeds too, but I've never used that feature. Seems more trouble that it's worth.

[Kurt Rosenzweig]

Please don't reference my thread because you have an axe to grind with Grizzly. For the record, I've been 100% satisfied with my Grizzly bandsaw and have done nothing but praise it from day one. My problem is a bandsaw tuning issue, which is not surprising considering that I never tuned the bandsaw in the first place because it was ready to go right out of the crate. It just now starting to need a little attention and tuning up.

I agree! Also with the sale and popularity of the grizzly bandsaws there a a heck of a lot of them out there so therefor a lot of discussion in the forums about them. I've been resawing with my new Grizzly BS for a week straight with no issues. I'm extremely happy with the purchase.

[Jack Clark]

Although after viewing a few videos.... those Laguanas seem to be quality machines... Being made in Europe... Versus Asia...

As I understand it, both the Laguna LT14 SUV and the Grizzly G0514X2 are made in Taiwan. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[Greg Roberts]

Thank you for the input so far.

It's easy for me to research features and compare pricing online. I've done that, and I've narrowed my choices down to the Laguna LT14 SUV or the Grizzly GO514X2. I appreciate the suggestions on other models, and I appreciate the analysis of the differences in features of these two saws. But the main question that remains for me, and is something that I'm not able to clearly figure out on my own first hand, is the build quality of these two machines.

Is there a significant difference in build quality to the steel frame, wheel bearings, or guide systems that will make a significant difference in the way these two saws perform? Will one resist the torque of the blade significantly better because the frame is more rigid? Will one track better for a longer period of time because the bearings are significantly different than the other? Will one resist blade wandering better because the guides are significantly better? These are the things I can't tell from looking at specs. I'm looking for specifics here.

From what I can see, these two machines are built much the same. But looking at pictures doesn't tell the whole story.

Greg

[Shiraz Balolia]

As I understand it, both the Laguna LT14 SUV and the Grizzly G0514X2 are made in Taiwan. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

The Grizzly is made in Taiwan and I believe that the Laguna is made in China.

Also, actual G0514X2 owners could chime in - there are lots of them on Sawmill Creek.

[David Weaver]

My concern with Grizzly is that they swap in and out new models all the time. I'm always worried about finding a part in 5-10 years if I need one.
Also, Grizzly seems to have quite a bit of quality and shipping problems. They do seem to be great bang for the buck, and a very loyal customer base.

Consider looking at the 18" Rikon BS.. That's the one I have, it's very nice, although I think the resaw is only 12". Cast iron wheels, well balanced. Quick release lever. No foot brake though. The thing I like about it is that this 18" BS is pretty much their flagship. I think they did one model change, but most of the parts were the same. I don't know your timeline, but they go on sale at Woodcraft about twice a year.. I guess I liked the Rikon, because I feel that parts will be around for a long time. It was nice to pick up at woodcraft too and not have to deal with shipping drama.

I've never owned a Laguana machine, but most people seem to like their bandsaws.. It's unfortunate, but many companies seem compelled to have some cheap junk in their sales offerings (like that spindle sander).

Edit: my Rikon BS has two speeds too, but I've never used that feature. Seems more trouble that it's worth.

They all undergo redesigns. The rikon, if I'm not mistaken, also was redesigned a couple of years ago, even if the outside looks the same.

The same thing is true for the Jet machines. They have been redesigned twice in probably the last five years.

If bandsaws in the mid-range market change as much in the next 15 years as they have in the last 15, all of them will be out of date by then, anyway. Still capable of doing work if they are in shape, but there were a lot of mid-size bandsaws 15+ years ago that resawed 8 or 10 inches. They are gone now, and the "cheap" machines seem to do 12, and have nicer guides than they ever did before.

[John Coloccia]

The Grizzly is made in Taiwan and I believe that the Laguna is made in China.

Also, actual G0514X2 owners could chime in - there are lots of them on Sawmill Creek.

Good point. Again for the record, I own a G0514X2.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Is there a significant difference in build quality...

As Shiraz (who is President of Grizzly, in case you didn't know ;)) points out, both are made overseas. I doubt you'll find anyone who owns both machines, so a direct comparison is going to be hard. My impression is that both machines are well made - neither is an "economy" model.

The Grizz weighs a little more than the Laguna.

But, the Laguna has a Leeson motor, and comes with the ceramic guides (which would cost ~$300, IIRC, to add to the Grizzly). Having used the ceramic guides, I wouldn't give them up.

So in my mind, the plusses for the Laguna would be
+Leeson motor
+Ceramic guides
+Better resale value

[Paul McGaha]

Greg,

Where do you live?

Maybe there are Creekers near you that have the machines you are interested in?

I'm sure a test drive could be arranged.

Fun to meet Creekers. I've met (3).

PHM

[Paul Johnstone]

They all undergo redesigns. The rikon, if I'm not mistaken, also was redesigned a couple of years ago, even if the outside looks the same.
.

Yes, there has been 1 minor redesign on the Rikon, but it's largely the same.
I guess my point is that it's a lot less likely that the model will be discontinued in 5 years, as long as Rikon stays in business. In contrast, Grizz rotates many models of many machines in and out of their catalogs. At least that is my perception.. I realize this is not an issue to some people, and respect this.

[Stephen Ash]

I've owned a G0514X2 for about a year and I think it's a great machine. I don't know anything about the Laguna, so I can't draw any comparisons, but I've had nothing but good experiences with the Grizzly. My other Grizzly machines (8" jointer, 15" planer) have also performed flawlessly, and there's certainly no shortage of praise for their customer service either :)

Regards,
Steve

[Michael Peet]

Please don't reference my thread because you have an axe to grind with Grizzly.

You are right, John. I have no "axe to grind" with Grizzly, having never been a customer or owner of Grizzly machinery. Therefore I suppose my observation was unqualified and not appropriate.

I have nothing but respect for the fact that Shiraz contributes to these forums personally.

Mike

[Van Huskey]

As mentioned this is not a direct comparison. IF the size of my work was covered by the SUV I wouldn't think twice. The guides alone make a huge difference in the precision of the machines. The thing is both saws are priced appropriately for their size. The Laguna just has more value added parts. FWIW, in BS tests Laguna often wins the best overall category and the Grizzly often wins the best value category, however this is usually with one of Laguna's European saws. There have been several SUV threads here and almost always positive, the same for the Grizzly.

I guess what I am trying to say is if you need a larger saw the Grizzly is the only option, if a 14" with large resaw ability is completely adequate for you my choice would be the Laguna, the guides alone are worth a significant amount to me, they just support the blade better than any other guides I have used (Euro, Euro ceramic, ball bearing of all types including Carter, solid guides of all materials and Iturra). People often overlook the guides but they are the brains of a BS.

[ian maybury]

Re. my recent thread attempting to establish what the true capability of some of the larger Taiwanese (OAV and Europac) made bandsaws is.

This kind of thread to my mind highlights an absolutely massive problem that goes right through the bandsaw (and DIY/small professional woodworking equipment) businesses - the fact that it's next to impossible to figure anything very much out (other than very basic and possibly heavily skewed information) from the spec sheets and the advertising blurb. It's the same on many of the Italian saws, with only one or two exceptions who address specific applications. e.g. resawing, ability to handle small blade sizes and the like.

Pretty much every saw made is 'the best', and is hyped to death. There are big differences, but far from being highlighted in the literature and the resulting target applications clarified it's hidden. Even at a given size there's heavy duty saws, and others much more lightly built/less well specified.

The Laguna saw listed is not to my (limited) knowledge one of their higher end/heavier duty models - but short of finding somebody credible using the same saw on similar work heaven knows what the story on the Grizzly is either.

For what it's worth I haven't ordered my saw yet - basically because i've not been able to establish the capability of the 24in Taiwanese made saw i was looking at. i.e. does it have resaw capability similar to the heavy duty Italians, or is it in fact just a large capacity but relatively light duty model? One of the Euro importers has promised an answer, but so far we're three weeks in and not a sound. (i'm in Ireland, and unfortunately there don't seem to be any in use here) I've in the meantime just sold on my last saw (a well regarded high end hobby Euro model which in the end showed exactly why the literature was a bit coy on resaw capability - despite 12in of vertical capacity and days invested in set up and $100s on blades it was struggling badly with blade vibration by 5in of resaw depth)

Some of the guys on this and other forums have been more than helpful, but once you strip away the cheerleaders and the like it's next to impossible to get to objective comparative information. (there's very few with comparative experience)

I have the budget to buy a saw, but once gone that's my shot gone. Why should i (or anybody else) be required to take a punt with $2,500 (in Euros, our prices are higher) when despite my having asked the question directly of senior guys at three separate companies/importers each and every one of them has hedged - while their literature (in general terms) meanwhile claims the sun, moon and stars but is almost devoid of meaningful specificity.

So i'm sitting tight until i get some credible answers. In the meantime though - surely the industry can get its sh1t together on this?? What's the point in consistently overselling when the result must be that many punters are walked into buying kit that can only disappoint versus what they expected?

[Greg Roberts]

As Shiraz (who is President of Grizzly, in case you didn't know ;)) points out, both are made overseas. I doubt you'll find anyone who owns both machines, so a direct comparison is going to be hard. My impression is that both machines are well made - neither is an "economy" model.

The Grizz weighs a little more than the Laguna.

But, the Laguna has a Leeson motor, and comes with the ceramic guides (which would cost ~$300, IIRC, to add to the Grizzly). Having used the ceramic guides, I wouldn't give them up.

So in my mind, the plusses for the Laguna would be
+Leeson motor
+Ceramic guides
+Better resale value

I didn't figure I'd find anyone who owned both machines, but there are people who live in areas where they are able to visit a Grizzly store, and maybe a IWF show to see the Laguna.

From what I understand, the strength of the motors on these saws are not really at issue. They both will handle a heavy load. Maybe the Leeson will last longer, I don't know, but it's not really a consideration for me.

Grizzly ceramic guides are available for $79. I thought I'd use the standard ones to start with and see how they work for me. The Laguna guides do get a lot of good press, and they are a consideration for me.

The larger throat capacity and large table of the Grizzly are considerations too.

I'm leaning towards the Grizzly because of the size difference (not resaw, the Laguna actually has larger resaw). I just hope that's not a mistake in terms of the overall build quality.

Greg

[Greg Roberts]

Greg,

Where do you live?

Maybe there are Creekers near you that have the machines you are interested in?

I'm sure a test drive could be arranged.

Fun to meet Creekers. I've met (3).

PHM

Maine.

I think that's so cool that the Saints won the SB. Good for them. I became a Saints fan last year. Stillers are #1 with me though.

Greg

[Van Huskey]

Grizzly ceramic guides are available for $79. I thought I'd use the standard ones to start with and see how they work for me. The Laguna guides do get a lot of good press, and they are a consideration for me.


Greg

Just be aware the Grizzly Euro ceramic guides are nothing like the Laguna guides they are a completely different animal.

I think you have found the key though, buy the saw that fits the saw that fits the work you plan to do. Its like comparing a roadster to a SUV both do the same basic job but neither will do some jobs the other does easily. One has to decide what jobs they want to do before picking, then the choice becomes more obvious.

[John Coloccia]

You are right, John. I have no "axe to grind" with Grizzly, having never been a customer or owner of Grizzly machinery. Therefore I suppose my observation was unqualified and not appropriate.

I have nothing but respect for the fact that Shiraz contributes to these forums personally.

Mike

You, sir, have class.

[Paul McGaha]

Greg,

Thanks for your comment about the Saints. We're very happy with them.

You've got a good team yourself in the Steelers.

I hope it works out threre are people near you that have the saws you are thinking of. To look at a tool up close would be good. To give it a try would be even better. I think I read where Felder/Hammer is really into that kind of thing.

Just my $.02 I'd get the Laguna. No matter what you did later on you'd still have a great 14" saw and it seems a lot of guys prefer to have a big one and a 14" for curves.

PHM

[Mark Woodmark]

Agazzani. Contact Eagle tools and talk to Jesse

[Van Huskey]

Agazzani. Contact Eagle tools and talk to Jesse


Agreed, except Agazzani doesn't have anything in the price range, if he decides to strtch his budget again... :D

[Matt Logana]

As I understand it, both the Laguna LT14 SUV and the Grizzly G0514X2 are made in Taiwan. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


The Grizzly is made in Taiwan and I believe that the Laguna is made in China.

Also, actual G0514X2 owners could chime in - there are lots of them on Sawmill Creek.


From my understanding, the Lower End Lagunas are made in Belgium, whereas the higher tier are made in Italy.

[Dan Friedrichs]

From my understanding, the Lower End Lagunas are made in Belgium, whereas the higher tier are made in Italy.


Some of the lower end ones are also made in China, now. I have a Belgium one, and it is very nice (better fit and finish than any Taiwan-made tool I have).


Anyhow - Greg, don't overlook the value of the Laguna ceramic guides. They really are impressive. Unless the extra throat capacity is really that important to you, the guides alone would be enough to make the decision for me.

[ian maybury]

(pardon this conflicting with the thread direction) I'm in Ireland guys, but there's actually an option to buy a not very used Aggazzani around right now - an NRA 600. (24in) He's asking more than my budget, but it's getting towards time to do some arm wrestling.

Signs are that they are very well made. My only real reservation apart from the cost (plus i'd have to buy a phase converter to run it as it's 3phase) is that it has a 3hp motor and i'm not sure that's enough to resaw with a carbide blade....

ian

[Van Huskey]

From my understanding, the Lower End Lagunas are made in Belgium, whereas the higher tier are made in Italy.


They have three different "sources" for Laguna saws.

The larger (18" and above) upper end saws are made in Italy.

The smaller upper level saws are made in Bulgaria.

The 3000 series and the SUV are made in Asia.

Every one of their saws are solid compared to saws in their price range.

[Greg Roberts]

Thank you to everyone who responded. This is a great forum.

I'm still undecided, but still leaning towards the Grizzly. The larger table and 5" additional throat capacity just look too good to pass up. I've spent a lot of time studying the pictures of each of these saws, and they both look like they are very well made. I think the Laguna shows a bit higher quality in the metal work and pieces of the saw, but not enough to offset the bigger size of the Grizzly.

I'll come back with pictures once I get one of these saws.

Greg