Stanley #62 mouth repair

[James Taglienti]

I got a #62 at a flea market this weekend. I'd like to use it but of course the back of the mouth is chipped away, along with a portion of the cutter bed. The damage is in the center and the corners are still ok. I got it working and it did well until i tried to take some more aggressive cuts and it started dipping and flexing the cutter. I was thinking of milling or filing a square groove across the body of the plane and replacing the back of the mouth entirely with a piece of steel. Then i'd re file the bed angle. Any other suggestions?

[Jonathan McCullough]

Seems like a reasonable solution. I haven't done any of this type of cast iron surgery, but from what I can gather, this'd be my MO:
1. strip japanning
2. file chipped mouth square
3. fashion a graft piece
4. preheat both pieces to highest temp in oven
5. apply flux & plumber's solder to joint area on both pieces separately
6. reheat both pieces
7. put pieces together & heat with bernzomatic until the solder melts; allow them to freeze together
8. put assembly back in oven and turn off the heat; allow the pieces to cool slowly
9. file/lap new piece to suit

[James Taglienti]

Here is a picture of the busted mouth and also a glamor shot AND an action photo...

I am starting to think that I may just want to leave well enough alone. But if it frustrates me in the future i will be performing an operation and I still would like to know what you guys would do.

[Jim Koepke]

That is a heck of a flea market find. It really depends on how much you invested in this to determine what the best approach might be.

My understanding is the Stanley #62 was prone to this kind of damage. Your pictures look like there may be some cracking at the corners.

I do not know enough metallurgy to know if silver solder or plumbers solder would hold this together better than it was made originally. If it was not better, then it would be subject to the same damage if used.

When looking at the #62 as my shooting workhorse, I decided to leave the Stanley model to the collectors and to purchase a new one from Lie Nielsen.

jim

[James Taglienti]

Jim- there arent any corner cracks there- im afraid if there were, the plane would be useless. The only thing supporting the blade out there are those two unbroken tabs that are left in the corners of the mouth. Still, some cracks may show up if I keep using it this way..

I think you were right to go with the newer BU jack. This plane works well and is comfortable, but it has a flimsy feel and is clearly prone to self destruct. I was pleased to see that the cutter is thicker than a normal stanley. perhaps the guys in the "beta group" for the #62 reported some mouth-shattering as well.

The flea markets are pretty good here but i certainly don't walk around expecting to find 62's for $20. Normally I'm lucky to find a 3 or a 4 1/2.
But regardless- if I try to fix the bed and screw it up, it's not a $20 mistake it's more like $75 for a new bed, or just scrap the whole project and sell off the parts.

[steve swantee]

If it were mine James, I think I would be tempted to just dress the broken edges with a file and find out if LN or someone else makes a thicker iron for this plane. At least this might help with the more agressive cuts.
Steve

[Harlan Barnhart]

For what its worth, I have a 607 that has an 1 1/2" chunk busted out and soldered back in the toe. The repair was done reasonably well but the heat generated by the soldering warped the sole so that the mouth is nearly 1/16" high. Maybe someone failed to relieve the pressure of the frog/blade assembly before heating or maybe that much heat is just a bad idea. I have been working at flattening it little by little but I usually give up after and hour or so and put it back in the "needs work" pile.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Harlan, was it soldered or welded? I have a #6 that was welded, but most of the original japanning is still there, and it has the same kinds of problems. I don't think that the temperatures required for stress relief are conducive to keeping japanning. I'm not a welder, but I know that when you heat a localized area hot enough to melt welding rod, it introduces stresses to the metal so that when it cools, it cools unevenly and therefore is prone to warping. This can happen weeks after a piece of metal has come to room temperature. I read an instance of where a machining company was boring cylinders in engines. When they tried to bore to spec, the stresses introduced in the casting process was relieved, and all their work was ruined as the cylinders warped. The solution was to bore a hole close to spec, wait a few days for the stresses to warp their perfect cylinders, then feather in to the final specified diameter.

Solder has a much lower melting point compared to welding rod (off the top of my head, 800ºF versus 2000+ºF) and you can get an oven close to 600ºF, so that's why I suggested that, but I have to admit, I've never tried it. Bob Smalser made jerry-rigged a high angle frog using this technique and it seemed to work for him. When it comes to wood working implements that are found already ruined, I don't think it's bad to resort to extreme measures to try to fix them--if you know what you're doing. Even if you don't succeed, the broken implement was not in working order in the first place, n'est-ce pas?

[Harlan Barnhart]

Jonathan, I assume it was soldered since the "bead" is brass colored but I am far from an expert.

[Jonathan McCullough]

My #6 has that bronze rod colored bead too. I'm assuming it's a weld, not soldering job. Looking further in to this, Smalser advises against my advice so I guess it's bunk. Maybe it'd be easier to make a #62!

[Chris Vandiver]

Harlan, It sounds like your plane is brazed.

I have heard somewhere that welding under water keeps steel from warping.

[James Taglienti]

Thanks for all the data- most of the time when i see a plane with a crooked or warped sole it's because someone brazed or welded the cheek, and i assume they just didn't have it aligned when they did the repair. I bought a #6 2 weeks ago that looked to be in VGC with all it's japanning and when i got it home and examined it, there was a very old weld to the cheek. They did a great job and must have done it when the plane was almost new, but the sole is still crooked.

I think that I'll use the plane as is for a while. If necessary I'll pick up the 1/8" thick cutter from LN and try that. If that fails, I'll mill out the chipped mouth and tap, screw, and epoxy in a new one.

I used the #62 for a couple hours yesterday to prep some cabinet parts and it was performing acceptably. It slices through end grain nicely, much easier than putting a death grip on a tiny little 60 1/2, which i almost need a running start for.