Ebay vent....

[Chris Harry]

Im all for someone selling something and making the most they can, no problems with that (because hey sometimes Im on that side too)

But I just cant understand how people bid on ebay.

I saw an Akeda 16" jig go up this morning. Starting price of 250, Buy It Now of 350. I almost bit....I want the jig, but Id rather hold out for the 24" version.

So anyway I headed back to the page an hour or two after I first saw it, and the BIN is gone (someone bid on it) and the current bid is now over the BIN price. And the auction still has 4+ days left on it.

I just cant understand why people bid that way.

Funny thing is I probably SHOULD have bit. Its a place fairly local to me so I would have saved shipping cost. Oh well.

/rant

[David Weaver]

If you ever see something that you want, and the BIN price is where you are comfortable with, you will likely never make out waiting for the bidding to start.

I've done the same thing several times, and every time the bidding has gone way over the original BIN price. Just the nature of the beast.

If I see something I want now and the BIN price is tolerable, I just buy it - *especially* if the BIN price is below any reasonable percentage of recent auctions for the same item.

I personally never BIN sell anything that is also auction. I generally start my auctions at a penny (I don't sell much) and just let things go. I have done better with that, and the listing fees are less. For every two tools that I cast off and list like that, that don't bring what I want, it seems like another 5 or so bring way more than I thought they should've.

People like to control the final price. They'd rather pay you $50 more if they get to be the ones executing the final price as a bid.

Had a John Bell raised panel plane a couple of years ago that I bought and the realized it was difficult to use (it was a huge one with some mouth erosion). I put it on ebay for $150 for two months (paid $12 for the luxury of listing it for 2 months and not selling it). Sat on it for a little while, and put it up again starting at a penny and it went for about $180. Nobody wanted to pay $150 unless they thought someone else might, too.

Anymore, I think ebay is a lot better place to sell things than to buy them, but even at that, their FVF+paypal fees are enough to make you think twice if you're not yet sure you want to get rid of something.

[Chris Harry]

I wasnt expecting to wait out the bid price, actually. I was just wavering on if I wanted to buy it or not.

I fully expected it to sell, but via BIN and not regular bidding. My reasoning was that the people looking at an Akeda dovetail jig know close to (or exactly) what its worth. And the 350 BIN price was a really good deal, even if it was *only* the 16" model.

Similar to your experience, I got a tip or two from an avid seller. The biggest one is that people like fixed shipping costs. It doesnt matter (within reason) how MUCH the shipping cost is, as long as its fixed. It makes no sense to me, but it seems to work! Ill sell an item and price out shipping from CT (where I am) to CA (pretty much farthest it could go), make that the fixed shipping cost and people have no problems paying it, regardless of where Im shipping it.

You are right about the fees, though. Its really out of hand....Ive resorted to CL for selling woodworking tools, as I dont seem to have to worry too much about the people that show up to buy it. Some other stuff (car audio, car parts, etc) I tend not even to bother with. Too many "Im comin to get it" and never showing up. Its ashame, but I now recycle the smaller stuff and try to bring the bigger stuff to scrap.

[Bryan Morgan]

I know someone who just put something up with a Buy It Now price of $85. People bid past this and it sold for something like $140. :confused: They actually paid so it wasn't a scam or anything.

[Brian Hughner]

Chris,

I'm the one that caused the problem. I put the first bid in on that Akeda auction on Ebay.

I'm looking for the 16" jig but the Jig Store has them back ordered until December (anyone know where else to buy them??). Unfortunately I have some Kitchen drawers that need to be done next month and I really wanted the Akeda to do them. I saw the BIN price of $350, and while its a good price, I was hoping to get it for less.

Looking back I should have just bought it at $350.

Anyway, someone else came along and jacked up the price to where it sits now.

Brian

[Rick Markham]

Ebay can be really frustrating sometime. People I don't understand, never will, nor do I want to!. If I look at the Lie Nielsen tools, sometimes I can get a "deal" and save a few dollars from new and get a plane sock with it, but other times I watch a no. 9 miter plane worth $375 brand new, go to over $400 bucks? Now I have always chalked some of this up to the fact that someone doesn't know the true value. But it seems to happen quite a bit.

I pretty much buy something that I need if it has the BIN price and it is a "deal" and not worry about it. If it isn't I will bid at the last moment if it still reasonable, what I am willing to pay for it. If I get it... great... if I don't... Oh well. There will be another one along shortly.

I have found bidding on an item too far in advance severly limits your chances of getting it. People mysteriously think there is some fantastic deal there. It always ends up being counter productive. My watch list is extensive in Ebay, and most doesn't get bid on, but occasionally something does because it isn't ridiculous in the last closing minutes.

I admit, the fixed shipping is frustrating. In fact only one time have I had a seller refund a portion of the shipping because the item cost less to ship. That made me really happy. Honestly I would much rather pay what the actual shipping is, than some pre-quoted price.

[Brian Elfert]

Ebay makes it so easy to charge the actual shipping charge that I don't know why you would use a flat rate for shipping unless using USPS flat rate boxes.

As a seller you simply put in the shipper, dimensions, and weight plus any handling fee and Ebay's system displays the shipping charge customized for each buyer based on their zip code. Ebay even lists the shipping charge on the search results page.

I hate the sellers who still charge an inflated shipping fee and charge very little for the product. I found a seller that is local to me who won't allow local pickup I'm sure because they are charging grossly inflated shipping.

[Karl Card]

well I am glad that I am not the only one who feels this way and sees what is happening...

the ebay rules tick me off because as a seller I get a copy of these rules and noone enforces them.. I have seen cat condos go for 99 cents.... shipping was 200 dollars.... I really dont think the shipping was 200 in fact id bet on it...

then the starting bid and the bin price are supposed to be no more than 10 percent difference..... yeah i see 99 cent openers for a bin of 350 bucks...

I sold my pens and pencil sets on ebay a while back and did ok but then the fees started really kicking in and I just said forget it...

I still want to sell pens but I think I will just do flea markets and art shows and craft shows and then maybe start my own web site and try and stay away from ebay for selling.

[Jim Koepke]

I can never understand some of the sellers or bidders on ebay.

Ebay does not charge fees on shipping. That is why some people are trying to get around the fees by charging high shipping and low start on the bid.

When I was in a buying situation, I would often put in the minimum bid on an item. Got quite a few chisels and planes that way.

For selling, I think the listing, selling and paypal fees have become too much. I have not sold anything there in a while.

I used to try to ship everything in flat rate boxes. I would also include the shipping in the bidding. Couldn't do that now having to give up at least a buck to ebay for a medium flat rate box.

Some of the LN tools that are at a higher rate than new may be going over seas and not have to pay duty if they are used. That would make it lower priced for some. There are those who fall prey to the bidding frenzy.

I liked ebay better when I could see the information on who was bidding against me.

One of my memories of one seller listing three scraper planes in the same listing. He did not know what he had. There was a #12, #12-1/2 and #12-3/4. He had them listed with a buy it now of $75. Someone put in a low bid and killed the BIN. There were a few people trying to get him to sell it at the BIN. I was communicating with him and had no interest other than a few informational questions. He was frustrated because he couldn't figure out how to get the BIN to display again after a bid.

It ended up at about $1500 for a close. I sent him a quick note saying that I bet he was glad he couldn't figure out how to kill the auction to sell them for $75.

For those who do not know, the #12-3/4 is scarce and will sell for about $1500 all by it self.

jim

[Chris Harry]

Chris,

I'm the one that caused the problem. I put the first bid in on that Akeda auction on Ebay.

I'm looking for the 16" jig but the Jig Store has them back ordered until December (anyone know where else to buy them??). Unfortunately I have some Kitchen drawers that need to be done next month and I really wanted the Akeda to do them. I saw the BIN price of $350, and while its a good price, I was hoping to get it for less.

Looking back I should have just bought it at $350.

Anyway, someone else came along and jacked up the price to where it sits now.

Brian

Hope I didnt offend you with my rant :) Im actually only 45 minutes from Bloomfield, I coulda picked it up for ya!!

I agree *I* should have gotten it for the 350 too, but you live and learn. I too am disappointed that the only place we can get it from (Jig Store) is backordered until Dec. I also wanted the 24" jig, thats why I hesitated on the Ebay one.

On the other hand, it gives me about 3 months to convince the wife ;)

[Chris Harry]

Ebay makes it so easy to charge the actual shipping charge that I don't know why you would use a flat rate for shipping unless using USPS flat rate boxes.

As a seller you simply put in the shipper, dimensions, and weight plus any handling fee and Ebay's system displays the shipping charge customized for each buyer based on their zip code. Ebay even lists the shipping charge on the search results page.

I hate the sellers who still charge an inflated shipping fee and charge very little for the product. I found a seller that is local to me who won't allow local pickup I'm sure because they are charging grossly inflated shipping.

I should have specified....this was a very long time ago before Ebay made it easy to punch in shipping info. I also refuse to use USPS or UPS (been burnt a few times), and since Ebay doesnt have a "relationship" with FedEx any Ebay-driven calculator will be off.

I choose UPS ground in the calculator and thats what the buyer pays for. 99.9% of the time the UPS price is close to or the same as the FedEx price, so its a good enough "estimate".

It will soon be a moot point because the fees for selling and getting paid are ridiculous, so I will either start hoarding stuff, CL-ing stuff, or tossing stuff. Or all three.

[David G Baker]

Before Ebay/PayPal got so greedy I would have over 100 auctions a year. I do less than one or two a year. Ebay has forgotten who put them in business and kept them there for several years. Now they pretty much support the large sellers.
If I do sell I use Flat Rate Priority Mail if the item will fit. If the item is large and heavy I use UPS.
I also put a price on the item that is the minimum price I will take for it. I never bid on an item until the auction is almost over, I frequently get Sniped though.

[David Weaver]

As long as ebay keeps growing revenue, they aren't going to change much.

It's still a place to get some things, and if you're a flea market hunter looking for maximum ease on transactions (i.e., not lots of emails back and forth to arrange payment), I guess it's still good (I'm not a flea market hunter).

The one thing I've been able to get there that I haven't been able to get anywhere else are gimlet bits for a brace. Used japanese tools can also be a good deal if you buy them on a tuesday or whatever and they aren't some brand that japan woodworker sells, or that FWW tests.

[Cary Falk]

We just got done with a round of selling on E-Bay. The fees charged and forcing you to use PayPal is crazy. We also found that the people that we delt with this time around were a total PITA. It might be the economy. The last bunch of people that I delt with on CL weren't all that great either. The rest of the stuff is going to CL. At least there isn't any fees on CL.

[Chris Damm]

I sold a dump trailer that had a BIN of $2600 and a reserve of $2500. When the reserve was met the BIN disappeared. I had a guy stop and look at it the day before the auction, He could have bought it then for the BIN price. He ended up losing out and bid $3160 and was beat out by a guy that bid $3260! Hey people can be dumb but it worked out for me. I bought the trailer new for $2995 and used it for 7 years. Of course a new one was up to $3995 by then.

[Karl Card]

I am puzzled.... Others stated that once someone makes a bid that the bin goes away... I have seen bids on things and the bin is still there... Is this an option or....???

My jet lathe had a buy it now of 199 and i wanted to ask the seller a question.... well when i went back to the auction 1 person had bid but the bin was still there.... needless to say I went ahead and bin' ed it...

So I am curious if we are talking about the same thing.

[Chris Harry]

I am puzzled.... Others stated that once someone makes a bid that the bin goes away... I have seen bids on things and the bin is still there... Is this an option or....???

My jet lathe had a buy it now of 199 and i wanted to ask the seller a question.... well when i went back to the auction 1 person had bid but the bin was still there.... needless to say I went ahead and bin' ed it...

So I am curious if we are talking about the same thing.

I *think* the BIN will stay if there is a reserve auction and the reserve hasnt been met yet.

Once the reserve is met I think the BIN goes away and it acts like a regular auction from then on.

[Brian Hughner]

I was under the same impression, that the BIN would stay there. I was thinking that if the bidding seemed to be header up to the BIN I would just purchase it with the BIN. But as soon as I bid it looks like the BIN disappeared.

[Chris Harry]

Yeah, now that you mention it, it does seem odd.

Maybe the seller is playing games? Who knows. With ebay you just NEVER know.

Im dutifully looking for a deal on a Leigh or Akeda jig, but not much is popping up. Looks like I might just wait until Dec and see if I can actually get a BC24 from the jig store. Full price stinks (especially when full price is HIGH), but as I look at more and more opinions on the Leigh jigs I find more and more "mine sits in the corner now that I got the Akeda" or "the Leigh is nice but I dont want to re-learn for a week"....

[Brian Hughner]

If I don't end up with the Akeda jig I'll have to go with someone else since I have a deadline coming up for kitchen drawers. If I had to pick another jig I think I'd go with a Leigh jig since it seems to be the closet to what I want. I think it'll be a compromise but it should work for now. Unless I fall in love with the Leigh, I'll probably upgrade to the Akeda DC24 jig sometime the future.

[Mike Cruz]

Brian, for me, the weight is the X factor. I don't have a scale to measure, and I've tried guessing and it cost me. So, I put in flat fee, or free shipping and eat it (and KNOW that I'm going to eat it).

[Chris Harry]

If I don't end up with the Akeda jig I'll have to go with someone else since I have a deadline coming up for kitchen drawers. If I had to pick another jig I think I'd go with a Leigh jig since it seems to be the closet to what I want. I think it'll be a compromise but it should work for now. Unless I fall in love with the Leigh, I'll probably upgrade to the Akeda DC24 jig sometime the future.

Id order a new Leigh in a heartbeat...its about the same (high) price as the Akeda BC24 that isnt in stock anywhere.

Whats stopping me is the fact that the Akeda is ready to go out of the box (for the most part), already has very good dust collection, etc. The Leigh needs to be assembled (not always a bad thing.......its nice to know the ins and outs of something), but really needs the add-on VRS for good dust collection and better router stability.

[Brian Hughner]

I agree about the need for the VRS. The dust collection and stability were the two big reasons for going with the Akeda. If I don't end up winning the Akeda bidding and end up going with the Leigh, I would only think about getting the Leigh package that includes the VRS.

Amazon and other sites have the Leigh packages that include the jig and associated VRS. The cost for the Leigh package is much higher than the comparable package deals that the Jig Store has for the Akedas but its not a bad compromise.

[Chris Harry]

You can get the large Akeda accessory kit on Ebay for a really good price. Another reason Im leaning towards waiting for the Akeda. Id end up with all the accessories and the jig for a lot less than the equivalent leigh setup.

The only advantage to the Leigh at that point would be the extra templates (like isoloc, etc)

[Dave Hartunian]

Has anyone done a search and noticed the BIN postings far outweigh the auction listings? Never used to be that way.
Dave

[Butch Edwards]

I've found that there's 2 ways to bid on Ebay: 1- bid the amount you're willing to pay right from the start,and forget it..if you win, good, if someone outbids you,fine, you didn't get into a bidding war that leads to what the OP was about.... and 2- watch and wait and snipe at the last second ..legal but borderline bad sport. I've been sniped, and have won auctions that were failed snipe attempts..I don't snipe, I bid and walk away. most BIN items aren't usually a bargain..but some are and I've bought that way. I ALWAYS see how much shipping is before I bid. too many people trying to make $$$ from it, and I refuse to support it or them.

[Dan Hintz]

I see quite a few items with a BIN price of 'X' and a starting bid of 'X' - a few dollars. Those items are usually listed 20 times over, so I place the minimum bid and wait... I usually win it.

[Brian Elfert]

There are a lot of BIN items that are good deals on Ebay. I just bought some Dexter electric brake assemblies with bearings and seals for $42 each shipped last night. Trailer shops charge $65 without the bearings and seals around here. I saved around $100 on 4 brake assemblies to fix my trailer.

The parts come from a real brick and mortar retailer, not some guy in his garage if that even matters.

[Norberto Coutinho]

US$ 40,00 in BIN :)
US$ 16.000,00 for S&H :D :confused: :( :eek:
.
cgi.ebay.com/New-CJQ-6040-Laser-Engraving-Machine-/180504066921?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

[Bryan Morgan]

US$ 40,00 in BIN :)
US$ 16.000,00 for S&H :D :confused: :( :eek:
.
cgi.ebay.com/New-CJQ-6040-Laser-Engraving-Machine-/180504066921?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0



THIS is the crap that angers me. People selling a $50 thing for $2 and charging you $75 shipping. I know its to avoid the eBay fees but come on... their site has rules, they need to make money. Pay the fees or do something else but this stuff is dishonest. I never buy from these types of people.

[David Weaver]

It also puts you in a pickle if you get an item and it's not as described.

Someone sent me a vacuum last year, a SEBO, and it didn't work. After much arguing even after demonstrating the lack of function on video and mailing it back and paying for shipping both ways, I was out $65 for the pleasure of wasting my time on a vacuum the seller obviously never looked at. Smelled, too.

Even so, I ended up out $270 instead of being out $330.

If one of those shipping shams would've been done on the auction, I'd have been out all of it without some major time spent dealing with paypal and ebay to explain the situation.

AS it was, when the seller treaded water for a while deciding he was maybe not going to give a refund, a quick file of a dispute with paypal/ebay got him moving.

Something to think about if you're ever going to take the gamble on one of those auctions with high shipping and a low sale price.

[Brian Hughner]

Just to follow up on the auction that started this discussion:

The bid price if now up to $405, with $30 shipping the price for this used jig is now more than you could buy it new from the Jig Store (if they had it in stock!).

And there is still more than a day to go in the auction.

Crazy.

[Matt Meiser]

Ebay has really gone downhill. I haven't sold anything for a while. It used to be most sellers were honest people doing Ebay on the side. Now its a crapshoot. I've bought a number of tech items in the past several weeks. Twice the item has been seriously misrepresented. The first the seller wouldn't respond to emails. Ebay and Paypal claims were eventually processed. I had to send the item back at my expense. This one I'm waiting to see what the seller says. I actually want the item but it doesn't have some upgrades that were listed. I've given him the option of a partial refund, sending me an immediate refund plus a return shipping label, or me contacting Amex, Paypal, and Ebay, because after the last, I decided that I'm paying for anything with a vendor I don't know via my Amex to give me that option.

[Chris Harry]

Just to follow up on the auction that started this discussion:

The bid price if now up to $405, with $30 shipping the price for this used jig is now more than you could buy it new from the Jig Store (if they had it in stock!).

And there is still more than a day to go in the auction.

Crazy.

Yep, wait until it ends....in the last hour I bet there will be a flurry of even more bids.

Granted it comes with some accessories, but even still. The 350 price would have been OK for me because I wouldnt be paying shipping (less than an hour drive for me), but anything above the 350 would have been pushing it.