Can someone help me out with these Plywood grades?

[dirk martin]

What on earth is going on with this grading system, for plywoods?
I mean, I'm normally a solid wood kinda guy, and I sell a lot of thin wood to scroll sawyers. Now I've got some folks asking if I carry plywood....so I looked into it. HUH?

I can get Baltic Birch in any of these grades: BB/BB, B/BB, BB/CP
White Ash plywood is only available to me in grade B2, but Alder in A1, A4, or Rustic.

What's that all about?

And then White Birch can be gotten in A2, B3 Import, or C2 Import.

I did some searching on the web, and can't find a single source for all these plywood grades. Some sites talk about BB/BB, and B/BB, but not the others.

Is there no complete source out there on plywood grades?
This just blows me away, especially when solid lumber grading sites are easily found.

[glenn bradley]

Q: What are these grades? They don't look familiar.
They are indeed different from the domestic grades many of us are used to seeing. Baltic Birch is manufactured in accordance with the Russian export GOST 3916.1-96 standards. We have simplified the extensive list to what you see below. The baltic birch full grading standard is available online.

B----Selected one-piece face, generally light and even in color. Occasional small pin knots and some brown streaks may be allowed, but generally no patches, voids or mineral streaks. Sanded surface intended for natural finish.

BB-One-piece face generally light and even in color. Pin knots and mineral streaking or discoloration is allowed with occasional sound tight knots permitted. Open knots and defects in BB face veneers have been cut out and replaced with small oval or round veneer "football" patches before gluing. The veneer selected for the patches is of the same general color as the face veneer. Sanded surface.

CP-One-piece face very close to grade BB. Rejected from BB for small defects with more streaking. Occasional hairline splits of less than .5mm are allowed. The oval or round patches may or may not be matched for color with the base face veneer. There will normally be more patches per face than the BB grade. Sanded surface.

C---Patches, open knots and veneer splits allowed. Not sanded.

From http://alliedveneer.com/what-is-baltic-birch.html

[dirk martin]

ok, well that covers Baltic Birch...but what about these A1, A2, B2, B3, and C2 Import gradings I'm seeing? Dare I even mention the grade of PBB/CC I'm seeing on Luan and Okoume?

[Joe Chritz]

www.hvpa.org will cover all the hardwood products. Construction sheet goods use a different standard that I have never looked into.

The standards are for purchase and I never cared enough to buy them so I don't have the full list.

Generally the letter is the good side. AA, A, B, etc in order of best to worst. The number is the off side, 1,2,3,4 in order of best to worst.

I use a lot of B2 grade that I get locally and it is pretty good stuff. Things like sap, pin holes, etc change the grade it is in.

Joe

[dirk martin]

So, which is better?
B/BB or A1....

I'd think A1. If so, is A1 the best?

[Peter Quinn]

So, which is better?
B/BB or A1....

I'd think A1. If so, is A1 the best?

Better? Its almost an apples and oranges situation. Most of the baltic birch has lots of thin even plys, is pretty well made, some has exterior glue, its all very strong, fairly flat and very stable. But its all ugly. Yes, butt ugly utility stuff. Good for drawer sides in basic cabinets, shelves maybe, but not a real looker. Its mostly rotary sliced weird looking veneer even in the best face grade, and its birch, which is coarse and ruddy at best. So unless you want your cabinets to look like that IKEA muck, Russian birch is mainly out of the question. It makes great jigs, a good substrate for veneers, good engineered flooring an nice scroll puzzles for kids toys though! Think cover this crap up". Its pricey too!

A1 hardwood plywood (domestic or Canadian) on the other hand can be quite attractive.The grading is mostly an aesthetic one. Its faces are not generally rotary sawn and look more like real wood. Often they are series of book matched slices of a flitch. A is a grade that applies to many different "species", so you could get A1 maple, walnut, cherry, oak, etc. Baltic birch only come in one species. You may be able to source a domestic A1 plywood that is laid up on a 13 layer core with A1 face veneers, but I don't see that much at work. Mostly the A1 is maybe 11 ply, and mostly its a poplar veneer core, though I recently saw a product that was a combi core which consisted of an 11 layer 1/2" core that looked like baltic birch, then a 3/32" layer of MDF on each face as the final substrate for the face veneers which in this case were walnut. Nice stuff.

Is A1 the best? If you mean is it the highest grade, then no. AA is a higher architectural grade, and it means there is no B face, both are "A"'s. When a letter grade then number grade are used the letter refers to the primary show face, the number is the grade of the secondary face, or what I call the B face. So AA has two perfect show faces. Which is better? The one that fills your needs at the lowest cost, Why buy AA if one face will face a wall or possibly just be a cabinet interior? With domestic hardwood plywood there are lots of grades at different price points with similar "core" construction but different grades of face veneers, and in my mind the question is not "Which one is best" but which grade best suits the job at hand.

[Peter Quinn]

Dirk, here is a link to a nice clear article on the subject of plywood grading and uses that might be of interest to you.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/choose_the_right_plywood/