I could sure use some opinions

[Richard Madden]

A few days ago I showed some pictures of a spiral finial made of walnut. This one is ebony and threaded. I would greatly appreciate opinions on some things before I go any further.
1. Is the ball inside a dumb idea?
2. If the ball stays, should it be dyed black, or left natural? Right now it's
unfinished cherry. I could do one in maple which would match the
vessel closer if it was to stay natural.
3. How are the proportions on this vessel? (It's covered with Anchor Seal
and drying, just roughed so the bottom won't remain like it is.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/RickM1_album/004-4.jpg


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh17/RickM1_album/006-5.jpg


One other question; would this vessel be a good candidate for dying? Not much going on with the grain. If I was to dye it I guess the ball could be dyed to match???
Any and all opinions would be welcome. Thanks for looking.

[patrick michael stein]

hi richard
very cool idea if you dye the vessel you should dye the ball the same .imho




patrick

[David E Keller]

I really, really like the captured sphere. I think it's a good idea to match it to the main vessel. Whether you dye it or not is entirely up to you, but I'm leaning toward dye. Another option would be to bleach it.

I like the proportions of the vessel in it's rough form, and I think the finial looks good with it... It doesn't really follow the "rules" for height, but it has such visual weight that I'm afraid if it were too much taller it would overwhelm the vessel.

I'm not proud, so I'll ask... How'd you get that ball in that there twisty part?

[Jeff Luedloff]

your captured sphere is awesome idea, I think it should match your vessel also. just my opinion.

[Dave Carey]

I think it's way cool and agree that having the same finish on the ball and the vessel pulls the whole piece together.

[Richard Madden]

David,
Thanks for the comments. The ball started off with two pieces of cherry glued together with a piece of newspaper between, and after turning the sphere they were split apart. The halves would barely fit in the "spokes". For now they are joined with rubber cement until I decide what to do next.

[David DeCristoforo]

This is going to get really repetitious but the idea is beyond cool and the ball "should" match the color of the vessel.

[John Keeton]

Richard, I kinda like the captured ball!! Here are my thoughts.

I would want the ball the same wood as the form. The cherry will age differently regardless of whether you dye the piece and/or the ball.

I would prefer to have the ball glued on the bottom so it doesn't rattle around.

When you finish the vase, are you going to transition the shoulder up to the finial? I would probably slim the waist some and taper to the bottom a little more than you have it now. I think that would keep the finial in better proportion to the form. Right now, the form has a lot of mass, and the finial doesn't "lift" it much.

Personally, I only like dyed pieces when they have fairly heavy figure or burl. That way, one gets some contrast and interest. Otherwise, you just go from one color form to another (unnatural color usually.) But, that is just me. There have been several dyed pieces of very plain maple that get rave reviews.

All of this from a guy that has never done a vase!! So, take it for what it is worth.;)

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Very nice. My $0.02 would be natural finish. I just personally do not like dyes or stains. Seems like I'm way in the minority.

[Don Alexander]

i tend to prefer natural wood as opposed to dye

so +1 for natural

and i too think this piece is way cool

[Jerry Lawrence]

I, too, having never made a vase, am no expert but here is what my eye thinks: I like the captured ball a lot, but think it seems just a little large. Maybe a ball made of stone of some sort, like soapstone, would look nice if it has some veins or color in it. I was thinking a nice hand-blown glass marble or large teardrop shaped bead would look cool, but after reading your method of inserting the ball, I guess that's out. I also think the bottom of the finial and the top of the vase look like they're not quite in relation with each other size-wise. As for staining the woods, I have always been a fan of natural wood. Just my $.02, if it's worth that much :)

[John Hart]

Richard,
How much wall thickness do you have to work with?

[Richard Madden]

John,
This vessel is almost 8" in dia. wall thickness is around 1".

[John Hart]

Ok..well, that's quite a bit. It seems to me that you might want to slender it down a bit, so that the shoulder follows the slope of the finial base. At least a little while, then take the shoulder down through a nicely feminine curve throughout the body to a fairly narrow foot.
This is all to compliment a finial which is the star attraction of this piece.

And for whatever my opinion might be worth...I think that dye would upstage the star. And that finial is a STAR.

I think you have jewel to uncover. I'm anxious to see it.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Wow - that's pretty cool!

I agree with John K - use the same wood for both the main form and the ball. Whether you dye of not - having both from the same wood would help tie the piece together.

For me - to dye the piece or not would depend on it's function. If it is intended to be used as a display or piece of art - then I would dye it. You can always sand portions of the form back to expose the natural wood - so it doesn't have to be monochromatic.

If the completed piece is to be used as an urn - for example - then a more formal look would be appropriate and I would leave it in it's natural color.

Good luck with completing the piece! Looking forward to seeing it!

[Jon Lanier]

I like the idea of leaving it the ball natural. I was looking at that and trying to figure out how you got the ball inside the cage.

In fact, could you do a tutorial on it? pics or video of the process.

I love it! IMHO

[Norm Zax]

Just to go against the grain - how about a metallic color such as bronze or silver?

[Ken Glass]

Richard,
You have all the suggestions you need. I think it will be a spectacular Vase and Finial when finished. You seem to have all the material in the Vase you need to shape it to your eye's liking. From seeing your work, I have no doubt it will be wonderful . Thanks for sharing.

[Michelle Rich]

Here's my 1cents worth: do not dye the vessel unless you totally dye it so nothing shows thru..opaque..the wood has no real interesting features..if you dye you will have dye with no interesting features. The ball is neither here nor there for me..I think no ball would show off the spiriling better (IMHO) tho ofcourse the ability to capture a ball is wonderful..I would like the spiraling to be longer pitch..again IMHO..so it appears to reach for the sky...But Heck it's a fine vessel just as it is..I'd like it finished with no other changes. Is that namby-pamby enough?

[Mark Hubl]

Richard, I like it. I like the idea of the trapped sphere. Not always, but it does work. I agree with most, I would like to see the sphere match the vase. Dyed pieces look great, so do natural, really your choice. I like the less complicated treatment at the top of your previous example. I agree that the foot needs to go and would work on a more elegant transition to the finial. Will you be installing a collar? (I would guess yes since you threaded the finial) Can't wait to see the finished piece.

[Thom Sturgill]

I agree with the Johns. *IF* you die, die the ball. Replace the ball with matching maple. Get rid of the ridge at the top so there is a smooth transition to the finial and possibly narrow the base.

For me die (actually any penetrating finish) will make 'curl' or 'figure' pop as the end grains absorb differently from the face grains, but does little for plain grain. Other than that I would limit dying to match some other need like matching some furnishings (or book cases?) color scheme, but it can be dramatic on its own. It would probablt just take away from that finial which as has been said, is the star!

[David Woodruff]

My opinion only with no criticism intended. Slim down the vessel into a french curve, gently sloping shoulder and narrow bottom and foot. As this is plain jane grain, I would bleach it as white as I could get it. The black finial is fine with a little work on the finial base to blend with the vase shoulder. I would lose the ball and allow an open finial. If that is the way you go I would like to see the finished product. Hell, I would like to see the finished product however you do it. I think it will be you and that is what we strive for in our work, individuality. Good Luck

[David Woodruff]

I already have another opinion better than my first opinion, in my opinion. The vessel shoulder looks good, bottom looks to heavy, so turn that smaller with a nicely formed foot. The one you have now looks to heavy and too thick. Study a french curve compared to your vessel profile and see what that tells you. I learn a lot from that process. Keep the ball and also bleach it white.
Gonna be awesome!!!!!!!!!

[John Keeton]

David has convinced me on the bleaching!!! Great idea to really show off the finial. And, he has done a much better job of describing the slimming and curvature of the sides. Not sure on the foot, but bet it would work fine.

[Wally Dickerman]

Richard, the finial is quite elegant. The vase itself deserves some special treatment to complement the finial. If I use dye I do it to pop out the beautiful figure in a piece of wood. Since there is little or no figure in your peice, I would go in another direction. Have you considered some type of texturing, perhaps follow by bleaching? There are many ways to texture wood. You might have fun experimenting. If you go that route then I would suggest blackening the ball in the finial.

Wally

[Richard Madden]

Richard, the finial is quite elegant. The vase itself deserves some special treatment to complement the finial. If I use dye I do it to pop out the beautiful figure in a piece of wood. Since there is little or no figure in your peice, I would go in another direction. Have you considered some type of texturing, perhaps follow by bleaching? There are many ways to texture wood. You might have fun experimenting. If you go that route then I would suggest blackening the ball in the finial.

Wally


Wally,
I like the idea of texturing and bleaching. For texturing, would you think beading the entire surface might work? I remember seeing some of your pieces with beading and they looked great. Of course I would need a beading tool and as I recall yours was a '''secret weapon". Hows about you sharing with me the "secret weapon" even if it was through a PM so the rest of the world could still wonder. My lips would be sealed and I could be sworn to secrecy.:D Just joking around Wally. When you mentioned texturing my first thought was your beading and how good it looks. It could be that beading might make things a little too busy for a piece that size. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Wally Dickerman]

Wally,
I like the idea of texturing and bleaching. For texturing, would you think beading the entire surface might work? I remember seeing some of your pieces with beading and they looked great. Of course I would need a beading tool and as I recall yours was a '''secret weapon". Hows about you sharing with me the "secret weapon" even if it was through a PM so the rest of the world could still wonder. My lips would be sealed and I could be sworn to secrecy.:D Just joking around Wally. When you mentioned texturing my first thought was your beading and how good it looks. It could be that beading might make things a little too busy for a piece that size. Thanks for the suggestions.

Richard, with this piece you are showcasing the finial. I think that beading might be a little too much. (Even if you had a WD beading tool):) John Jordan textures most of his pieces using an impact tool and a rounded off nail. By moving the impacting nail slowly over the surface he gets sort of an orange peel affect. A dremel tool with a round burrr can be used, I have a Sorby texturing tool which by using the various cutters can give a variety of textures. Using a wire brush to roughen the surface can work well. Fooling around with various ways of texturing opens up a whole new way of treating the wood surface. I've used a pyrography pen in various ways to texture. You may have seen my "giraffe" pieces.....Experiment.

Wally

[Mike Minto]

very nice work - the loose ball is very unique. another turner's work with 'hollow finials' can be seen at:

http://www.yvonnearlott.com/index.php.

I, too, agree with other's opinions on the transition of the form to the finial (should be smoother and continuous) and that the foot would look better with a smaller diameter and no 'foot'. That 1" thickness does give you the room to adjust it. If you do, post more pics!

[Richard Madden]

Mike,
Thanks for the link, I've saved it. She does some beautiful work.
The foot on the vessel will be completely removed. It's there now to act as a shoulder for the chuck. Hopefully I will wind up with a nice taper ending at a small base. I really appreciate all the comments and opinions everyone has expressed. It helps a lot. I'm learning as I go with these finials. Had some comments that the ebony finial was too short, so I'm making another, this time out of walnut again. Ran out of ebony. I found that sycamore isn't a good choice. I'll keep playing around with the finials, have plenty of time while the vessel is drying.

[Mike Minto]

Richard, one last comment, based on what you said regarding the finial for this piece - I like the shorter finial, on this taller type form. Long finials go with short forms, I think, so you might not want to go too tall with the next one you make for this form. I'd want to see what this form looks like, with the current finial, after you mod the vase itself.

[Paul Douglass]

Well, being a stone (not stoned) fan I like to see a ball turned out of soap stone in that final.