3 planes that I wish were being made

[Chris Griggs]

Just some random thoughts on some tools I would like Lee Valley, Lie-Nielsen, or another premium manufacturer to make. Of course, given my lack of experience/expertise, these idea's may be very well be completely ridiculous. That said, maybe these are planes you "need" but just didn't realize it.

1. A metal bodied fore plane: Think about it. Wouldn't a modern scrub plane, thats the size of an old school fore plane (14-18 inches) be great? Something that could settle the scrub plane vs fore plane, wood fore plane vs metal fore plane debate. Because scrub planes are simpler in design than a bedrock my guess is one could be made that is close size of a number 6 but a good deal lighter. With a heavily cambered 1 3/4" to 2" inch blade and some modern adjustment mechanisms you have yourself one heck of fore plane.

2. A bevel-up/low angle jointer that's the size of a number 8: I can't believe no one has put this out yet. Imagine a bevel up plane that's 24" (or dare I say 26") long. Once again, bevel up planes are a fair amount lighter than Bedrocks so this would be a great option for those who want a really long metal jointer, but don't want the weight of a No 8. Set the mouth back extra far (like in the LV BU jointer), and you'd have a serious jointer plane.

3. A modern moving filister with a straight blade: I know, I know, skew blades are awesome, but it would be nice to have the option of the LV rabbet plane with a square blade. Also, I realize ECE makes a good moving filister, but the adjustments on the LV seem so nice. Alternatively, LN could remake the No. 78. Actually, I'm kinda surprised they haven't already.


Hmmmmmm, maybe I'll just need to start my own tool company. Looks like I better start reading up on metallurgy.:)

[jamie shard]

1. A metal bodied fore plane: Think about it. Wouldn't a modern scrub plane, thats the size of an old school fore plane (14-18 inches) be great? Something that could settle the scrub plane vs fore plane, wood fore plane vs metal fore plane debate. Because scrub planes are simpler in design than a bedrock my guess is one could be made that is close size of a number 6 but a good deal lighter. With a heavily cambered 1 3/4" to 2" inch blade and some modern adjustment mechanisms you have yourself one heck of fore plane.



For what it's worth, an old #6 with a blade shaped with a heavy camber works great for this. I actually just use the standard blade and I really have no complains. That said, one of these days I'll put in a thick aftermarket plane blade.

[Chris Griggs]

For what it's worth, an old #6 with a blade shaped with a heavy camber works great for this. I actually just use the standard blade and I really have no complains. That said, one of these days I'll put in a with a thick aftermarket plane blade.

Very true. I've used a number 6 for roughing as well . None of the planes I mentioned are true needs, but just some things that I've been thinking about for a while.

[jamie shard]

Very true. I've used a number 6 for roughing as well . None of the planes I mentioned are true needs, but just some things that I've been thinking about for a while.

I only mention that one in particular because I use it a lot. It removes a fair amount of wood, but keeps the surface fairly uniform, much more so than a #40 scrub which is better for more coarse work.

[James Taglienti]

There are a lot of metal bodied fore planes, arent there?

i really want to see a nice stop chamfer plane with a beading attachment - that would make me very happy

[David Weaver]

It'd be hard to make a metal plane much lighter than a bailey 6.

it's nice to have wooden fore planes for softer wood and metal fore planes for harder wood - especially if the metal fore plane is heavy. Panel planes are much nicer for work on hardwoods (not cherry, walnut, etc, but woods that are really hard) than wood planes.

I think the BU planes as a 7 were carefully thought out by LV - and a look at what LN sells the most of and how many stanley 7s there are vs 8s is probably a good indicator why. Plus, the BUS through the LAJ all have the same irons, which wouldn't be the case with a larger plane. It's a market size issue. I'd bet that if you let people joint a longer board with a 7 and then an 8 at a demo, most would choose the 7 as soon as they started to get a little tired. I have both in BD format, but at this point, i can't really tell you why I still have the #8, other than maybe laziness and resistance to selling of my nice planes.

3 is a good question. Probably an issue of differentiation vs. what's readily available on the used market. 78s, 778s and sargent vbm rebate planes are out there in large numbers and relatively cheap. It might be hard to sell what's essentially a roughing tool against them. If LN released an improved version with stanley looks tomorrow, though, I'll bet they'd still have enough fans buying them to make their money back. It'd sure be less of a nuisance to grind and hone the iron for a plane that really was doing mostly roughing.

[Chris Griggs]

3 is a good question. Probably an issue of differentiation vs. what's readily available on the used market. 78s, 778s and sargent vbm rebate planes are out there in large numbers and relatively cheap. It might be hard to sell what's essentially a roughing tool against them. If LN released an improved version with stanley looks tomorrow, though, I'll bet they'd still have enough fans buying them to make their money back. It'd sure be less of a nuisance to grind and hone the iron for a plane that really was doing mostly roughing.

Yes, the 3rd one was actually the one I would be most likely to buy if it were offered and probably the one that would most realistically to be offered some day.

The first two occurred to me after I read several blogs and articles discussing some of the benefits of wood planes. Specifically Bob R (at the Logan Cabinet Shoppe's) opinions on the value of a long wooden fore plane and a VERY long wooden jointer. I got to thinking that it might be cool if someone attempted to make a metal plane with some of the advantages of the old woodies. I agree the first two I mentioned may not be realistic, marketable or necessary (I trust that Rob Lee and TLN are far more enlightened about this than I), but I was/am curious about what more experienced people thought. As always David, your knowledge and input is much appreciated.

[Rob Lee]

Hi Chris -

I'd add the following to the comments already in this thread:

With respect to the #8 ... applying Stanley's numbering systems to other planes of different design is a bit innacurate. If I were to "number" our Bevel-up Jointer, I'd have to call it a 7 1/2, or 7 3/4 (referring to length only), as the mouth position is different from Stanley models... it has an effectively longer cut length.

For your wish #3, we do have a small plow plane now.... the use of "small" should telegraph something... ;)

Cheers -

Rob

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Chris -

I'd add the following to the comments already in this thread:

With respect to the #8 ... applying Stanley's numbering systems to other planes of different design is a bit innacurate. If I were to "number" our Bevel-up Jointer, I'd have to call it a 7 1/2, or 7 3/4 (referring to length only), as the mouth position is different from Stanley models... it has an effectively longer cut length.

For your wish #3, we do have a small plow plane now.... the use of "small" should telegraph something... ;)

Cheers -

Rob

Well in that case please make me an No. 8 3/4 ;). No, I'm kidding.

In all seriousness, I've been holding off on buying the small plow, because I've heard these rumors of a large plow coming out in the future. Is that still a ways off, or might we see it within the next 6-12 months?

And thanks for posting Rob. I was hoping you'd chime in with your opinion on my imaginary planes. It's always great to know your out there listening to your customers/fellow woodworkers.

[Rick Markham]

I'd like to see a compass plane made someday. I honestly don't know how useful anyone else would find it but I have some uses for one ;)

James, I would also like to see a stop chamfer plane, with a beading attachment. I know Bridge city makes the HP 6 v2 but I'm not sure it qualifies as a stop chamfer plane. It's also beyond my "affordability" range :D.

All in all I think LV and LN are doing a good job, every once in awhile I think of something that would be nice if one of them made, but it seems short lived as I can't think of anything other than the compass plane right now LOL

[Rob Lee]

(snip)

I've heard these rumors of a large plow coming out in the future. Is that still a ways off, or might we see it within the next 6-12 months?

(snip)

Hi Chris -

It's in active development now...which puts it at least 10 months out. It will be more than a plow though...we intend for it to do molding as well...

Cheers -

Rob

[Rob Lee]

(snip)

I honestly don't know how useful anyone else would find it but I have some uses for one ;)

(snip)



Hi Rick -

I'll put you on the spot.... I just bought a NIB Record 020C .... want it???

Hit me by email for the price if you do .... rlee@leevalley.com .

Cheers -

Rob

[David Weaver]

I have to imagine that producing a new compass plane wouldn't be too cost effective.

The old ones, especially the 020s work every well and are well made. They all work well, just like the 020 better than the 113.

Would have to guess if Kunz wants $299 for their plane that it is a major pain in the rear to make one.

[Rob Lee]

Would have to guess if Kunz wants $299 for their plane that it is a major pain in the rear to make one.

Yup - it'd be a pain.

Our last retail price on the Record (Irwin) 020C was $249 in 2001 ....

I told Tom he should make one....;):D

Cheers -

Rob

[Chris Griggs]

Hi Chris -

It's in active development now...which puts it at least 10 months out. It will be more than a plow though...we intend for it to do molding as well...

Cheers -

Rob


Rob, you crafty, crafty man, that sounds INCREDIBLY cool. Why must you tempt us with such things?

I don't think I'd need both the small and the large plow plane so I guess I'll be using my LV router plane as a plow plane until the large plow plane comes out.

Thanks for the update Rob!

[Rick Markham]

Rob, Email sent!

The large plow plane sounds like something I will be saving my pennies for.

Yeah, and that is kind of what I figured about producing a new compass plane, too big of a PITA and not enough demand to justify it. The things usually don't go for cheap on fleabay... collectors... Psh... :D (sorry couldn't resist)

[Dave Anderson NH]

Rick, Compass planes are readily available from Crown Planes and they work very well for hollowing. If you meant a plane like the old Stanley adjustable sole planes though, the only one currently made is a Kunz and I have never seen a Kunz tool of any sort that didn't require a huge amount of work to make it usable.

[Sean Hughto]

I got mine from an antique dealer at a show, for around $75 IIRC. It's been very nice to have.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/2826283523_af37a3aa77_z.jpg?zz=1

[Dewald van Lamp]

I can wait 10 months easy..!

ROFL!

:)

[Rick Markham]

Sean, Those stanley 113 sure are pretty planes! I have to say there is a tremendous amount of beauty in that tool. Maybe one day I will come across a reasonably priced one. But I have a gorgeous Record Compass plane coming thanks to Rob Lee... it's in amazing condition by the way... can't wait to use her :cool: