Need guidance on next tool purchase

[Matt Logana]

How often is it that someone asks you how to spend their money... well I'm askin'!

Being a new woodworker, I have a very limited arsenal of what I can make my projects with. I have in my arsenal:

-Corded Drill
-Cordless Drill
-Corded JigSaw
-Angle Grinder(not really for wood, but it works for cutting through nails)
-14" Bandsaw
-And a bunch of hand tools (Hammers, Wrenches, handsaw, et cetera)

But thats about it.

So my question is: What should be my next purchase. I have some available funds to spend on my shop and on my tools/projects (A total of a grand, but would perfer to keep it close to zero as possible. Since this is my slush fund until I can get a part time job in the winter(Turning 16 so I should be able to get a position somewhere)

I am eventually going to do a router table, but thats not something Ill buy outright, but rather build what I can (Buy a lift if needed, obviously a router, et cetera.)

But I wasnt sure: Should I be looking at a Table Saw? A Jointer? Planer? A Radial Arm Saw (Or Radical Harm Saw if your a wise guy.) ?

I have noticed a fair amount of RAS on Craigslist for in the $60 range. Should I persue one of these?

One thing though, I dont have a helluva lot of room. A Single Car garage.

Any guidance?

I plan to drop about $250 on the shop after a pending issue is settled, so consider that eatten up out of the POSSIBLE 1k... I cant start that now, because if they decide to sell, Id rather that money not go out the window... That would include heating and finishing(drywall, studs, etc.)


Thanks.
Sincerely,
Matt


(Ps: Please dont hold your comments over the age: I know very well safe operating procedures of most tools having seen them in use by family members/friends at one point or another. I just wanted to ensure that I would find a thread full of "Careful Sonny" remarks. :) )

[Victor Robinson]

Most might say tablesaw, but I think you can already do a lot of what a tablesaw can do with your bandsaw and jigsaw. Granted, the tablesaw can do those things much more cleanly and efficiently. At a certain point you'll definitely get a tablesaw - the question is, can you get by without one for now and devote your funds to other tools?

It seems to me that a router and a table would add the most capability - your current setup doesn't allow you to profile edges, dado, slot, flush trim, etc. It's a darn versatile tool.

If you bide your time and scour for deals, you can easily end up with a nice used cabinet saw AND router (plus a table you build) all for well under a grand. Well under.

Honestly only you can answer this question best. What are you missing being able to do? What "ability" would have made your last project go more smoothly or would have allowed you to take it to the next level?

[Matt Logana]

Most might say tablesaw, but I think you can already do a lot of what a tablesaw can do with your bandsaw and jigsaw. Granted, the tablesaw can do those things much more cleanly and efficiently. At a certain point you'll definitely get a tablesaw - the question is, can you get by without one for now and devote your funds to other tools?

It seems to me that a router and a table would add the most capability - your current setup doesn't allow you to profile edges, dado, slot, flush trim, etc. It's a darn versatile tool.

If you bide your time and scour for deals, you can easily end up with a nice used cabinet saw AND router (plus a table you build) all for well under a grand. Well under.

Honestly only you can answer this question best. What are you missing being able to do? What "ability" would have made your last project go more smoothly or would have allowed you to take it to the next level?


I started looking at youtube vids of what an RAS can do, such as panel raising, drilling/boring, et cetera... would this be a good buy for about $60? How about an old 6 1/8 CMan Jointer.. needing a good sanding and a porkchop guard for about $50(I think I could talk down to about $30 due to the condition.)?

I am beginning to think I may not have the room for a TS... since they require room on all sides; whereas something like a RAS requires room merely on 3 sides(two sides+operator..)

Thanks

[Cary Falk]

I started looking at youtube vids of what an RAS can do, such as panel raising, drilling/boring, et cetera... would this be a good buy for about $60? How about an old 6 1/8 CMan Jointer.. needing a good sanding and a porkchop guard for about $50(I think I could talk down to about $30 due to the condition.)?

I am beginning to think I may not have the room for a TS... since they require room on all sides; whereas something like a RAS requires room merely on 3 sides(two sides+operator..)

Thanks

If the RAS is a Craftsman more than likely you will not want it. Most of the Craftsman RAS don't hold their alignment. I don't have a RAS and don't ever have a desire to have one. My opinion is the only thing they are good for is crosscutting and every other function they advertise is an accident waiting to happen. They take up a lot of space. I think the jointer would be a good choice given the price. A router is also a good investment. I still think a table saw is a wise choice. I use mine on every project. That being said, I started out with a drill, skill saw, and router and did many projects with that.

[scott spencer]

The TS is the #1 tool in my shop, but a good TS is on the large side, and at 16 may or may not be your best bet.

A router on the other hand is extremely versatile, not overly expensive, and takes up very little space. Two routers is even better...one for hand use, one for table use, each with different strengths.

[Philip Johnson]

I also have never had much good luck with a RAS...was only good for cutting rough boards in half, I would not waste money on one.

I think the number one tool is a table saw or possibly a track saw but you will probably find a table saw for less money. You can always mount it on some wheels and move it around the garage for storage. A router would also be a good choice.

I am not sure how useful a jointer is with out a planner, to me they kind of go together, one is not much good without then other.

At 16 your high school shop is a great place to use some good quality tools and figure out what you need.

Phil

[Will Overton]

My first big shop tool was a Craftsman ras. I picked it because I felt it was more versatile than a tablesaw. I used it for about 20 years (although I did add a table saw) and when I moved in '05, I gave it to a friend. He still uses it at least a few times a week. I moved into my house in October and my new ras arrived in November. IMHO - the fear of the ras was started by folks who never learned to use them properly, and spread by folks who never used them. You need to RESPECT, not fear, every power tool.

One thing that gets folks in trouble on the ras is ripping. Unlike a table saw, depending on how you rotate the head (in-rip/out-rip) you need to be sure to feed the wood from the proper side.

I like the fact that with the ras you can see the cut, even on non through cut like dadoes. My ras also doubled as a disk and drum (spindle) sander, with accessories.

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As for the table saw, you might not need as much room as you think. If the tablesaw is mobile, being able to turn it 90° means your outfeed area for ripping can accommodated the longer boards you are cross-cutting.

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While a bandsaw can be used for ripping and resawing, cross-cutting anything but the shortest stock ain't happening. Plus, in my experience, after ripping on a bandsaw the edges need to be jointed, particularly if they are to be used to glue up wider panels. That would require another tool, a jointer ... either powered or a hand plane. A proper blade in a table saw or ras can give you ready to glue edges.

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As I built my tool collection (over many years) my preferences became;

Table saw for ripping
Ras for cross cuts and dadoes
Bandsaw for resawing and curved cuts ... and for cutting small pieces like pen blanks
SCMS for miters and cross cuts ... particularly in nice weather 'cause it's easy to roll outside ;)

[David Nelson1]

and keep looking. IMO the order would be T/S, jointer, and planer. You didn't mention how large or complicated your projects are so it's hard to make a judgement on a router/table. they are very hand y tools to have.

Now let go to the dark side. Even if you did get a good jointer and planer, you will STILL need some type of hand planes

I guess its a choice in what you need to accomplish in the near future, and what you have planned as long term.

I spent about 9 months cutting bait, with addition of insulation, drywall, and a large wood rack minus the last coat of mud and paint. I'm just about ready to go fishing.

Good luck ole. Please post what your thinking about getting and I'm sure you'll get some good feedback.

[Prashun Patel]

If it were me, I'd get 3 things:

1) fixed base/plunge base router combo. I got along fine this way for a few years. It allows you to use 1 motor conveniently in a router table and also for hand use. : $100-$200.

2) circular saw with a good blade: $100

3) Some kind of track or guide system that can be used on yr router and saw. < $100.

This will let you do a LOT of stuff. A circ saw will come in handy for years even if you decide ww-ing is not for you.

After you hone yr skills on these, you can contemplate whether you need a tablesaw or bandsaw next.

[Kent A Bathurst]

If it were me, I'd get 3 things:

1) fixed base/plunge base router combo. I got along fine this way for a few years. It allows you to use 1 motor conveniently in a router table and also for hand use. : $100-$200.

2) circular saw with a good blade: $100

3) Some kind of track or guide system that can be used on yr router and saw. < $100.

This will let you do a LOT of stuff. A circ saw will come in handy for years even if you decide ww-ing is not for you.

After you hone yr skills on these, you can contemplate whether you need a tablesaw or bandsaw next.


Agree w/ Prashun - up to a point. With the router and a table w/ split fence [home built, of course] you can joint board edges. Circ saw is a very good suggestion that I would not have thought of - I directed a friend toward a PC SawBoss, and I love it - but you'd need to score on a used one to keep $$ down.

Make your own track[s] for circ + router. My preference is 1/4" - 3/8" ply, and 3/8" x 1-1/2" alum bar stock for a good, stiff, straight guide rail [Grainger sells it pretty reasonable]. But, most folks use 1/4" hardboard with 1/2" ply for a rail. Whatever.

Flattening boards, though - that takes a bit more. In power tools, that'd be a lunchbox planer and a sled, I'd think. Then there is the waste-stream management issue, so the cash starts coming into play.

My personal eccentricity: I simply do not like RAS. Don't have one. Never did. Takes up a lot of room. There is virtually nothing they can do that I can't do just as well a different way, and for those rare instances where it would be the "preferred" tool, the volume/freq of those tasks don't warrant one for me. Never felt safe to me. There are good ones, and there are cheap ones, but there are no good, cheap ones IMO. Not picking a fight here, just my personal preference.

Of course, if my shop space doubled, and I stumbled across some extra $$ thousands, I wouldnt' mind having one from Original Saw Co. ;) One of them BIG honkers that are 100 HP with a 40" blade that look like they came from a sawmill - NOW yer' talkin'.

[Tom Cornish]

I am approaching the finer woodworking side of things from the home improvement direction. I have remodeled a couple of houses and done a lot of general work. It continues to amaze me how little there is in common between the rougher carpentry skills (including trim work and the stair bannister I did on the last project), and cabinetry. Right now I'm building custom laundry room cabinets and I'm amazed at the tools I have had to buy considering how many tools I already had.

What I'm saying here is you need to think about what you are going to build, because that makes all the difference. If you're going to build a house, you need large hulking tools like 18 volt or bigger cordless drills, framing nailiers, air compressor, miter saw, saw horses, skillsaw, etc. If you're going to be building ships in bottles you'll need string, glue, paint, and exacto knives.

The tools that have proved most valuable to me (remember most of my projects to date have been home-style rather than furniture making) are:
1. Cordless drill
2. Table saw
3. Sawzall
4. Impact driver
5. Sliding miter saw
6. Belt sander
7. Finish nailers/air compressor
8. Router in router table


Now that I've finished most of my current house and am starting on cabinets and hopefully some furniture, I've had to add to my aresnal the following:
- Dust collection - I hated choking on the tablesaw dust thrown in my face.
- Better table saw (had a Bosch 4000 which would be what I would look for in your situation - great portable saw - I went to a big SawStop)
- Pocket hole jig
- A bunch of clamps
- Tracksaw
- More router bits - rail/style, 3/16" roundover

I'm having to excersize self-control to not buy a Domino, Rotex, and another vac right now.


I know that some people like Radial arm saws, but I can't stand them and have turned down 2 free ones in the last few years. About the only thing that a RAS can do better than my tablesaw/SCMS setup is cross-cut dadoing of skinny wood. Everything else the other tools are much safer, much more flexible, and much more accurate. I believe this is true of virtually all RAS, but especially true for the ubiquitous Craftsmans.

There's an old saying: "The wrong tool at the right price is still the wrong tool."

What I would do in your situation is to decide what your first project is, and buy the tools needed to complete that with as much forward thinking as possible - buy quality things that can be used in the future rather than cheap tools. Reading here on the forum will help you understand what tools are worth buying used, and lots of creative ways to use them effectively. I would avoid spending all of your money at once, because that will pretty much guarantee you won't have everything you need to finish your project. It's true that we all have a lot of money in "line-item" tools, but it's easy to underestimate the cost of the little stuff - clamps, jigs, router bits, hand tools, jointery, etc.

[Myk Rian]

Since I restored my RAS, the table saw sits almost unused, except for rip cuts. Nothing makes better cross cuts.
But you don't NEED a RAS or miter saw. My TS sits by the garage door with 3 sides open. It doesn't have to be open all the way around. If it's on wheels, all the better.

If you plan on using rough cut lumber, a jointer and thickness planer are in your future.

[Cliff Holmes]

You need to RESPECT, not fear, every power tool

I really don't like this saying. When you respect something, that means it has admirable qualities you'd like to emulate or at least you have positive feelings for it.

You should absolutely fear your power tools. For that matter, I fear my razor-sharp chisels. Fearing something doesn't mean you run away from it, it means you recognize that it can do major damage to you and you need to be cautious.

[John Lanciani]

I really don't like this saying. When you respect something, that means it has admirable qualities you'd like to emulate or at least you have positive feelings for it.

You should absolutely fear your power tools. For that matter, I fear my razor-sharp chisels. Fearing something doesn't mean you run away from it, it means you recognize that it can do major damage to you and you need to be cautious.

I agree with Will, respect of the tools ability is good, fear is bad. Fear will get you hurt in a hurry.

In regards to Matt's request; if my hunch is correct, he's asked this question before under a different name but the answer is still the same. The best place for Matt to spend money is classes. Advising a 15 year old to buy a table saw, radial arm saw, or router when he has no experience with any of them nor a mentor to keep him safe is just plain irresponsible in my opinion.

[Will Overton]

Cliff,

I feel bad for you, living every day of your life in fear. Your tools are probably not out to get you. Seek help before it's too late. :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mat, the comment about attending wood shop classes in your local school is an excellent suggestion.

I became interested in wood working through that experience, and spent many years making wood objects using only hand tools.

After college I lived in an apartment for a while and was able to use the second bedroom as a workshop, since hand tools are quiet, and don't generate fine dust, just sawdust and shavings.

I have a few friends who have only been interested in turning, and one lives in an appartment.

Since the lathe is quiet, he has no problems with his hobby.

Untill you develop a feel for what you would like to do, it's tough to make machinery choices, hand tools however remain the same regardless of what you make.

Hand tools don't take up much room, and used planes, and chisels can be had for very little money. Some cleaning and sharpening and you're on your way.

Regards, Rod.

[John M Wilson]

Hi Matt,

This is an excellent question, and has been asked a couple times recently. I would do a search on the forums for questions by Brendan Plavis, and Brendan Davis. They had similar circumstances, and I think the responses they received would be helpful in your case.

Good Luck!

[Nathan Callender]

if I were in your shoes I would get some panes and chisels and myfirst project would be a real woodworking bench. Then I would get a 2hp router with two bases and build a good but inexpensive table for it. I might add a cuff saw and edge guide too. With a few more hand tools you would be able to build almost anything.

I'm suggesting this route since you already have a bandsaw. That will let you rough dimension your lumber and the workbench and hand tools will let you clean up the faces and cut joinery. The router will let you profile easily and the doc saw will let you work with sheet goods.

[Matt Logana]

...In regards to Matt's request; if my hunch is correct, he's asked this question before under a different name but the answer is still the same. The best place for Matt to spend money is classes. Advising a 15 year old to buy a table saw, radial arm saw, or router when he has no experience with any of them nor a mentor to keep him safe is just plain irresponsible in my opinion.

I am sorry If I mis-typed, but didnt I ask that age be left out of the equation? I have had experience with most tools at one time or another, and am firmiliar with safe operation; I also have a couple of aquaintances that are part time woodworkers(second job) as well as shop teachers and construction workers.

Second, I believe that you may have me confused with someone else.