legal ramifications of posting about unsafe practices

[Ben Hatcher]

The "Do you unplug your tools before servicing?" thread got me thinking. This is a public forum. Anyone, including your insurance company, opposing council, etc. can search it. Are any of you concerned that by admitting to bad/unsafe practices you're setting yourself up for denial of benefits or other legal problems should you have an accident?

Let’s say that someone posts that they rarely/never unplug their table saw when changing blades. A few days later, they have an accident while changing their table saw blade and lose a thumb. Is that really an accident, or is it a predictable result of reckless behavior? I would think that your disability insurance carrier’s attorneys would argue the latter.

I don't want to stifle the free sharing that makes this site awesome, but I do wonder what the negative effects of such things might be. After all, everything posted here is public and permanent.

[Chris Harry]

I agree that it *could* be used against you, but as they say "past performance is no prediction of future". Just because someone may have posted yesterday they dont unplug their table saw to change blades doesnt mean they didnt start doing it immediately after posting.

It also doesnt mean what they posted was actually the truth. I still think an ins. co/lawyer would have to prove that the table saw wasnt unplugged when someone got hurt changing a blade. Or at least I like to hope they need to prove it.

[Lee Schierer]

I suppose it would depend upon how you answered the poll. In my case, I answered that I unplug my tools, so I don't have anything to worry about.:D

[Chris Padilla]

Oh, it is public* but not necessarily permanent!!

(said the Moderator...who just slightly adjusted your post, Ben)

:D

*--There are non-public forums on the Creek for Contributors.

[Jim King]

It is always good to be sensable but I really do see things blown out of proportion in the States. If someone chooses to cut his finger off it should be his own choice.

Send all of your insurance inspectors and OSHA here for a week and they will all have heart attacks and die when they see how things are done and you won´t have to worry about them.

Without any rules to go by we probably have less three fingered people and accidents than in the States per capita of woodworkers or any other industry with the exception of traffic control, the situation here makes Italy look like a model of good driving.

You all need to make some dust and noise and get productive and internationally competitive and forget some of those rules. I have many times said that the people in the US have been told for so long they are free they actually believe it.

Not by any means ment to be offensive but just my opinion. The fastest growing countries in the world operate as the States did decades ago. No recession here.

Just get back to making America the greatest and forget all the bickering and sueing. You all are loosing ground fast.

[Dan Hintz]

First, the insurance company would have to know about the post... highly unlikely. Second, they would have to prove the post was actually made by you... unless they plan to subpoena records from the forum owner, again, highly unlikely. Third, they'd have to prove that what you wrote was reality when the accident happened. Fourth, none of that matters...

[David Weaver]

...and, they'd have to prove that your policy language excluded coverage when you didn't follow osha-esque practices. I don't think that's probably the case for most health policies.

[Charlie Reals]

It is always good to be sensable but I really do see things blown out of proportion in the States. If someone chooses to cut his finger off it should be his own choice.

Send all of your insurance inspectors and OSHA here for a week and they will all have heart attacks and die when they see how things are done and you won´t have to worry about them.

Without any rules to go by we probably have less three fingered people and accidents than in the States per capita of woodworkers or any other industry with the exception of traffic control, the situation here makes Italy look like a model of good driving.

You all need to make some dust and noise and get productive and internationally competitive and forget some of those rules. I have many times said that the people in the US have been told for so long they are free they actually believe it.

Not by any means ment to be offensive but just my opinion. The fastest growing countries in the world operate as the States did decades ago. No recession here.
Amen to this before it is locked down lol. Osha has stifled productivity.

[Ben Hatcher]

Dan, I'm not losing sleep over it and I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist, but I do wonder about some of the things people post online. I've seen people nearly lose jobs and absolutely lose marraiges over facebook posts. That poll made me wonder if any of us are setting ourselves up to lose anything by posting potentially damaging "evidence" here.

[Karl Card]

It is always good to be sensable but I really do see things blown out of proportion in the States. If someone chooses to cut his finger off it should be his own choice.

Send all of your insurance inspectors and OSHA here for a week and they will all have heart attacks and die when they see how things are done and you won´t have to worry about them.

Without any rules to go by we probably have less three fingered people and accidents than in the States per capita of woodworkers or any other industry with the exception of traffic control, the situation here makes Italy look like a model of good driving.

You all need to make some dust and noise and get productive and internationally competitive and forget some of those rules. I have many times said that the people in the US have been told for so long they are free they actually believe it.

Not by any means ment to be offensive but just my opinion. The fastest growing countries in the world operate as the States did decades ago. No recession here.


Amen brother.....

[Russell Johnson]

I suppose it could be used but I'm no lawyer. However I think it would be a good reason to avoid that behavior. Just my opinion.

[Keith Outten]

Amen to this before it is locked down lol.

We are making an effort to reduce the number of threads that are removed from public view in favor of deleting individual posts that violate our Terms of service. When people show so little respect for the Original Poster buy disrupting their thread or steering the topic in an unsuitable direction their posts will be deleted rather than edited. When a thread gets out of control or the original post violates our TOS it will be removed.

For the record I agree with Jim King :)
.

[Jim King]

This is just my opinion but I feel quite sure of my statements. As a retired and tired lumberman who is tired of fighting with the ecologists from the US and Europe who dont know what they are talking about I have changed directions.

I am now working with the US Export Bank to promote US exports to Peru and hope the best for my country up there to get it together again.

[Damon Stathatos]

...then quite a few of the existing personal injury and or worker's comp attorneys out there would be unemployed. (My apologies in advance to any PI attorneys reading this thread but there are some/a few/many? who take on those who are inept).

Back to the point however, I assume that you are wondering if your medical insurance coverage or possibly home owner's insurance (for medical) could be questioned regarding your own negligence and I am sure that the answer to that question is no. I'm certain that you could even admit to a total lack of regard for safety and still be covered.

It possibly may be a factor if someone else was suing you for negligence while they were in your shop. It may go towards their case that you do not follow 'reasonable care' and they were harmed by your lack thereof.

There was a thread recently about someone who had lent a 'skill' saw out and his buddy cut himself by cutting the board while the board was in his lap. The lender was worried that his buddy's wife may get ideas to sue. If the lender had previously posted that he had cut himself with his skill saw in the same fashion, I would imagine that his buddy's wife or buddy's attorney would be real interested in that post.

[Rob Wachala Jr]

I almost did not join the forums because of the fact they force real names. I only had 1 link in google in reference to my name before I started posting here. As for the person that says posts may not be permanent. That may be true but there is more than one site that you can look up 'outdated' site data.

[Carlos Alden]

Right. I have never posted anything that I would not consider public. Not since I've been intertubing starting in 1995 or something. It's just good practice, period.

Having said that, though, I think it is pretty far-fetched that one could be held truly legally responsible by their insurance company for having stated they flount safety rules. Sounds vaguely conspir-ish. But here's an idea - why don't you practice safety in the first place? Then when you write about it it might even bolster your case in an insurance issue.

On the OTHER hand, a popular and wild sailing forum I drop in on is being sued to the gills by a rather wealthy gentleman. He is claiming they have slandered him. Now I don't know if the gossip and backbiting and general nonsense that goes on in this particular forum can stand legally for slander and libel, but the guy is rich enough to drag them, and the two owners, to court and tie them and their money up for a long time, regardless of who is legally correct. It will be interesting in a legal internet way to watch what happens.

I think the conspiracy theories are coming from the camp of "the reason America is down the tubes is because...." and fill in the blank at whatever your pet peeve is.

Carlos
(real name, of course)

[Jason Roehl]

Ummmm...what rules?

Where is it a rule that I must unplug my table saw before changing the blade? And, if it IS a rule, what is the penalty for breaking it (but not injuring oneself in the process)?

Let's be clear, though--I'm NOT talking about a place of employment. In your home work shop, the only rules are the ones you set yourself, and the only penalties are the ones you set and apply yourself. What is contained in the owner's manuals are merely suggestions that are entirely unenforceable. Personally, I take them under advisement, but freely "violate" them when it suits my situation, and I am confident I am still safe ENOUGH. I'm far more concerned with others' poor driving habits than I am with cutting to a line on a table saw with no fence (done it many times). Heck, we used to let American Indians walk high rise steel frames with no tethers or fall arrestors in this country. A very high percentage of them survived just fine. ;)

[Dennis Peacock]

And I agree with Keith Outten who agreed with Jim King. :D

[Carlos Alden]

Ummmm...what rules?

Where is it a rule that I must unplug my table saw before changing the blade? And, if it IS a rule, what is the penalty for breaking it (but not injuring oneself in the process)?

Umm, if you are referring to my post about following safety rules, I wasn't talking about written or workplace rules per se. I was more thinking of good rules of thumb, like unplugging a power tool before tinkering with the blade is a pretty good idea, just as wearing hearing protection or eye protection or seatbelts or helmets are pretty good ideas that have to do with the user safety.

Sorry if it sounded like I was discussing some rulebook or a written list. However, in the context of this thread about what insurance companies might look for, they unfortunately rely on things like that for coverage.

Carlos