Storm window wood choice

[Matt Schroeder]

My brother recently purchased a 100 year old house. He has a few of the original storm windows but would like some more made before the winter winds hit Columbus, OH. I told him I would make some frames (copying the existing) as a housewarming gift. He will paint them and mount the glass. Would a properly primed and painted poplar frame (lowest cost) stand up to winter weather (basement storage for the summer) or should a more outdoor friendly wood be chosen? What wood would you recommend?

Thanks,
Matt

[Tim Lawson]

We're teaching making storm sashes at the moment and the preferred wood we're using is Sugar Pine. That said I think if you use good quality primer and an oil based finish which you maintain you'll get great service out of them.

Tim

[Steven Green]

Fir or Cypress would be my choice. I restore old homes for a living. Cypress is lower cost and will last longer than fir but either one is fine.

[Trace Beard]

I wouldn't use poplar, it doesn't hold up very well in harsh conditions.

I like to use old growth pine. I can usually pick up some old 2 x4's or small beams at a local architectural salvage yard very cheap. Just make sure to check of imbedded metal.

Here's a great source of information regarding old houses, windows...

http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/index.htm

Trace

[Myk Rian]

I wouldn't use poplar, it doesn't hold up very well in harsh conditions.
Poplar doesn't hold up in ANY conditions. It's the first thing to rot.
I made a screen window for the garage out of cherry a few years ago. Holding up OK so far.
Didn't seal or paint it, yet.

[Peter Quinn]

Poplar rots quick as an exterior product IME. One of my very last choices no matter how well its painted. No natural rot protection, and its mostly a fast grower that moves a lot and sheds paint in the process. I think you would do better with cypress, fir or african mahogany in the long run. Or maybe spanish cedar if that is available to you. There is more work than wood in a storm window, so it would be a shame to make them twice.

[Matt Schroeder]

Thank you for the replies. I have some cypress outdoor furniture I made 15 years ago that has been out all year with no treatment and it still looks pretty good so I know that is a good outdoor wood. How well does it take paint? These frames will be painted to match the existing trim.

[Kevin Begos]

Cypress takes paint just fine.

[Neal Clayton]

cypress has a watery sap that can cause primer problems with the new 'low VOC' primers that the paint makers are selling, i never saw it with the old A100 sherwin williams primer but the new SW primer i've heard of folks having issues with.

see this (http://www.historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1620) thread, sash maker on that site had some trouble with it, for whatever reason.

either way, in all of the sashes i've built, i use whatever i have nearby that could be called an oil sealer first. some half/half blo and turp, some some leftover waterlox floor finish, some penetrol, etc, and let that dry for a day before priming. never had any problems. so an oil sealer i think is a wise first step before painting. if nothing else it'll help the primer grab a bit better which should help paint longevity.

unless these storms will be functional, i would use an oil primer and an acrylic paint. acrylics will last quite a bit longer than modern oil enamels, and fail more gracefully. i only use oil enamels where there will be abrasion (on the sashes themselves). if they are to be functional and there will be abrasion along the frame, he'll probably have to opt for the oil enamel.

as with any wooden window sash, preferable to use through tenons or bridles for the joinery and leave the edges of the sash unfinished. you can't stop water from getting in when the paint fails, so the next best thing is leaving a path for it to get out, that being the edges and end grain showing through the joints.

make sure to use a water-resistant glue (at least TB3, alternatively gorilla glue or PL adhesive or other poly glue, or epoxy)

also recommend oversizing the sash by a half inch or more all the way around and cutting it to fit after assembly. first rule of old houses, nothing is square or level or plumb anymore ;). if it's oversized you can always cut it crooked if the frame is way off square to make it fit.

and remind him to glaze shy of the inside of the muntin edge by about a 1/16th and paint that last bit, the paint needs to extend past the putty on to the glass to seal it effectively.

if they're gonna be stained on the inside i just use clear acrylic caulk as a bed rather than bothering to color the glazing putty (sue me, it's easier). since that's just a bed for the glass and sees no weather it should last indefinitely.

i really hate dap33, although it works. if he uses dap33 he'll have to wait a week or so for it to skin over before it can be painted. the better alternative aimed at historic restoration folks these days is called sarco type M, it's available online in small quantities. it oxidizes slower, so will take longer to skin over before paint, but due to that it also lasts longer.

that's about all the gotchas i can think of for a quick layman course on glazing/painting of traditional windows.

if he has any other questions the site trace linked has great video tutorials on historic window sash maintenance/repair/etc that should demonstrate everything he needs to know to get them glazed and painted.

[Brice Burrell]

Neal, that's a great post, well done sir.

[Michael Panis]

as with any wooden window sash, preferable to use through tenons or bridles for the joinery and leave the edges of the sash unfinished. you can't stop water from getting in when the paint fails, so the next best thing is leaving a path for it to get out, that being the edges and end grain showing through the joints...

Thanks! Now I know why my old doors were built like that!

---Mike

[Josiah Bartlett]

In addition, prime the sashes before you put in the glass- you need the primer between the glazing compound and the wood or the wood will dry out the glazing compound and it will crack off.

[Neal Clayton]

Thanks! Now I know why my old doors were built like that!

---Mike

yep, that's why. whenever you have paint rubbing on wood and metal directly as you do in a traditional door or window with wooden jambs and metal weather stripping the paint will wear off, there's no avoiding that. so given that, if the edges and end grain in joints are exposed the whole door or window will acclimate and remain fairly stable on a season by season basis, regardless of the paint condition. if you paint the whole and only have spot failures in paint, that's where water gets in and gets trapped, causing rot and mold and other premature decay.

josiah's point is the one i forgot (i knew there would be at least one, stupid brain! ;)). it is a good idea to seal the rabbets with something, be it your primer or some other type of sealer, lest the wood drink all the oil from the glazing putty causing it to fail prematurely.

[Matt Schroeder]

Thank you to all who responded with helpful tips on this project. I am using bridle joints, and he will be considering all of the finishing tips before selecting his final approach. We chose cypress so our handiwork (and mistakes!) should last a long time. With all your help the windows should turn out great.

A sincere thank you to all,
Matt