Major tool purchases

[Mark Woodmark]

How many purchase your large stationary power tools off the Internet? How many purchase locally so as to see them in person first? How many enjoy the search for the best quality, best functioning, best price tool almost as much as owning and using that tool? Some say, like collecting, the search is more fun than the actual purchase

[Gene Waara]

I just bought my first internet purchase, a G690 table saw from Grizzly and I'm still setting it up. All my other large tools have been bought locally, many from CL. I agree the hunt is a huge part of the fun. If you have not seen the one man play "Defending the Caveman", go see it. My wife definitely tells me I am a hunter. Forums like SMC and the internet allow me to gather a rediculous amount of information. I rely heavily on the opinions of fellow ww's and have not been disappointed yet.

[Will Overton]

I buy 90% of my large tools online. Amazon mostly, but recently Tools-Plus, Woodcraft and Grizzly have gotten some of my business. The main reason is that there is only one tool store in the state that stocks the major brands, and they are 50 miles away.

Before moving to Delaware, I could find pretty much anything I wanted and be there and back in less than an hour. I generally go to the manufacturers' sites to see the specs, narrow the choice down to just a couple and then ask for any comments on those couple of choices. At that point I have already rejected everything else, so ignore all the responses that are not on topic.

I couldn't find an online dealer to sell me a SawStop (they have restricted territories), so I'm waiting for mine to come in at WoodCraft ... yeah, that place that's 50 miles away.

I look around a bit for the best deal, but will pay a little more to buy from a vendor I've dealt with successfully in the past.

I don't buy used.

Having large tools delivered is also more convenient them picking them up. They alway put the item directly into my garage/shop.

[Cliff Holmes]

I bought my sawstop, bandsaw & lathe from the local woodcraft because they worked to beat online prices. Drum sander off craiglist. Drill press, cyclone, 8" jointer, and previous table saw from Grizzly.

[Jeff Monson]

I have bought about 50% locally and 50% over the net. My jointer/planer, shaper and drum sander were all purchased over the internet, with free shipping and no sales tax it is hard to pass up. I still give my local ww store the first chance if its a tool they normally sell....but more often than not they can not beat internet pricing. I set my limit at $100.00 on larger tool purchases, if I can save over that amount I order online, if not I'll keep my business local.

[Chris Tsutsui]

When it comes down to it, resellers get their products from warehouses anyways, so when you order a tool online you can basically cut out the reseller.

I will buy a tool online without seeing it in person if it gets reputable reviews from users like on this forum. Plus pictures and detailed descriptions help as well.

[Lance Norris]

Ive purchased quite a few tools from Amazon and Grizzly. I agree that researching a tool online and also asking for comments here at the Creek is enjoyable. I have purchased 2 tools at Woodcraft online.

[Dave Lehnert]

How many bug the local dealer getting info, touch and feel only to buy it on-line?

I have come close to buying large tools on-line but always back out in the end. I purchased a JET cabinet saw from a local dealer. I had the bad luck of getting defective fence. When the 2nd fence came in also defective my dealer gave me a choice of any fence in stock I wanted. If I had purchased that saw on-line it would have been a nightmare.

Buying on-line is good till you have a problem.

For about two years now I have wanted the Grizzly 513X2 bandsaw. I just keep putting it off because of the hassle if damaged. I am 100% confident that Grizzly would take care of any problems, just do I want the hassle.
If that saw was available local It would have been in my shop two years ago.

[Paul McGaha]

I bought a shaper used (from a creeker). Other than that all the tools in my shop were bought new and on line. Used to use toolcrib@amazon.com a lot, Currently using toolsplus but would be openminded to buying from toolnut as they are highly regarded here at sawmill creek.

There's a Woodcraft store near me that I support but that's usually drawer slides, hardware, etc. I dont think that stores like Woodcraft can price things as sharply as toolsplus or similar.

PHM

[Rod Sheridan]

I've never purchased online because;

1) I like to look at the machines prior to making a decision

2) I believe in purchasing from the local dealer since they've invested the time, effort and money into helping me make the best decision

3) The dealer is the one that provides customer support for me when I have a problem.

4) If I don't support my local dealer they won't be around when I need accessories, sandpaper, drill bits etc.

Years ago I had a problem assembling the splitter on a General 650 cabinet saw. The dealer had the General FSE call me to arrange an at home visit to install the splitter, free of charge.

The General FSE was able to ascertain that the manual instructions were incorrect and that the spacer went on the other side of the splitter. He then phoned me back to inform me of that, and ask if I wanted him to come to my house and install it, or do it myself.

I've purchased two Hammer machines, both of which the dealer spent many hours of time helping me choose the options and accessories I wanted on the machines.

In addition the dealer spent time evaluating what I wanted to do with the machine, and provided useful information to convince me to buy the smaller, less expensive machine.

These are the sort of support issues you get with a knowledgeable, professional local dealer.

These aren't the sort of support items you get from an Internet order provider.......They probably don't even have Field Service Engineers.

Regards, Rod.

[Brett Nelson]

Must buy internet here. We have a very poor local selection. Not gonna drive 90 miles only to pay more for the same thing.

Usually it'll be CL for used like 80gal. IR compressor.

Ebay for things like nailers and other pneumatic tools.

Woodcraft and Grizzly type sites for large tools like jointers, bandsaws. etc.

[Mark Woodmark]

How many bug the local dealer getting info, touch and feel only to buy it on-line?

I have come close to buying large tools on-line but always back out in the end. I purchased a JET cabinet saw from a local dealer. I had the bad luck of getting defective fence. When the 2nd fence came in also defective my dealer gave me a choice of any fence in stock I wanted. If I had purchased that saw on-line it would have been a nightmare.

Buying on-line is good till you have a problem.

For about two years now I have wanted the Grizzly 513X2 bandsaw. I just keep putting it off because of the hassle if damaged. I am 100% confident that Grizzly would take care of any problems, just do I want the hassle.
If that saw was available local It would have been in my shop two years ago.

You could take a mini vacation to one of the Grizzly showrooms in either Muncy, PA or Springfeild, MO. You could get to either in a day from Ohio. I purchase 98% of my tools and about 50% of my consumables online. I have noticed the sellers bend over backwards to fix problems with online orders

[Will Overton]

For about two years now I have wanted the Grizzly 513X2 bandsaw. I just keep putting it off because of the hassle if damaged. I am 100% confident that Grizzly would take care of any problems, just do I want the hassle.
If that saw was available local It would have been in my shop two years ago.

Here's the thing with Grizzly. Something comes damaged, you make a phone call, they send a new one. Less hassle than going back to the store.

I got a Powermatic bandsaw from Amazon. The base (separate box) was damaged, but the saw was fine. Amazon was willing to take the whole thing back, but rather than take the chance of the new one coming with the working part damaged, I called Powermatic. They sent the new base out the same day.

A Craftsman table saw came with some minor scratches in the top and one wing. I called Orion, the manufacturer, and asked the best way to sand out the scratches. They insisted on sending me a new top and wing, which are still sitting the the packing crates.

Bottom line, dealing with most online purchases, which may include shipping damage, the sellers or manufacturers take care of it "Hassle Free".


Go order that saw you want ... you'll thank me later.:D

[Mike Cruz]

Just about all, in fact, all of my equipment has been used. So, I've used the internet to find the tools (CL), then go see it. I haven't just bought simply on price. I feel I've gotten good equipment for the price. I certainly don't have top of the line anything. But I do have more than just every day hobby stuff.

Yes, the joy of the search is a big part of the ownership. There is a story to each piece. I've really enjoyed the bargaining and uprading.

[glenn bradley]

I buy off the web. Distribution warehouse to my house with maybe a trailer swap in between. Less chance of damage . .. come to think of it I have never had to return something large for damage. This may not be true if your last mile is up a winding dirt road and 400 miles from the nearest major hub but, up and down the coast, it's a pretty good bet.

[mreza Salav]

Although I have purchased other things online, but never a major tool (things like router bit etc, yes).
Major tools were purchased locally (either new or used).

[Steve Rowe]

I purchase stationary machinery after inspection at either the IWF or AWFS. Local is virtually non-existent except for Lowes or Ace Hardware. They carry machines that I have absolutely no interest in. The nearest 'locals' (Woodcraft, Ballew, or Grizzly) are about a 3-1/2 hr drive.

[Dave Lehnert]

I purchase stationary machinery after inspection at either the IWF or AWFS. Local is virtually non-existent except for Lowes or Ace Hardware. They carry machines that I have absolutely no interest in. The nearest 'locals' (Woodcraft, Ballew, or Grizzly) are about a 3-1/2 hr drive.

Guess I'm lucky living in Cincinnati. I have 4 places within 20min from home I can buy JET and other brand equipment.

[Van Huskey]

Mark, I love the process of shopping for something just about as much as using it... :D I have learned I don't have to touch something first to make a good purchasing decision, one just has to learn what person's opinions to trust.

[Kirk Poore]

In thinking about the stationary tool aquisitions I've made, only in 5 cases were they on-line ads or ebay where I couldn't examine the tool in person. The rest (about 80%) were somewhat local--Craigslist, friends, inheritances, local retailers, or auctions where I could see what I was getting. Of course, 80% of these were used machines, too, where you need to check in person to know what you're getting.

Kirk

[Thom Porterfield]

I inherited all my stationary tools (unisaw, drill press, jointer, grinder, disk sander) but one: I bought a Rikon 14" band saw.

I researched features vs. price online, at brick-and-mortar stores and used. I saw the Pioneer saw in person at a local tool supplyer. I was horrified anyone would market such a thing. I looked at Steel City, Delta, Grizzly saws at various stores, in Portland, 165 miles from me. I inspected the saw I bought on the showroom floor at Woodcraft, another 15 miles farther away.

I'm looking for a thickness planer. I am generally unimpressed with what I see locally: Pioneer, Dewalt, Delta, Rigid, Craftsman. I am dreading the necessity of completing the jewelry cabinet for SWMBO in time for Christmas using hand planes. But I've decided it's not worth buying less than optimal machinery.

[ian maybury]

I've just posted on the bandsaw buying thread (see paste in below) on the minefield that this issue represents - primarily because machine makers tend to hype everything to death, and make little effort to realistically portray machine capability on the various sorts of task they may be asked to do.

Some of us i'm sure don't have that much alternative but to buy off the web based on brochure and spec sheet information i guess.

That's the case over here (Ireland) - it's very small market so (a) stuff is often not even available to inspect, and (b) there's a major shortage of other users in a position to provide feedback - never mind experience based comparisons.

It's very rare for a dealer to tell it like it is - so there's little option but to do a lot of research. Forums can be useful, but you need to have lots of time to look for long enough for a consistent picture to emerge - individual posts can be so misleading.

Going to look at the piece of equipment isn't always that big a help either, not at least unless you are quite experienced, and have a good engineering eye.

Am i the only one that's teed off with the hype, misleading phrasing and weasel words in machine literature?

ian

'Re. my recent thread attempting to establish what the true capability of some of the larger Taiwanese (OAV and Europac) made bandsaws.

This kind of thread to my mind highlights an absolutely massive problem that goes right through the bandsaw (and DIY/small professional woodworking equipment) businesses - the fact that it's next to impossible to figure anything very much out (other than very basic and possibly heavily skewed information) from the spec sheets and the advertising blurb. It's the same on many of the Italian saws, with only one or two exceptions who address specific applications. e.g. resawing, ability to handle small blade sizes and the like.

Pretty much every saw made is 'the best', and is hyped to death. There are big differences, but far from being highlighted in the literature and the resulting target applications clarified it's hidden. Even at a given size there's heavy duty saws, and others much more lightly built/less well specified...........

......For what it's worth I haven't ordered my saw yet - basically because i've not been able to establish the capability of the 24in Taiwanese made saw i was looking at. i.e. does it have resaw capability similar to the heavy duty Italians, or is it in fact just a large capacity but relatively light duty model?

One of the Euro importers has promised an answer, but so far we're three weeks in and not a sound. (i'm in Ireland, and unfortunately there don't seem to be any in use here)

I've in the meantime just sold on my last saw (a well regarded high end hobby Euro model which in the end showed exactly why the literature was a bit coy on resaw capability - despite 12in of vertical capacity and days invested in set up and $100s on blades it was struggling badly with blade vibration by 5in of resaw depth)

Some of the guys on this and other forums have been more than helpful, but once you strip away the cheerleaders and the like it's next to impossible to get to objective comparative information. (there's very few with comparative experience anyway)

I have the budget to buy a saw, but once gone that's my shot gone. Why should i (or anybody else) be required to take a punt with $2,500 (in Euros, our prices are higher) when despite my having asked the question directly of senior guys at three separate companies/importers each and every one of them has hedged - while their literature (in general terms) meanwhile claims the sun, moon and stars but is almost devoid of meaningful specificity.

So i'm sitting tight until i get some credible answers. In the meantime though - surely the industry can get its sh1t together on this?? What's the point in consistently overselling when the result must be that many punters are walked into buying kit that can only disappoint versus what they expected? '

[Will Overton]

Am i the only one that's teed off with the hype, misleading phrasing and weasel words in machine literature?




I don't understand an Irishman being teed off that somebody might be kissing the;



http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd75/Bill_de/blarney.jpg


:D

[Mark Woodmark]

Mark, I love the process of shopping for something just about as much as using it... :D I have learned I don't have to touch something first to make a good purchasing decision, one just has to learn what person's opinions to trust.

Van, You are so right. You and I have some things in common. I love to shop on line and I dont need to see it in person either. I search for opinions and tool test during the shopping process

[ian maybury]

;) Perhaps Will i'm suffering from over exposure. Suffice to say that this wouldn't be the culture to draw from if you're looking for more accurate literature..

In the end though i'm an engineer by training and by inclination, and am more comfortable in situations where specification data (barring genuine errors or misinterpretations) is relied on - where playing fast and loose with the data could well land you in court.....

ian

[Will Overton]

where playing fast and loose with the data could well land you in court.....

As it should be, but that would put all the Madison Ave. firms out of business. :)