Looking for a tenon saw, leaning towards a Wenzloff. Advice needed

[Will Boulware]

I'm looking for a good tenon saw. I've got the Veritas dovetail and crosscut combo, but I'm now in need of something to cut bigger tenons for my next project. I'm leaning towards the 19" Wenzloff, but I've heard great things about the LN 16" thin plate as well. Anybody have any experience or words of wisdom here? Any other outstanding saws I should be looking at? Any reason to buy/avoid a larger saw vs. a 14"? I've heard plenty of reasons why a larger saw is a good thing, but is there something glaringly obvious that I'm overlooking?

Thanks in advance,

Will

[Matt Radtke]

Perhaps consider something from Bad Axe: http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/

The theory, and I agree comparing how my saws feel, is that it is easier to keep a saw with a deeper sawplate square to your work. With the higher center of gravity, any tipping is easier to feel.

[David Weaver]

I can only testify to kits, as I got a couple from Wenzloff.

I think your preference for the orientation and location of the tote on a saw is more important than the rest of the details. tooth geometry can be changed easily, thin or thick plate really doesn't make any difference in real-life use unless you're racing someone, as long as we're not talking about ridiculously thick, like miter saws (and we're not).

I have a 14 inch sash kit and a 4 inch tall 16 inch rip tenon kit. The kit parts are done well. These are my first "new" saws - they are noticeably nicer than my old saws.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second buying one of mike's saws, just decide (maybe via talking to him) what style and location you want for a tote, how big the saw should be, and what tooth size and geometry you'd prefer.

[Jeremy Dorn]

I've got the thin plate LN 16" saw, and I will say its taken me a while to get used to using it. At first the extra height/length felt a bit awkward to me in use compared to my smaller 14" saws, especially when beginning a cut, but its grown on me. Once I got past the initial adjustment period I've been extremely satisfied with the saw, cuts very quickly and tracks to a line beautifully.

Unfortuatnely at the moment I don't any other comparably sized saws from other makers to compare it to, so that's about all I can contribute :)

JD

[Tony Shea]

I also can highly recomend the LN 16" thin plate tenon saw. It truely is a beauty. I agree in that the larger saw takes just a bit to get used to using. But the learning curve is very slim and once you figure it out this saw just buzzes through wood with the greatest of ease. I decided on it after attending the LN Open House here in Maine after talking with Deneb about them. He highly recomended the 16" thin plate and set me up with a 14", the 16", and some hardwood to give them a go to decide for myself. The ease of the 16" was very odvious and really is not a gimmick. It's not just the thin plate that makes this saw cut easier but the extra PPI that helps out as well. I really liked the feel and can attest to its' usefulness. Others may not agree about the thin plate being a true advantage and some think it can be a disadvantage.

This is also based on the fact that I have not tried any other makers' tenon saws such as one from Wenzloff or anyone else. I was just happy with the LN as I am local and was able to test drive it first, which is a big deal IMO. Good luck on your choice, I really don't think you'll be unhappy with any of them.

[george wilson]

The thinner plate removes less wood,so I would have to think it would be less work to saw with.

[Jack Camillo]

Either the Lie Nielsen or Wenzloff would be my choice. I hope to someday have a Wenzloff anything saw. I have a Lie Nielsen 14 inch cross-cut, 13 tpi, tenon saw and love it to death. I also have their small cross-cut saw. Sweetness in action they are. As was stated, Mike W. will talk with you (I spoke with him in the days before they caught up and they weren't taking orders) and his advice is valued in gold, if you ask me. And I'm sure the folks at LN will steer you right as well. Call 'em and explain your decision making process.

[Jim R Edwards]

I have a Lie Nielsen 14 inch 13 tpi crosscut and dovetail saw. I am very happy with them. I like the way the handle feels and the saw cuts wonderfully. I also have a 16 inch Disston and it is also a great saw. I find myself reaching for the Disston often, it cuts very fast and the handle is very confortable.

[jeff phillips]

I do not yet own a tennon saw; however, after the excellent customer service i experienced with bad axe toolworks when i purchased my two panel saws, I called him just this week and ordered his 18" tenon saw. I cant speak to the quality yet obviously, but he is a great guy to deal with.

[Mike Zilis]

I would like to highly recommend Bad Axe Toolworks. Mark would love to talk to you about crafting a tenon saw that meets your specific needs. He's built two of his 16" back saws for me and I won't hesitate to buy from him next time.

I have no connection to Bad Axe other than as a satisfied customer. Email Mark about what you want and give him a chance to tell you what he can do for you.

-Mike

[andrew messimer]

I have to give a shout out for Bad Axe Tool Works as well. I just recieved a 14" saw from Mark last week and so far it has been great. The build quality of the saw is excellent, the blade is very sharp, and cuts great. I got it with a walnut handle, stainless back, and stainless hardware. I hope to get a 16" rip in the near future. Aside from the saw Mark was a super guy to deal with. Answered my emails very quickly, and gave me updates at my request. I highly recommend him.

By the way, Hello everyone.

[Tom Henderson2]

I'm struck at how lucky we are to have so many wonderful options!

I'm a very nooby noob, so don't know much. I bought the LN 16" at their handtool event earlier this year; as others have said it is a real beast.

I'm somewhat more familiar with the Dovetail and smaller Crosscut saw; moving up to the 16" Tenon saw feels like I'm carrying King Arthur's sword or something.

I don't think you can go too wrong with the options that have been discussed.

Heck; buy a couple of them and tell us what you think!

-TH

[David Gendron]

I,m a fan of Mark saws at Bad Axe, they are the best saws I've used... I have some LN, Adria(realy good saws, but don,t make a large Tenon saw...), Wenzloff and Medallion. The latest is a realy good saw as well realy like it. And I'm sure there is other out there who makes great saws as well.

[Derek Cohen]

I have heard excellent reports on the LN 16". This is a 11 ppi saw with .020" thick plate. I have not used it a mate of mine has kept me abreast of his experiences, and he is very happy with it. As an aside, about a year ago he approached Thomas LN to make a tenon saw to his specs, which TLN subsequently did. The saw worked so well and so impressed LN that they put it into production. This is the saw.

Back in January I received a birthday present of a pair of custom Wenzloff saws, a thin bladed dovetail saw, and a thin bladed (.020") 16" tenon saw. This is 10 ppi. I cannot praise this saw highly enough for the faultness workmanship and the high level of performance!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Wenzloff%20tenon%20and%20dovetail/WStenonsaw.jpg

African Blackwood handles ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Wenzloff%20tenon%20and%20dovetail/WStenonsawhandle.jpg

I also have a 14" Nurse, which has been my go-to tenon saw to date.

Based on my experiences with the 16" Wenzloff I could not imagine using a 19" saw! It would simply be overwhelming - too large, cumbersome and difficult to control (for me - and I am just a little under 5'10"). Even 16" takes a little getting used to. Once one does it is a superb performer. Is it better than a 14"? That is difficult to determine simply because the Nurse 14" is a vintage saw, is 11 ppi and while sharp, is not as new-sharp as the Wenzloff. Still, going from the 16" back to the 14" I can feel a loss of control creeping in - with the longer length it is easier to detect when one is not aiming straight.

I gather that Mike is now including the specs for this saw in his line up (from his website, not from elsewhere).

I would say that you will be a winner whether you bought the LN or the Wenzloff. Perhaps it will come down to cost?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Gibson]

I have to say I would go with another one of Mikes saws in a heartbeat.
I have 4 of his saw kits. The large tenon I went with is 16" and 10tpi. It is a big saw. when I do my part it does it's with ease. I need a little more practice with it but I am very happy with it.

All that being said I would not hesitate to go with any of the LN saws. I had a chance to demo all there saws at there tool event and though not a real world test, they are all very nice saws. I have had a LN dovetail saw for quite a while now and love it.

[David Keller NC]

I'm looking for a good tenon saw. I've got the Veritas dovetail and crosscut combo, but I'm now in need of something to cut bigger tenons for my next project. I'm leaning towards the 19" Wenzloff, but I've heard great things about the LN 16" thin plate as well. Anybody have any experience or words of wisdom here? Any other outstanding saws I should be looking at? Any reason to buy/avoid a larger saw vs. a 14"? I've heard plenty of reasons why a larger saw is a good thing, but is there something glaringly obvious that I'm overlooking?

Thanks in advance,

Will

Will - Just my opinion here. You cannot make a mistake buying any of the saws from the small makers mentioned on this thread - every single one of them make incredible quality saws that are light years away from what us poor hand-tool schmucks could get as little as 15 years ago, where the market was populated by extremely bad British versions with incomprehensibly thick saw plates, unacceptably shaped totes, and inappropriate cross-cut teeth.

What I would note is that you should simply buy whichever one of these saws appeals to your aesthetics and pocketbook, because whichever one you buy, you will adapt to the saw's specifics. At this level, it's dang near impossible to fit the various saw's peculularities to your existing preferences, both because of the logistics of trying out all of the brands on the same day/same wood, but also because the differences are subtle.

One final thought - I own a lot of back saws (probably way too many), from Lie-Nielsens through Wenzloffs to many 19th century British antiques when they were still making superb saws. Every one of them performs slightly differently, but not so differently that each one is not a pleasure to use. My one caveat here is that you may wish to eventually own 2 rip-filed tenon saws - one with at least a 4" depth of cut to allow for bigger projects such as workbenches, outdoor furniture, doors, etc..., and one that's in the 12" range for small projects like spice boxes, miniature furniture, small cupboard doors, etc...

[Chris Griggs]

I haven't tried a lot of backsaws but I'll throw in my experience. I have the LN's 15ppi Rip Carcass Saw (which I use as my dovetail saw), and their 14" 13ppi Crosscut Tenon Saw. I had the the rip carcass first, and will say that the 14" crosscut definitely took some getting used too. Even though it's not that big of a saw, it did feel unwieldy at first. I've since gotten used to it and have every intention of getting the 16" tenon saw at some point. I don't think I'd go with an 18" or 19" saw though. I have no doubt that saws that big would perform beautifully, but I think the learning curve on a saw that big would be pretty steep.

As far as brand, I'm sure any of the premium makers mentioned would be great. The Bad Axe saws are especially intriguing, and seem to really be making waves in the Neander realm. Also, (correct me if I'm wrong) I think saws with slotted brass backs (e.g. LN), tend to be a bit heavier for their size than saw with folded backs (e.g. Bad Axe). Not necessarily a good or bad thing, but something to think about.

Finally, one plus for the LNs is that if you haven't yet learned to sharpen you can send them into LN for resharpening for only $15.