The beginning of the end for walnut

[Ben West]

It is indeed a sad day for woodworkers, tree lovers, and conservationist everywhere. Thousand cankers disease has been found in Tennessee.

http://news.tennesseeanytime.org/node/5684

I'm in the natural resources arena, and my forester friends tell me that walnut will likely go the way of the American Chestnut.

[John Keeton]

Not good!!!! My favorite wood. I was not aware of this blight - thanks for posting. Sounds like one should start hoarding?!?!?

[Fred Voorhees]

Jesus, first the Ash and now walnut???? When will it end. To really nice species and we are facing the ultimate end to both of them? I guess I will have to take advantage of any ash and/or walnut opportunities that come my way.

[Ben West]

Unfortunately, there probably are other foreign tree diseases coming.

I personally believe we should enact a small conservation tax on all wood products. Wood is pretty much the only natural resource that does not have a small tax to promote conservation, support research and development, etc. Oil has it, wildlife has it, fisheries has it, rangelands have it. When a disease like these emerge, there is no pot of money out there to support research, and we thus struggle to deal with it.

[Karl Card]

Unfortunately, there probably are other foreign tree diseases coming.

I personally believe we should enact a small conservation tax on all wood products. Wood is pretty much the only natural resource that does not have a small tax to promote conservation, support research and development, etc. Oil has it, wildlife has it, fisheries has it, rangelands have it. When a disease like these emerge, there is no pot of money out there to support research, and we thus struggle to deal with it.


I think that will open up a can of worms.... Since I cant control my feelings I will go look at other threads....

[Ben West]

When I say a small tax, I mean small. Like a penny or two or three per board foot. Still, this small tax would add up to substantial dollars.

America has the greatest wildlife management system in the world. We have safer, more diverse, and more abundant wildlife than anywhere else in the world. That didn't happen by itself, though. Hunters taxed themselves (through license and ammunition sales) to help conserve and manage the resource they love.

I'm simply saying, if we as woodworkers want a reliable supply of some of our favorite woods, something must be done to deal with these problems. Perhaps a tax is not the answer, but we better start thinking and doing.

[eugene thomas]

ya but all tax starts small then keeps growing/.

[Brian Jarnell]

As the man says..........

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Ronald Reagan

[Ben West]

I should have known that mentioning a tax would induce political debate. That was not my intent.

Walnut and ash trees are dying and, one day, will no longer be available in the lumber market. How can we fix that?

[John Piwaron]

someone's gotta pay for that research, that's for sure.

To me, this seems like one of the things government should be good at - fixing a problem that affects everyone - from the people that like the natural beauty of the forest to the people that use the lumber made from it.

but, no research, no fix, no trees. It'll be that simple. How long until every species is affected? no walnut, no ash, no maple, no cherry, etc.

that'd be fun, right?

I'd support some sort of tax/fee on lumber or nursery stock. FWIW, I had a 6" walnut transplanted to my backyard around 20 years ago. a couple of years later it produced a nut that's become the tree that stands in my front yard. That backyard tree has about doubled in size and it's still got a long way to go to be the real giant it could be. I'd hate to lose it. And I know of lots of others in the area. This is in an urban area.

I recall when I was a boy and dutch elm disease came through. There were thousands of trees removed. A great many streets were stripped of any shade at all. Lots of areas simply didn't have trees. Maybe that's poor planning to place all of one species on an area, OTOH, if there had been a way to stop or at least mitigate the problem that may not have had to happen.

[Rod Sheridan]

John, I agree, some sort of user surcharge on wood materials could generate enough money to do something constructive in the fight to save our trees.

Research, regulation and new methods of protecting the trees are what's needed.

A few cents on a piece of wood or a sheet of plywood wouldn't make any difference to us at the time of purchase.

Regards, Rod.

[David Weaver]

I wouldn't support any taxes or fees on lumber because the cost of complying and keeping records, and then tracking and accounting for the use of the money would likely far exceed the amount of research or action actually funded.

It's just another thing for manufacturers to have to do instead of making and selling product.

If anything, it should be a line item in the forest service or the USDA.

[David Woodruff]

Don't forget the Chestnutt. The woods of western NC, KY, TN,et al, are still occupied by 4 ft beasts laying on the ground from the 1930s. The wood takes forever to decay and the wormy chunks make for beautiful turning.

[David Woodruff]

Steve says it very well, "you don't know what you got till its gone"

[Nick Laeder]

Why not start a grassroots organization to study these diseases?

Duck hunters got upset that the government wasn't doing enough, and they formed Ducks Unlimited.

Trout fishermen/women got upset that the government wasn't doing enough, and they formed Trout Unlimited and based their organization on DU.

Both of these organizations are very strong and focus on conservation. True conservation that continues to support hunting and fishing because they understand that nobody loves trout more than a fisherman and nobody loves ducks more than a duck hunter.

I think you could apply the same principles to our native timber.

[ray hampton]

walnuts are a food source for squirrels, will they die out too ? then what tree will be the next one ?
will this land become a desert ?

[Matt Radtke]

I'm curious if walnut migh survive regionally? The reports I've read about this are from the west and around TN. Might states further to the North, with our colder winters, kill or at least slow offending beatle? Possibly even the fungus itself?

[Doug Donnell]

Pathogens such as this can certainly be catastrophic, but they can also die off spontaneously themselves, or run their course causing various degrees of damage. If the situation does become dire, I am not certain a government solution is the way to address it.

Simple capitalism and economics may not solve all problems, but they do solve most, and usually in the most efficient manner.

One of the most important species of early America was the American chestnut. The chestnut blight destroyed the species (there are actually still American chestnuts, they just reach a certain size and the blight hits them). However, today we are very close to achieving genetic solutions that may well bring about the return of the species.

All without a "wood tax."

If there is a societal demand for walnut (I think there will be), it will manafest itself as an economic incentive to support research into a solution. Either as private investment, corporate grants, or even taxpayer funded research (funded from the ample taxes we already pay, and the substantial increases that are coming).

I respect the desire to contribute a small tax to help fund a solution, but as has been said before, I do not believe it would stay small, nor do I believe it will be administered efficiently.

These things can take years to have a meaningful effect. Let's hope the chestnut comes back about the time the walnut gets scarce!

Doug

[Mike Cruz]

I don't want to scare anyone, but there have been trees dieing (sp? :confused:) on my property for YEARS! Let's see...there have been Poplars, Cherry, Maple, Walnut, Ash, Oak, and Locust. As a matter of fact, enough Oak and Locust has died each year to fuel my wood stove!

Ok, ok, I'm being snitty. I just hate it when folks jump the gun. Maybe these authorites aren't jumping the gun. Maybe they are noticing this blight right at its birth. But trees die all the time. Sometimes a certain kind of tree in a certain area. Are we SURE the American Walnut is going the way of the American Chestnut? Or is this just speculation?

Listen, I appreciate the heads up. I really do. But, things like this can drive the price of specific woods ski rocketing before there is actual cause. Anyone want some ash? I've got acres of it. Are they dropping like flies? Nope. Are there some dead ones? Yup. Any more than the Oaks, Locust, Cherry, Maple, or Poplars? Nope.

Again, thanks for making us aware, but please everyone, let's not go crazy running in circles screaming about the ski falling...

[Ben West]

Doug,

I agree, the American Chestnut and American Elm are success stories. Once essentially eradicated because of disease, there are now resistant varieties of American Elm (planted 2 in my yard this year), and American Chestnut are coming.

BUT, it has been several decades since these trees have been eliminated to today, when resistant varieties are beginning to be planted. It will be another 50+ years before they are harvested for lumber. That's a long time to be without walnut or ash lumber.

I do have hope, though, that our experiences with Elm and Chestnut will help us develop resistant Ash and Walnut more quickly. Genetic breeding and selection have certainly progressed a long, long way in the past 10 years.

These disease outbreaks have convinced me that I, as a woodworker, need to contribute more to the conservation of the natural resource that I love. Over time, I hope we will do that as a woodworking community.

[Doug Donnell]

Ben, I agree with you completely. Should there be an irradication level pathogen you are correct in that it could be decades or even generations before successful replacement genetic stock is available for harvest. You do hit on the fact that we have made dramatic progress on the genetic front that would significantly shorten the recovery process, but nothing will be quick.

As a forester and a timberland investment manager I tend to have a very long term outlook on timber management, so sometimes I speak a bit casually about timber rotations and multi generational time frames. A fault of the profession, sorry about that!

It has also been suggested that we are being premature in our worry, and I fully agree with that as well. The forestry profession has become much more alert to the seriousness of events like these, and I think it is encouraging that proactive isolation strategies are being employed in this case. I think that there is a good chance this particular pathogen may get "headed off at the pass." And if not, I think our children or at least our grandchildren will still get a chance to work with recently dried walnut in their projects.

I think it is probably just as likely that this particular wake-up event may trigger increased interest (ie, funding) in genetic research which could actually make walnut and other cabinet grade species easier to propagate and grow on a more plantation management scale, which ultimately could actually lower prices for these premium species.

At least that has been a dream of this forester/wood butcher (not yet qualified to claim the title of wood worker...).

Everyone take a deep breath. Twenty years ago they said we were entering a new ice age. Today they say we are causing global warming. The only certainty is tomorrow someone will discover some crisis to keep us entertained and worried.

Doug out...

[John Piwaron]

It's just another thing for manufacturers to have to do instead of making and selling product.

If anything, it should be a line item in the forest service or the USDA.

There you have it - another excellent funding mechanism to pay for the necessary research.

[C Scott McDonald]

People say it is premature to worry but when you see entire mountian sides of dead Pine trees here in Colorado it is hard too.

I understand it is nature renewing itself but it is hard to watch. I guess we have made the problem worse with the Pine trees as we put out forrest fires etc.

Still sad.

[Dusty Fuller]

http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/bspm/extension%20and%20outreach/Questions%20and%20Answers%20Revision%2011_9_09.doc

This was sent to me at work from our region office. Seems like the whole thing has the potential to get ugly. Good information for identifying problem areas. We have a small number of black walnuts on the park where I work, and I can start keeping an eye on them a little.

As far as my home state goes, our Department of Natural Resources and Forestry Commission have been doing PR work with a "don't move firewood" campaign, but I don't know how many folks follow its recommendations. Its hard (most of the time) to see the immediate effect of most infestations, and I think most of the general public doesn't realize that they could cause the expansion of a particular bug just by taking a full-round log or load of firewood out of even their own county. I know I didn't realize any of that until recently, but I've tried to be conscious of moving any wood. When I cut a tree at my parents' house, I remove the bark and process it as much as possible before bringing it home (a distance of a hundred miles or so). Not that sweetgum carries many pests (that I know of).

Anyway, I wanted to post the link in case anyone was looking for information.

DF

[Cody Colston]

Unfortunately, there probably are other foreign tree diseases coming.

TCD is not a foreign "introduced" disease, it is native to the United States. The Walnut Twig Beetle and the fungus (Geosmithia) it spreads has been killing Black Walnut trees in California and the West for several years now. The discovery of the beetle and fungus in an urban area of Tennessee is the first identified occurence in Eastern Black Walnuts. There are probably many other occurrences that haven't been positively identified yet. The jury is still out on whether it affects English Walnuts grown from Black walnut root stock or even how the disease will act in the East. Unfortunately, by the time all of that is known and a possible eradication of the disease (if one even exists) is developed, the disease may have already decimated Walnut trees.

BTW, yet ANOTHER tax is not the solution, either. Anyone who feels like donating for research, the government accepts cash, checks and money orders. ;)

[Rich Novak]

Thanks for posting this, I didn't know walnut was endangered.

[Ben West]

TCD is not a foreign "introduced" disease, it is native to the United States. ;)

Yes, it is native to the western US, but it was most likely "introduced" to the eastern US by firewood or other wood products. It has not been known to naturally occur in eastern woodlands. So, from an ecological standpoint, it may very well function like an introduced disease in the east -- that is, it could thrive in this new environment with no natural defenses. Only time will tell.

Perhaps it is too early to declare this a disaster. BUT, we have a very poor track record in containing introduced pests and diseases. Maybe we'll have more success with thousand cankers, but I doubt it. Our best hope, long term, is probably the development of resistant varieties.

[scott vroom]

If all that was left was pine and douglas fir, woodworkers would still make cool stuff with no less pleasure.

[Mark Maleski]

If all that was left was pine and douglas fir, woodworkers would still make cool stuff with no less pleasure.
I'm all for looking on the bright side, but this statement is simply untrue. We certainly couldn't produce reproduction pieces (my primary interest) were this the case!

[scott vroom]

I'm all for looking on the bright side, but this statement is simply untrue. We certainly couldn't produce reproduction pieces (my primary interest) were this the case!

Yes, you could produce reproduction pieces....with a different wood species. When God gives you lemons you make lemonade. I guess what I'm arguing is that if certain wood species disappear, woodworking will survive and thrive with whatever is available. Let's keep it positive!:)