10 Things Gas Stations Won't Tell You

[Dave Lehnert]

Interesting read.

http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/rip-offs/what-gas-stations-wont-tell-you-19750/

[Dave Gaul]

Yes, very interesting!

Thanks Dave!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

He buys gas on the road?
Where does the author live? In a three gas station town ?
He buys on the road? Because it's cheaper? Who is he kidding? Highway gas is beastly expensive.

Buying at non-branded stations is a crap shoot. Some of those guys buy their gas from gypsy trucker types many of whom don't clean their rigs, get the dregs from the suppliers because it's cheaper, and otherwise may have contaminants in the fuel they deliver.
There's a lot that can happen to gasoline between the refinery and the pump.

FYI: There is a whole industry out the on the internet-S composed of idiotic know nothings who, being utterly unemployable and unfit for any purpose, are sitting at home doing really bad shallow research on Wiki (if they do any at all) and then plagiarizing the nonsense they sift from the web (or just making stuff up) create little web articles (it's called "content") purporting to be informative and sadly, rarely are.


I believe the purpose of this whole Content Generation industry is all about trying to accomplish two things: (1) To keep the search engine spiders attention because content - even if it is garbage - directly affects search engine ranking, and (2) to draw people into the websites.
But there is no body of experts supervising the stuff that gets posted. That would cost money.


I have no idea is this particular article was created by such a process but, it seems to be full of hooey.

[Dan Hintz]

Most points seem reasonable to me, Cliff. I won't buy gas just off of the highway, if I can help it, but the price differential between one station and another a block away can be pretty dramatic.

Was there something in particular (other than the highway purchase) that stuck in your craw about that article?

[Dave Lehnert]

Living in Cincinnati we are a Tristate area. Ohio, Ky, Indiana. We drive in each state like one may drive to town. Getting gas here in Ohio may be 10 to 15 cents more expensive than Ky only 10 min away on my way to work or shopping.

[Jim Rimmer]

Most points seem reasonable to me, Cliff. I won't buy gas just off of the highway, if I can help it, but the price differential between one station and another a block away can be pretty dramatic.

Was there something in particular (other than the highway purchase) that stuck in your craw about that article?
I don't know about Cliff but the "all gas is the same" bothers me. I did my own experiment a few years ago on my wife's new Accord. She was getting really low mileage compared to what Honda had claimed. She was buying gas at WalMart and Kroger. I asked her for one month to buy only Shell. It could have been any major brand, Exxon, Chevron, etc. but I just picked Shell because there a lot of Shell stations near us. Her mileage increased almost 5 MPG. We haven't bought bargain gas since.

[Dan Hintz]

Jim,

The gas sharing is certainly real... the mom & pop shops get filled with one of the known major brands of gas, just be out and about late at night or early in the morning when they get their refills. Interesting to see Ma & Pa Tucket's Gas'n'Go getting refilled by a truck with a huge Exxon label on the side. Detergents are added at the semi tanker level, with the driver himself adding it in once he has topped off ready for delivery.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Interesting read.

http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/rip-offs/what-gas-stations-wont-tell-you-19750/

From the book, 1001 Things......

http://www.smartmoney.com/1001things/

Most of this is common sense or gripes about debit card fees or warnings about buying overpriced food at a gas station. Pretty basic web-based wisdom.
.

[Dave Gaul]

I live about a mile from a Sunoco Logistics site... distribution/storage site for petro products, including LP... Most of the tanker trucks going in an out of there are NOT Sunoco trucks... they are distributer's trucks, and they are seen delivering petro to ALL the stations around here... I've NEVER seen a Exxon, Mobil, Shell or any other major name truck around here, just the Sunoco Trucks and the other carrier lines that go in and out of the Sunoco site....

[Chris Kennedy]

Jim,

The gas sharing is certainly real... the mom & pop shops get filled with one of the known major brands of gas, just be out and about late at night or early in the morning when they get their refills. Interesting to see Ma & Pa Tucket's Gas'n'Go getting refilled by a truck with a huge Exxon label on the side. Detergents are added at the semi tanker level, with the driver himself adding it in once he has topped off ready for delivery.


I don't know about Cliff but the "all gas is the same" bothers me. I did my own experiment a few years ago on my wife's new Accord. She was getting really low mileage compared to what Honda had claimed. She was buying gas at WalMart and Kroger. I asked her for one month to buy only Shell. It could have been any major brand, Exxon, Chevron, etc. but I just picked Shell because there a lot of Shell stations near us. Her mileage increased almost 5 MPG. We haven't bought bargain gas since.

All gases are not the same -- not by a long shot. My dad was a research chemist for one of the big oil companies and for a while, his job was to analyze the competitors to work out exactly what they were putting into the gas and whether it would do what they advertised.

It is definitely true that one refinery will supply many of the local Gas 'n Go, but just because the gas is coming out of the local Big Oil refinery, it doesn't mean you are getting Big Oil gas. The refinery can produce at varying quality levels, which they will sell to the local distributors.

It seems to me a lot of the observations were rather simplistic.

Cheers,

Chris

[Scott Shepherd]

Ethyl corporation is headquartered in town here. A recent conversation by a friend of mine with one of their people shed some light on it to me. They make additives. It's apparently some brick or solid type product and they drop it into the tank while it's on the truck, if I understood it correctly.

So it might all be heading out the same formula, but once they drop that stuff in the tank, it changes it before it reaches the station.

He told me that they had all sorts of testing facilities here, and they extensively proved that gas with their additives were yielding cleaner, longer lasting engines.

[David Weaver]

yikes..

...the thing that creates long lasting engines is a lack of manufacturing defects and clean incoming air and clean oil (i.e, a proper working filter).

I'd have been asking that guy what percentage of engine longevity increase the additives are responsible for. Anymore, I can't keep a car long enough to wear out the engines - the failing electrical bits on them start wearing out my wallet and patience (for the ones I can easily get to) before the engine is burning oil.

I have never noticed a mileage difference unless the comparison is 10% ethanol vs. just enough for it to be an oxygenate. I will generally buy the gasoline with the least ethanol I can find, though some counties have a 10% mandate, and sometimes you get 10% of it just because it's cheaper due to government waste. Otherwise, I buy the cheapest - branded or unbranded - that I can find as long as the department of weights and measures sticker indicates a passed test (there is actually a pump at one of the local stations with a "failed" sticker on it, not sure what the remedy is there - I guess it's waiting for the department to test it again before the sticker is changed to "pass", but the pump is still in service - figure that one out).

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Most points seem reasonable to me, Cliff.

I didn't read the whole thing. The two statements I referenced gave me reason to blow the whole thing off. They could not have been more wrong.

[Bob Turkovich]

yikes..

I have never noticed a mileage difference unless the comparison is 10% ethanol vs. just enough for it to be an oxygenate. I will generally buy the gasoline with the least ethanol I can find, though some counties have a 10% mandate, and sometimes you get 10% of it just because it's cheaper due to government waste. Otherwise, I buy the cheapest - branded or unbranded - that I can find as long as the department of weights and measures sticker indicates a passed test (there is actually a pump at one of the local stations with a "failed" sticker on it, not sure what the remedy is there - I guess it's waiting for the department to test it again before the sticker is changed to "pass", but the pump is still in service - figure that one out).

David,

I would highly advise you reconsider your branded/unbranded decision. About 3 years ago, I had an 8 week period of 65+ hour work weeks resolving a major warranty issue regarding fuel system "gumming". We were able to trace the problem to gasoline from a certain big-box warehouse. The quality of gasoline is dependent upon the distributor. Unfortunately, it is also not price dependent. A periodic survey conducted by the Materials people for the company I worked for showed the highest quality came from a small Midwest provider known for having low priced gas. In the long run, you are better off staying with the branded gasoline.

As far as ethanol is concerned, there are a couple of things to clear up. First of all, the % of allowable ethanol is typically controlled by the state, not the federal government. (At least that was the case 18 months ago before I retired.)

The vehicles you see running around with "Flex-Fuel" labels are able to handle E85 (that is, 85% ethanol.) To do so requires significant component changes in the fuel system to handle the "corrosive" nature of ethanol - from the tank all the way through the fuel injectors. These changes are not inexpensive. The auto manufacturers recommend non "Flex-Fuel" vehicles to use no more than 10% ethanol and perform their durability testing based on such. Most states have the 10% limit.

There are states - particularly in the grain belt - which were talking about going as high as 25% ethanol (in fact, in the past 18 months they may be allowing this). Those customers will be replacing injectors, fuel pumps, etc., sooner than others.

BTW, the survey I mentioned above showed the gasoline in some states with 10% ethanol mandates to be running as high as 15%. :(

[David Weaver]

Not a fan of ethanol myself. I don't know what the state mandates here, but I know the county where my wife grew up (agricultural county) seems to have a 10% mandate, because every single pump there has 10% ethanol.

In my county, the pumps just say "may contain up to".

Not surprised to hear that it's up to 15% in some places given the blender's credit.

90% of the time, my gas comes from a BP station at the bottom of the hill. Most of the rest, it comes from a shell station at the bottom of the hill on the other side. Those are the two cheapest around.

I've never had any issue with fuel that I'm aware of, and I have no trouble believing that from time to time, some unbranded stuff could cause problems. I think it could happen with branded stuff, though. My opportunities to buy unbranded gas occur generally when I visit my parents or my wife's parents.

I have a bigger fear of having too much ethanol in the gas due to the desire to shave a few cents - for the exact reasons you mention. The people who want to pass a 25% mandate have no regard for the longevity of anyone else's cars or their time in dealing with seals getting eaten by ethanol.

Anything above and beyond being used as an oxygenate, and in my opinion it's nothing other than a vote-buying scam. If people want to do something with corn for energy, they should just burn it for heat, skip the tax credits and skip driving up futures.

[Dave Lehnert]

When a statement is made "All gas is the same" they are speaking of the basic gas BEFORE the additives are added for each retailer they deliver to.
I am sure quality can differ in parts of the country because being supplied by a different refinery.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

he men wrote: "Woman, without her man, is nothing."
The women wrote "Woman: without her, man is nothing."
The feminists wrote: "Woman without. Her man is nothing."
.

How did the warrior punctuate it?

[Bill Cunningham]

If you want gas without ethanol, go to one of the larger Marinas. Older boats have a problem with even 10%. It eats seals, and over time combines with water and turns to gunk in your tank. (boat tanks aren't usually filled and emptied as often as car/truck tanks) Good Marina gas has no ethanol.. Just One of the reasons it costs more than street gas.

[Mitchell Andrus]

How did the warrior punctuate it?

I dunno.:confused:
.

[David Weaver]

If you want gas without ethanol, go to one of the larger Marinas. Older boats have a problem with even 10%. It eats seals, and over time combines with water and turns to gunk in your tank. (boat tanks aren't usually filled and emptied as often as car/truck tanks) Good Marina gas has no ethanol.. Just One of the reasons it costs more than street gas.

I wonder how much ethanol avgas has in it. Probably not much, either -I could google it, I guess.

First complaint I ever heard in my life - about ethanol - was about 7 or 8 years ago reading the redpowermagazine board. Randy Sohn (well known pilot) had put an aircraft grade fuel pump, IIRC, in a 1953 cadillac - maybe 3 times. He lives in minnesota, and I guess they got the higher %s of it first.

He was not a happy camper. Not sure how well his opinion went over on what was essentially a farming board filled with guys just hoping that the days of $1.50 a bushel corn were over.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I dunno.:confused:
.

Well the question struck me because without warriors and the result of their trade craft, the world would be a very different place.
It's always the victors who write the histories.

[Eric DeSilva]

I had to sit through a dinner after a Board meeting where most of the members were in the oil and gas industry. I ended up asking that precise question--any difference in gas between labels? I expected a lot of waffling and everyone saying their brand was best. The answer I got, surprisingly, is that most of these guys, if they had a choice, would use Texaco gas because they thought the additives were higher quality.

[David Weaver]

Maybe it's a northeast thing, but it seems like texaco is really expensive around here. The few shops left that have it have a pricing policy of "if you're going to bother us to come out of the garage and come to the counter, we're going to make it worth our while".

Is it more common in the midwest or south? It mostly seems to be attached to service station type places here, but they're fast disappearing, and if they don't, their gas pumps do.

[John Coloccia]

I wonder how much ethanol avgas has in it.

It has 0. There are many components in those engines that aren't designed to stand up to ethanol. There are potential condensation problems too where water would normally sink to the bottom of a tank and be easily drained, but it will tend to mix with the ethanol instead.

[Jim Rimmer]

Two more comments:

1. There are distribution facilities here in Houston along the ship channel where the tankers fill up. The additives are put into the gas at that point. It may be a Shell or Exxon tanker but the additives are determined by to whom they are delivering that particular tanker.

2. As to long lasting cars: most of the folks on this forum are frugal and look for vehicles that will be with them for a long time and take care of them the way they do their tools. However, the vast majority of the driving public change cars almost as often as they change shirts and never encounter the long term effect of ethanol, additives (or lack of) and dirty oil. The manufactureres and refiners know this and that's the public they are selling to.

I am surpised (shouldn't be) at the number of people who never "own" a car. They just make payments forever, almost the same as a lease.