the new 2011 Buick Regal

[Dave Lehnert]

Have you seen the new Buick Regal WOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Swjzczx5Q&feature=related

[David Weaver]

It looks like a copy of the Audi A4 and Volkswagen passat, at least in the approach.

Anyone who has driven a turbocharged audi or VW will know that the mileage isn't that great. It's about the same as a V6 with equivalent horsepower, but you're stuck buying premium fuel for it.

(my wife has a VW turbo - she got it right before we met).

I'm not sold on turbochargers on gasoline engines for anything other than performance. They are being marketed now as an "efficient" alternative to a v6, but in my experience in every day driving, it doesn't pan out (especially when you consider the cost of fuels), and the turbocharger plumbing makes working on them a pain in the arse - the engine compartment is more crowded than a V6 between the radiator and the engine.

They're (the turbochargers themselves) also something costly to replace if you intend to keep your car for a long time.

Do they help meet emissions or something? I just don't get it.

[Pat Germain]

I'm pretty much baffled by your experience with turbo cars, David. I've been driving a turbo Jetta for seven years. It's a great car with a great engine. And the turbo does in fact improve mileage. I can get better than 35 MPG on the highway. That's from a 4 banger with 180 hp.

I personally know people who have installed performance chips in their Jettas. Not only was there an amazing boost in power, but fuel economy as well. This is because the chip allows the turbo to work harder.

Also, my Jetta is a blast to drive in the Colorado mountains. I can effortlessly go over Vail pass in overdrive. The higher the altitude, the more the turbo helps.

Newer turbos last a lot longer than they used to. But you are correct that they are expensive to replace.

Now, as for the Buick, I really like the fact it has a turbo V6. Otherwise, it looks like... A Buick.

[David Weaver]

I'm pretty much baffled by your experience with turbo cars, David. I've been driving a turbo Jetta for seven years. It's a great car with a great engine. And the turbo does in fact improve mileage. I can get better than 35 MPG on the highway. That's from a 4 banger with 180 hp.

I personally know people who have installed performance chips in their Jettas. Not only was there an amazing boost in power, but fuel economy as well. This is because the chip allows the turbo to work harder.

Also, my Jetta is a blast to drive in the Colorado mountains. I can effortlessly go over Vail pass in overdrive. The higher the altitude, the more the turbo helps.

Newer turbos last a lot longer than they used to. But you are correct that they are expensive to replace.

Now, as for the Buick, I really like the fact it has a turbo V6. Otherwise, it looks like... A Buick.

that is exactly the car that I have - the 180 horsepower version. On the turnpike, I can get about 31 miles per gallon out of it at 70 miles per hour.

In mostly local driving, if I drive it and baby it, 24 miles to the gallon.

Compare that to the accord ex v6 coupe I had previously, which had 60 more horsepower, and another 300 pounds of weight. it was not uncommon to get 34 or more miles to the gallon with it on trips (best tank on a trip was 35.4, best tank on the jetta IIRC is 32), and that was on gas that's 30 cents cheaper a gallon. Around town mileage was about 1 more than the jetta on each given tank (i *always* record the tank mileage each tank as well as the overall long-term mileage).

Other annoying things about the jetta:
* sooner or later you need a water pump or thermostat - it is completely obscured by the plumbing. I stood in front of it and rolled under it with the service manual in hand with pictures and had a bear of a time just even finding it
* the turbocharger has a limited life. I haven't had to change mine yet, but a friend did their passat a couple of years ago at 80k miles. Even if you do the work yourself, it's not cheap
* having the turbocharger in the first place mandates the use of synthetic oil, particularly 5w-40. I mail order it, it's still cheaper than buying it local, but $40 for five liters of Pentosin brand
* the timing belt change recommendation in the service manual has been updated from 100,000 miles to 60,000, since experience apparently has shown a high failure rate long before the original requirement. No clue why that is, but presumably nothing to do with the turbocharger.

As far as ECU upgrades, I see them from time to time. IIRC, they are in the $500 range, some more. I have zero interest in stuff like that. A car to me is something to get from A to B and to do it with the least cost and least time with me working on it. Takes a lot of driving at an extra MPG to make up $500. Depending on how those upgrades are set up, some of them have mondo boost in everyday driving at low rpms. Not great for drivetrains, especially if objective number 1 is getting the car to run as long as possible without having to work on it.

Anyway, for all of that futzing around mentioned above, the comparable list of issues in the honda v6 (which as noted gets essentially the same mileage if I make the claim that the stick in the honda allowed me to econo drive and thus the 1 or 2 mpg better than the VW, which has an automatic)..none. No issues in the honda. Relatively easy to work on with the one annoying issue being busting knuckles to change headlamp bulbs.

I'm sold in turbochargers on diesel engines, especially before they ruined them with emissions. But on gas? No.

I also live in an area with a lot of hills, but they tend to be shorter and steeper than in the west. That plays havoc with around town mileage. Most stoplights are at the bottoms of hills - I guess that must be a safety issue. It's the worst for mileage and brakes. It seems to limit my mileage in cars to a lot closer to what the EPA says is real world driving, though I'm not discounting your experience. I'm sure I could do better if I had more gradual hills and flatter highways to drive.

http://www.gas-mileage.us/years/2004/makes/volkswagen/models/jetta-wagon

[David Weaver]

Now, as for the Buick, I really like the fact it has a turbo V6. Otherwise, it looks like... A Buick.

I gather from some of the comments that the 2.0 is a 4 cylinder and the v6 is a foreign option.

[Dave Lehnert]

If you meant the company that's employing thousands of Americans.... It's General Motors. Still a highly respected American company making cars that are produced and sold all over the world.

I prefer to show some respect for the stuff that hasn't been sold to China... yet. How about it?
.

On CNN yesterday they said China is buying up the Regal like crazy.

[Dave Lehnert]

I'm pretty much baffled by your experience with turbo cars, David. I've been driving a turbo Jetta for seven years. It's a great car with a great engine. And the turbo does in fact improve mileage. I can get better than 35 MPG on the highway. That's from a 4 banger with 180 hp.

I personally know people who have installed performance chips in their Jettas. Not only was there an amazing boost in power, but fuel economy as well. This is because the chip allows the turbo to work harder.

Also, my Jetta is a blast to drive in the Colorado mountains. I can effortlessly go over Vail pass in overdrive. The higher the altitude, the more the turbo helps.

Newer turbos last a lot longer than they used to. But you are correct that they are expensive to replace.

Now, as for the Buick, I really like the fact it has a turbo V6. Otherwise, it looks like... A Buick.

You think it looks like a Buick? My mom has owned Buicks for years and don't think it looks anything like the Buick of yesterday.

[David Weaver]

You think it looks like a Buick? My mom has owned Buicks for years and don't think it looks anything like the Buick of yesterday.

Buick makes me think of the nasty skylark and the roadmaster wagon.

Beautiful cars back in the early '50s and before. After that, other than the GNX....

At least some of the regals had sleeper engines in them, even if they screamed "i wear a belt and suspenders at the same time" on behalf of the driver.

[Mitchell Andrus]

On CNN yesterday they said China is buying up the Regal like crazy.

Better than them coming here to buy GM like crazy.
.

[David Weaver]

GM has done most of their expansion in china, haven't they? There was a big uproar with the bailout money being "used to build factories in china", or some other such nonsense like that.

Might as well build them where you're going to sell them. Also, they're still a business and they still need to make money! It would be nice if they could figure out how to manufacture batteries over there, but I haven't heard anything linking them (GM) to that. Suppose the batteries for the volt and their normal hybrids are made either in china or south korea?

[Ken Garlock]

Good morning.

My financial planner claims that there would not be a Buick brand if were not for the Chinese buying them left and right. :confused:

[Bob Turkovich]

GM has done most of their expansion in china, haven't they? There was a big uproar with the bailout money being "used to build factories in china", or some other such nonsense like that.

Might as well build them where you're going to sell them. Also, they're still a business and they still need to make money! It would be nice if they could figure out how to manufacture batteries over there, but I haven't heard anything linking them (GM) to that. Suppose the batteries for the volt and their normal hybrids are made either in china or south korea?

Batteries for the production Volt are being made in Brownstown Twp., Michigan.

[Pat Germain]

Based on what I read, GM spared Buick and gave Pontiac the axe because Buick is more profitable. Pontiac sold more cars. But their overhead was higher.

And, here we go again with the "American" stuff. If you want to buy a car based on who built it and where it's built, more power to you. But there's no way I'm going to pony up $30k or more based on who built it. If I like the car, I'll buy it. For example, I'd like to buy a new Mustang. The fact it's built in Detroit means little to me here in 2010. I just like the car.

[Pat Germain]

Batteries for the production Volt are being made in Brownstown Twp., Michigan.

Where did you learn this, Bob? I ask because everything I've read says the batteries are manufactured in South Korea.

[Bob Turkovich]

Where did you learn this, Bob? I ask because everything I've read says the batteries are manufactured in South Korea.

Starting up in S. Korea. Plant being built in Brownstown Twp. once they go into high volume.

I may be retired but I still have many sources in the Auto industry ;)

Link:
http://media.gm.com/content/product/public/us/en/volt/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/July/0714_volt_battery

[Pat Germain]

Starting up in S. Korea. Plant being built in Brownstown Twp. once they go into high volume.

Thanks. Of course, that's assuming the Volt will eventually be produced in high volume. Based on the initial reaction thus far, I'm not so sure that will happen. Unfortunately, the Japanese competitors like the Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius seem to be far superior and well as less expensive. Of course, the Japanese cars don't qualify for the government incentives.

Back to the Buick, I think it looks like a Buick because is resembles other modern GM cars with a few changes here and there. Lately, that's what Buicks have been. I have read that Buicks have been getting very good reliability ratings and positive reviews from experts. That's encouraging.

[Bob Turkovich]

Thanks. Of course, that's assuming the Volt will eventually be produced in high volume. Based on the initial reaction thus far, I'm not so sure that will happen. Unfortunately, the Japanese competitors like the Nissan Leaf and Toyota Prius seem to be far superior and well as less expensive. Of course, the Japanese cars don't qualify for the government incentives.



Pat,

Let me clarify my earlier statement. There are typically a couple thousand pre-production vehicles built at the assembly plant before they start building vehicles for shipment to the dealers. While these vehicles are "certified" (i.e., meet compliance standards), it is rare that they ever get in the public's hands. These vehicles apparently have a mix of SK/US batteries. When GM starts building vehicles for the general public in the 4th quarter, the batteries will be from the Brownstown plant.

I could debate your comments re: the Japanese competition and government incentives but I respectfully decline as I do not believe it was the OP's intent to go down that path.











'

[Jim Becker]

On CNN yesterday they said China is buying up the Regal like crazy.

Buick is "the" status brand in China and has been for some time. And the number of Buicks on the road there is impressive...when I was in Shanghai and Beijing two years ago, it was largely Volkswagen and Buick and both are manufactured there.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned German influence...this model, if I'm not mistaken, was designed/engineered/whatever-ed there.

[Tom Godley]

Yes -- very strange --- lots of Buicks in China. The new cars from GM are looking very nice. I hope they do well.

[Pat Germain]

Sounds like GM building a Buick plant in China was a very smart move. I'm glad to hear that and I also wish them well.