Turns out I do have a local Festool dealer... WALMART!

[Scott Stafford]

Living in the wilds of Montana definitely has its benefits; but there are also detriments to temper those benefits a bit. For instance I have no local dealer of high quality tools, so I must turn to the internet.

I did an internet search for the Festool Kapex sliding miter saw, entered my zip code, and just like magic it directed me to my nearest dealer... WALMART!

Sure enough, if you go to Walmart’s website and enter the Festool model you’re looking for, up it pops.

Now they don't display the products in their stores but they will have it promptly delivered to your local store for your pickup or to your front porch.

My heart really goes out to the loyal dealers who have worked so hard to bring Festool to our attention, to make it a recognized name through countless hours of teaching and demonstrating... only to be put into competition with Walmart.

Not sure I want that Kapex as much as I originally did.


Scott in Montana

[Mike Goetzke]

What next - Big Lots?

[Brendan Davis]

What next - Big Lots?
I wouldnt mind them going to the dollar store... :)

[Don Jarvie]

Is there any price difference?

Some companies set a minimum sale price. I notice that when Rockler has a 20% off sale they exclude certain items so I would imagine that if the discount is applied it would go below the min price.

[Mike Cruz]

I half kinda have to wonder if Walmart's Festools are like HD's John Deere's and Stihl's. I bought a Stihl weed whacker some 10+ years ago from HD because of the name (Stihl, not HD). Recently when the pull string thingy needed to be replaced, my local Stihl dealer informed me that my Stihl is a model that was made by Ryobi...FOR Stihl FOR Home Depot. The way they put the thing together, you have to take the whole thing apart to get to the pull string thingy. He offered to fix it, sure, but told me how many hours of labor would be involved. I could buy a new one for just a little more than fixing the old one.

Anyone think that these Festools might fall the same way?

[Steven Hsieh]

Looks like its sold by tool king through Walmart.

[Cliff Holmes]

Same stuff, same prices

Come on, guys, Walmart is not the Great Satan.

[Dave Houseal]

I half kinda have to wonder if Walmart's Festools are like HD's John Deere's and Stihl's. I bought a Stihl weed whacker some 10+ years ago from HD because of the name (Stihl, not HD). Recently when the pull string thingy needed to be replaced, my local Stihl dealer informed me that my Stihl is a model that was made by Ryobi...FOR Stihl FOR Home Depot. The way they put the thing together, you have to take the whole thing apart to get to the pull string thingy. He offered to fix it, sure, but told me how many hours of labor would be involved. I could buy a new one for just a little more than fixing the old one.

Anyone think that these Festools might fall the same way?

Really hard to say, cause I never would have believed that Stihl or Deere would try to wreck their hard earned reputations like they did either. :confused:

[Steven Hsieh]

http://www.walmart.com/cservice/contextual_help_popup.gsp?modId=1055745

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

You'll notice that they have no flexibility with pricing.

[Cliff Holmes]

http://www.walmart.com/cservice/contextual_help_popup.gsp?modId=1055745

Interesting. So it's not Walmart per se, but Festool themselves selling on Walmart's site? I can't imagine they'd allow a normal dealer to do this.

[Craig D Peltier]

For $1500 Festool sends a little man to make all your cuts for you too.

[Will Overton]

You can always buy it from Amazon if it makes you feel better. :rolleyes:

http://www.amazon.com/Festool-KS-120-Sliding-Compound/dp/B002MYMVWM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1281039276&sr=8-1

[Brandon Weiss]

For $1500 Festool sends a little man to make all your cuts for you too.

Is about the ONLY thing that would ever convince me to go out and buy a Festool anything. I'm sure they are top of the line, but they carry a ridiculous price tag. I can't wait until Festool makes a Table Saw. $20,000? Hahahahaha

[Cliff Holmes]

Here come the Festool haters ...

I guess I shouldn't be too harsh, I made all the same criticisms. Until I actually used them, I just couldn't comprehend how they could be worth the money.

[Jon van der Linden]

Is about the ONLY thing that would ever convince me to go out and buy a Festool anything. I'm sure they are top of the line, but they carry a ridiculous price tag. I can't wait until Festool makes a Table Saw. $20,000? Hahahahaha

There are table saws that are much more than that, of course they only use sliding table saws in Germany. $20k is the low end for Martin for example, and go up to around $45k + options.

[John Keeton]

Same stuff, same prices

Come on, guys, Walmart is not the Great Satan.Satan is certainly too harsh, but from an individual that has owned a small business, let's just say they have changed the face of America, and not all of that change was good!

[Brendan Davis]

There are table saws that are much more than that, of course they only use sliding table saws in Germany. $20k is the low end for Martin for example, and go up to around $45k + options.

For a 20k saw, it better cut my wood and pour my drinks... yikes... for in excess of 45k, I could get a nice car...lol

[Don Alexander]

something i don't understand is why making the observation that festool is rather pricey is usually interpreted as "hating" festool

festool makes great stuff and they get top dollar for it thats a fact not a criticism or "hating"

some folks can afford festool and enjoy quality tools some folks can't afford festool and have to shop around for quality tools they can afford

nothing at all wrong with either

i'm going to go ahead and say it " festool is very pricey" now that i have all that "hate" out of my system the world can continue to rotate on its axis or some such thing :D

[Will Overton]

something i don't understand is why making the observation that festool is rather pricey is usually interpreted as "hating" festool

festool makes great stuff and they get top dollar for it thats a fact not a criticism or "hating"

some folks can afford festool and enjoy quality tools some folks can't afford festool and have to shop around for quality tools they can afford

nothing at all wrong with either

I'm going to go ahead and say it " festool is very pricey" now that i have all that "hate" out of my system the world can continue to rotate on its axis or some such thing :D

Well put Don. I have a few of these pricey tools, TS55 saw, Domino and CT22. They all work well and filled a need/want in my shop. Unlike some, I haven't gotten drunk on the green KoolAid. I recently picked up the DeWalt cordless track saw, with 59" track for < $250 after rebate. If I had this first, I never would have gotten the green, tailed version.

So , I agree that Festool stuff is very pricey, but I neither hate nor love them ... but they do the job.

[Cliff Holmes]

something i don't understand is why making the observation that festool is rather pricey is usually interpreted as "hating" festool

I have no problem with "rather pricey" but "ridiculous" coming from someone who obviously doesn't own any Festools is "rather silly". Yes, they're "rather pricey" but they're also "rather awesome".

As I said, I know a little about this. I was in their shoes (and attitude) until about a year ago.

[Karl Card]

Just have to remember that if it is at wal mart it MAY not be the same quality. Wal mart is powerful enough to sell major brands but have the company change the quality model numbers etc in order to make good m oney off of it. Not saying this is what is happening with festool but wal mart has done it before and you I just dont trust a company who buys life insurance for its older employees and when the employee dies wal mart gets the money....

[Will Overton]

Karl,
These are not being sold by Walmart, just through Walmart's MarketPlace.

"Sold and Shipped by:
ToolKing.com"

They do not even show a 'Ship to Store' option.

[Harold Burrell]

I don't hate Festool stuff.

I just hate everyone that owns them.

(Not really. I just wanted to stir up a little trouble before I went to bed.) ;)

[Eiji Fuller]

Satan is certainly too harsh, but from an individual that has owned a small business, let's just say they have changed the face of America, and not all of that change was good!

WAKE UP

It wasnt Walmart that changed America. It was the "free" trade policies of global economics that changed America and sent all of our manufacturing overseas. Walmart just took advantage of that.

[tim rowledge]

WAKE UP

It wasnt Walmart that changed America. It was the "free" trade policies of global economics that changed America and sent all of our manufacturing overseas. Walmart just took advantage of that.

If you look a little more closely you'll notice that companies such as Walmart were in the forefront of pushing, supporting and demanding said free trade policies. These ideas don't just spring up on their own y'know. Senators have to be bought etc. and that takes corporate money.

[Dave Lehnert]

I half kinda have to wonder if Walmart's Festools are like HD's John Deere's and Stihl's. I bought a Stihl weed whacker some 10+ years ago from HD because of the name (Stihl, not HD). Recently when the pull string thingy needed to be replaced, my local Stihl dealer informed me that my Stihl is a model that was made by Ryobi...FOR Stihl FOR Home Depot. The way they put the thing together, you have to take the whole thing apart to get to the pull string thingy. He offered to fix it, sure, but told me how many hours of labor would be involved. I could buy a new one for just a little more than fixing the old one.

Anyone think that these Festools might fall the same way?


Are you sure it was a Stihl and not an Echo trimmer? I have been in the retail garden bizz for many years and never seen a Stihl sold at a big box.
http://www.stihlusa.com/learnwhy/

Homelite trimmer sold at HD are made by Ryobi,
A John Deere mower sold at HD is the same sold at dealers BUT.... only dealers offer the better built models.
A Toro riding mower sold at HD is made by MTD.

[Neal Clayton]

WAKE UP

It wasnt Walmart that changed America. It was the "free" trade policies of global economics that changed America and sent all of our manufacturing overseas. Walmart just took advantage of that.

no, it was pretty much walmart.

my dad built walmart #27 in the mid 70s. back then it was a struggle to get them financed, because their credit was so bad. sam was famous for not paying rent on time, not paying for product on time, not paying utilities on time, etc.

there were no chinese hammers and tape measures in US stores back then. absent cheap products, they just didn't pay their bills until they were done squeezing the local stores for a few months.

walmart was key to the encouragement of 'suburban sprawl'. downtown department stores were in trouble, and walmart didn't have stores downtown, they wouldn't pay that much for a good location. they wanted 'cow pasture' stores in sam's words. the whole idea was to get people away from where they were, and closer to walmart, so that walmart became the center of small town commerce rather than the corner of main and main streets downtown.

and when you have suburban sprawl wasting resources-a-plenty simultaneously in every city in the US, you have to source materials somewhere else to keep the expansion going because there's not enough locally or even nationally.

[Brian Jarnell]

WAKE UP

It wasnt Walmart that changed America. It was the "free" trade policies of global economics that changed America and sent all of our manufacturing overseas. Walmart just took advantage of that.
And if not free trade,then what?

[Rick Fisher]

I am surprised that Festool went for that .. It sorta cheapens the brand to me ..

[Harlan Coverdale]

I just dont trust a company who buys life insurance for its older employees and when the employee dies wal mart gets the money....

Actually, it's all not that uncommon at other corporations AFAIK. I've seen it done elsewhere, although I believe all full-time employees were insured. If not everyone, at least the mid and upper level execs were. Not saying it's good or bad, but it might be more prevalent than you think. ;)

[Matt Meiser]

walmart was key to the encouragement of 'suburban sprawl'.

I don't know about that. We had suburban sprawl long before Walmart showed up around here. In fact in Toledo they tore down old suburban sprawl to put up a new Walmart. Lots of other retailers had the same model, many failed (Woolco, Rinks, Hills, and Ames are a few names from around here that I remember and there were many more I don't) and some like Walmart succeeded in some sense or another (Kmart, Meijer, Target are a few around here.)

[Stephen Cherry]

I don't mind that walmart sells any particular product.

I do mind that products show up at exactly the same price at every retailer.

[Phil Thien]

I don't know about that. We had suburban sprawl long before Walmart showed up around here. In fact in Toledo they tore down old suburban sprawl to put up a new Walmart. Lots of other retailers had the same model, many failed (Woolco, Rinks, Hills, and Ames are a few names from around here that I remember and there were many more I don't) and some like Walmart succeeded in some sense or another (Kmart, Meijer, Target are a few around here.)

Right.

Walton's model was to go after underserved areas. By his tenth store he was getting pretty good at picking locations that would serve two to three communities and generate the kind of sales a larger store required. Locations good enough to serve ONE larger department store, not big enough for TWO. So once he was there, he knew he was blocking others.

They bought cheap real estate and sold product "inexpensively" (cheaper than the established hardware/grocery/etc. stores) in these otherwise underserved (remote) areas. He purchased other real estate surrounding his intersections to block the chances of others to develop it.

Upon locking rural areas up, they leveraged themselves to move into larger metropolitan areas.

His model was opposite that of most others discount department stores that started in larger areas (suburbs of large cities) where real estate and labor were considerably more expensive, and where there was likely competition.

I'd love to credit Walton w/ being a genius, but there is an awful lot of luck involved in the Walmart story. He started Walmart where he lived and he lived in small town Arkansas. I seriously doubt he would have had much success if he lived in Chicago, for example, and tried starting Walmart there.

In fact, as the size of the empire grew, so grew the competition and the need to find bigger and better bargains to draw customers.

And that is when Walmart became so aggressive about bringing in cheaper Chinese goods. They did everything possible politically to keep those avenues expanding.

In terms of the original thread: (1) If I were Festool, I'd get my products off any site affiliated with Walmart. It can't possibly help your image.

(2) Festool may be overpriced. And I don't have any Festool gear. But the world is long on cheap tools that don't work and short on [perhaps] overpriced quality tools. We need more Festools, not fewer.

Seriously, how many times do we lament the loss of quality USA tools that would last. When confronted with something close (albeit made in Germany), we complain the price is too high? Something is wrong here...

[Paul Johnstone]

And if not free trade,then what?

I think "free trade" needs to be in quotes.

We've got the Chineese subsidizing their companies and manipulating the currency exchange to get coorporations to move all our jobs overseas.. Not to mention the lack of safety, labor, and environmental standards overseas. Cooporations have gotten a form of slavery overseas.. but as long as the cheap junk keeps flowing into the USA, not many people seem to mind, even if a few kids get lead poisioning as a result..

[James Arvanetakis]

WAKE UP

It wasnt Walmart that changed America. It was the "free" trade policies of global economics that changed America and sent all of our manufacturing overseas. Walmart just took advantage of that.

+1 and another thing:

Look at Germany and ask yourselves how is it they have maintained themselves to be an export powerhouse..with a still growing economy...while the US has not?

Could it be the quality of their leaders?

Walmart no doubt influenced current domestic trade policies...but with the approval of all those congress-critters who helped to sell America out. Walmart is an easy target...but if you really want to point your finger somewehere point it at DC...when there were tough decisions to be made....they didn't make them. :mad:

[Rod Sheridan]

Phil, I think you've hit the crux of the issue.

We can no longer differentiate between cheap and frugal.

We buy cheap (inferior) goods because we are obsessed with price, not value.

Frugal meant getting value for your money, which often was achieved by purchasing a higher cost, higher quality item that would have a longer service life.

I don't mind paying for quality, I can't afford cheap.

Regards, Rod.

[John Coloccia]

Seriously, how many times do we lament the loss of quality USA tools that would last. When confronted with something close (albeit made in Germany), we complain the price is too high? Something is wrong here...

Ja genau, richtig.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Here come the Festool haters ...

I guess I shouldn't be too harsh, I made all the same criticisms. Until I actually used them, I just couldn't comprehend how they could be worth the money.

I don't hate Festertool. I think they have fine equipment.
I don't like the attitude of the festertool people whom I've met - the Factory reps from Europe - who act walk and talk like they think they are better than me and every one else in the USA.
That, and that alone, soured me to the brand.

[Will Overton]

walmart was key to the encouragement of 'suburban sprawl'. downtown department stores were in trouble, and walmart didn't have stores downtown, they wouldn't pay that much for a good location.


I think you have it backwards. Suburban sprawl encouraged Walmart. That, and all the folks who think that paying the lowest price is the most important thing in the world.;)

[Dave Lehnert]

I don't know about that. We had suburban sprawl long before Walmart showed up around here. In fact in Toledo they tore down old suburban sprawl to put up a new Walmart. Lots of other retailers had the same model, many failed (Woolco, Rinks, Hills, and Ames are a few names from around here that I remember and there were many more I don't) and some like Walmart succeeded in some sense or another (Kmart, Meijer, Target are a few around here.)

Big Lots was started by the owner of Rinks.

[Dan Karachio]

I am surprised that Festool went for that .. It sorta cheapens the brand to me ..

I agree. Kind of like a Yugo dealer that sells Mercedes. I suppose Festool is up to playing hardball with Walmart on pricing. The second they give Walmart a deal (and Walmart excels at this) long standing dealers would throw a fit and rightly so.

FYI, another thing that made Walmart possible was IBM. They developed much of the inventory control systems that allow Walmart to monitor, measure and adjust to almost any issue of sales, demand and pricing imaginable.

[John Nesmith]

http://www.walmart.com/cservice/contextual_help_popup.gsp?modId=1055745

That's the Amazon model. Walmart obviously wants to go head-to-head with them on internet retailing.