Confused

[harry strasil]

As to why a post about a Neander Demo was moved to the Off Topic forum. I guess my Neander Posts are not wanted, so be it.

Enjoyed it while it lasted.

[john davey]

Harry, I for one really enjoy your posts. Don't know anything about the forum world but I do hope you continue to share your wealth of knowledge it is truly appreciated. John...

[Rick Markham]

Absolutely Harry, I have learned so much from you sharing here, and that would be a real shame if you stopped posting! :(

[Joel Goodman]

Please keep posting!!!!

[James Baker SD]

add another voice for the interesting nature of Harry's posts.

James

[Jim Koepke]

I have no idea how someone could have found a 19th century workshop not suitable for Neanderthal Haven.

I am a moderator on another forum and one of the rules of courtesy is to for a moderator to at lest inform a member why such an action was taken on a posting.

I do not know if that is one of the rules for moderators here, but maybe it should be.

Especially with a post that is not using strong innuendo or objectionable language, it would seem better to mention in the thread that it was a moderator's opinion that it should be in a different conference.

In this case, I do not see why it should be in a different conference.

jim

[Dave Anderson NH]

I didn't move it Junior, but the policy is that event announcements ( as opposed to discussions) don't belong on any of the topically oriented forums. The reasoning is that after the event is over the thread becomes stale.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Have any of the 8,694 other threads on this topically-oriented forum gone stale?

[Jim Koepke]

I didn't move it Junior, but the policy is that event announcements ( as opposed to discussions) don't belong on any of the topically oriented forums. The reasoning is that after the event is over the thread becomes stale.

Dave,

Thanks for the explanation. I am not sure this policy has been fully enforced in the past.

It is also one of those rules that many may have known but forgotten.

Others and I have posted events of interest to hand tool users in this forum.

Though the Off Topic forum does get my attention, there are times when it may not get visited for days. One of my bookmarks to this site is directly into Neanderthal Haven. It would not surprise me to find that others use their favorite forum as their entry point.

I sometimes have to kick myself for not regularly checking the Classifieds first. I have missed a few great deals listed there. Though, I have also found some great deals there. Snooze and loose is the old adage we all have heard.

Finally, maybe we could have a forum where contributors can talk about the policies and ideas for SMC. I know the moderators have a forum for discussion of their concerns. Not sure if that is what the Lumber Yard is all about.

jim

[ken seale]

Posters on other WW forums often mention the over moderation that goes on here. I hope this place doesn't lose too many more of the more experienced wood workers. I've noticed quite a few of them have dropped out already.

[Larry Fox]

I didn't move it Junior, but the policy is that event announcements ( as opposed to discussions) don't belong on any of the topically oriented forums. The reasoning is that after the event is over the thread becomes stale.

Same thing happened to a post of mine inquiring about other Creekers possibly attending a class I was. It got moved to the OT forum and I immediately considered it a dead thread. Is there something like a time-to-live setting that can be applied to threads?

[David Weaver]

Posters on other WW forums often mention the over moderation that goes on here. I hope this place doesn't lose too many more of the more experienced wood workers. I've noticed quite a few of them have dropped out already.

Some of them are quite overmoderated themselves, especially when moderation teams change - trust me, the moderating is more impartial on here. I always figured if I got banned from a forum, it would be this one, that hasn't been the case so far.

And there are some other good forums that just don't have much traffic, or more experienced traffic and there isn't as much need for structure and policing. At least they cut trolls short on here quickly.

Probably place to get on the mods topic sheet would be to go over to the tech support forum and post the question.

[harry strasil]

Larry Fox said.

It got moved to the OT forum and I immediately considered it a dead thread.

That was my assumption too on my recently moved post. I wanted to give those Neanders interested a chance to plan for it if they could possibly attend. Now it appears to be a wasted effort on my part.

As to Dave's post about it being a dead thread after the event is over, that is correct, it seems to me that a Moderator could wait till a week after the event is over and then remove the whole thread.

I just won't post any more information about upcoming events on SMC anymore. I don't do that many demos anymore because of my health and I just wanted those who are or might be interested in the slippery slope associated with Hand Tool WWing to have a chance to come and look and USE some of the Old Tools to determine if they want to buy a ticket to the ride down the slope.

Respectfully

Jr. Strasil

[Tony Shea]

That would be a huge loss if we were to lose any of Harry's input and knowledge on this forum. I agree 100% that any information reguarding upcoming events should be given at least a week before removing. Many times after the event is over people like to share information reguarding that specific event without having to start a new thread. The Moderation here seems to be on point in certain areas but could probably tone it down quit a bit. I think it to be important to go the extra step to provide a reason after removing such threads or posts to the individual responsible for the post. It truely would be a shame to lose members with the amount of knowledge that Harry is willing to share with others. I've learned so much from him alone.

[George Sanders]

I think a neander event listed in a neander forum is quite on target. I agree it should be time limited to a week after the event.

If I could meet anyone on any of the forums on SMC it would be Harry Strasil.

[Keith Outten]

Gentlemen,

If we allowed everyone who wanted to post a timed event in our primary forums it would cause a host of problems. Concerning allowing these posts to remain for one week our Staff could not possibly keep up with the workload required to move threads and our software doesn't have the capability built-in.

We average about 800 new posts per day seven days a week. We try to keep things as organized as possible and we are one of the very few woodworking forums that archives threads. If we are to continue to archive information for you we must have your help keeping threads in their proper forums.

Those who are interested in time sensitive events will have to go to either our calendar or the off topic forum. Creating these kinds of threads in the off topic forum makes it easier for us to delete them when the events are over and we have the time to clean up.
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[Jamie Bacon]

Sorry, but that post belonged in the Neanderthal Haven section. It is surely relevant to hand tools. I would like more info posted on events such as this where someone knowledgable like Junior is doing a demo. And I would never look for a post like that in the Off Topic section. Post involving hand tool woodworking belong in the Neanderthal Haven section, where I can find them. :)

Jamie Bacon

[harry strasil]

OK, I didn't know this post was gonna open a can of worms. Dave was kind enough to explain that what was done is standard policy. But it seems to be a hit or miss policy though as in the past, posts of this nature, WIA, and my previous posts about this Annual Demo have not been moved or even Deleted.
There is no need to get in an uproar about it, its over and done and people know its gonna happen. Its an annual thing, not on the same date, but at the same time each year, the first weekend in October as most Steam Shows and Living History interpretations are.

I appreciate all the glowing reports of my supposed knowledge, but in fact I am just another Old Man who has an interest in the old ways and tools and their application to the Trade. So lets NOT jump all over the Mods and the Admins for doing their jobs and just thank them for letting us have the chance to Associate with others who are like minded and have a place where we can ask questions and also throw in our 2¢ occasionally in an effort to help others and further the application of our chosen Hobby or Field of Endeavor.

Respectfully
Jr.

[Jim Koepke]

Ken,

Thanks for the time you took to explain this.

Would it be OK to make a post in a topical forum, like Neanderthal Haven, directing people to an event message in Off Topic?

Then would it be permissible to give those posts a bump to the top every so often?

Thanks,

jim

[Keith Outten]

Jim,

Pointing to a thread in another forum is an off topic post. Consider that over time when the original thread is deleted in the Off Topic Forum you would them have a post pointing to a thread that no longer exists.

We have a calendar that is the perfect place to announce events, it is best that people here get used to using the best tool for the job. I realize it seems to be a bit inconvenient but it is the best means of providing information without filling our woodworking forums with threads that cease to have any value after an event is over. We also allow people to post events in our Off Topic Forum so there can be discussion as necessary.

The bottom line is that a brochure may very well contain valuable information one moment and be trash the next. Years and years of people leaving their brochures behind becomes litter that damages our search capability.

Imagine that ten years from now you search the Neanderthall Forum for a particular type of plane iron and you receive 500 links of which half are to threads that are about past events where plane irons were sold or training was provided. If we are to continue to archive information here for others to enjoy we need to keep things neat and organized. The other option is to delete all threads and posts after 30 days like so many other forums do, if this is prefered then your grandson or great granddaughter will never be able to learn from your posts here.
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[Matt Radtke]

Moving such threads to Off-Topic does seem to make sense, even if it does annoy some of us.

I'm curious if there is a way we can work around this while still holding true to the spirit of the rule?

A thread that is purely time-sensitive is bad, this make sense. Would it be acceptable to have an such a thread so long as the OP puts a sufficient amount of information in the thread, say enough for it to stand on its own years after the event passes? What if videos or a summary of such a demonstration was added later?

I don't want to create more work for anyone, just looking for a way to make as many people happy as possible.

[Peter Cobb]

Maybe those people who wish to anounce demos / meets etc could do so in their signatures (will be seen in all posts made irrespective of forum and you can re-edit it once it's over) if it isn't against forum rules.
Cheers,
PDJ

[Keith Outten]

Sorry but I won't allow SawMill Creek to become full of advertising liter by allowing ads in signatures. You can't imagine what posts would like here inside of one week.

Let me remind everyone that The Creek is here to support woodworking discussions, this is our only goal. We have provided two areas for everyone to make announcements by either using our Calendar or the Off Topic Forum.

We are working diligently to clean up our woodworking forums here by removing unauthorized advertisements and sending warnings to those who refuse to comply. The rules here are for the benefit of the majority and they have worked well for close to eight years. Please don't start creating new threads that include announcements in an effort to advertise an event, you will simply create more work for our Staff and place your access privileges in jeopardy. Others will see what you are trying to accomplish and soon there will be thousands of people making announcements in every forum.

We average over 48,000 visitors here every day.
We serve over 220,000 page views every day.

These kinds of numbers make us attractive to those whose only interest is to acquire free advertising which would destroy SawMill Creek in a very short period of time. Another issue we must consider is that we cannot attract paying advertisers if we allow people to advertise for free. Even though I understand that many are only interested in providing information that is valuable to this Community we have to draw the line somewhere and it has to be very clear to everyone that our woodworking forums are not to be used for advertising. I am the only person who is exempt from this rule. I will make announcements in our Forums whenever I feel they are a benefit to the majority of this Community. For the record you have never seem me intentionally advertise my sign company here, the very company that owns SawMill Creek.

Those of you who are Contributors may post announcements in the Lumber Yard Forum and you are free to discuss any topic there that you feel is necessary except religion and politics.

One final note:
I don't allow anyone to post negative comments publicly about our Moderators. They donate their time and work a lot of hours here just to serve this Community. They deserve your respect and thanks for doing a very difficult job that many would never consider and we could not survive without them. If you have a complaint use our Private Messaging Service to bring it to their attention or mine. We surely make mistakes moderating and managing the largest woodworking forum on the Internet. For every mistake we make there are thousands of things we do for you that is right on target.
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