A quieter power source for power sanding?

[Neil Strong]

I'm trying to find a quieter power source for sanding than my current arrangement which is a flexible shaft running off a power drill. The advantage of that arrangement is less noise next to my ear and less weight in my hand during long sanding sessions. The other advantages of the drill is that you can readily change the direction of rotation and they are cheap....:)

However, I'd like a power source that is much quieter, e.g. something closer to the level of noise from an electric motor.

Tried an inertia sander but didn't love that.

Does anyone have any experience using the Kirjes (http://www.plano.se/GB/Kirjes/KirjesMotorGB.html) system (or something similar) used in this way. I've seen one running and they are much quieter than a drill, operate at my prefered speed of about 3000rpm and have good power. They also have a left hand chuck for reverse sanding. But, they are expensive....:(

A few people have used a drill press to drive a flexible shaft, which is a good solution, but they don't come with a ready method of reverse rotation.

I would appreciate any comments or ideas before I take the plunge.

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[Paul Singer]

Hate to be a wise A$$ but I use ear plugs or muffs during noisy operations. I have partial hearing loss and it seems like any loud noise for extended periods causes me discomfort so I use my ear protection alot.

[John Hart]

Here's an idea
157526

You'll need an assistant. But then, sanding can be a lonely business...it's nice to have company once in a while.

Glad I could help:)

[Neil Strong]

Hate to be a wise A$$ but I use ear plugs or muffs during noisy operations. I have partial hearing loss and it seems like any loud noise for extended periods causes me discomfort so I use my ear protection alot.

Yeah, Paul, so do I... buy my ear plugs in buckets of 500. Didn't mention that I also need to reduce the noise for the sake of my neighbours when I move my workshop to where we live, which is in a beautifully quiet valley (other than the wildlife).


Here's an idea
157526

You'll need an assistant. But then, sanding can be a lonely business...it's nice to have company once in a while.

Glad I could help:)

..... :D

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[Prashun Patel]

I've never used one, but what about air sanders? I have no idea if they'd be quieter or not.

[John Altberg]

I use a flexible shaft and drive it with a small electric motor. Downside to your requirements, though, it is not variable speed ( I use 1725 RPM, but you could get a 3550) and it is not reversible. The motor is reversible with a switch (courtesy of Grainger), but my flexible shaft only runs in one direction otherwise it comes unwound. Be curious to know if you have a flex shaft that is bi-directional.

Electric motors can be found cheaply and readily on craigslist.

[Fred Perreault]

Neil........ sharp tools and a cleaner surface can reduce some of the noise, and then ear plugs can help those that are not already near deaf.
All those that are hard of hearing, raise one hand. Those that are very hard of hearing, please raise two hands

[John Hart]

I wish I could help you out with a motor Neil..like John Altberg is suggesting. I have a bunch of them. But shipping to Australia probably isn't worth it.

[Neil Strong]

I've never used one, but what about air sanders? I have no idea if they'd be quieter or not.

Good thought Prashun, but you need a very large compressor running constantly to keep a rotary sander going; and the compressor thumping away all the time creates more noise than a drill...:)


I use a flexible shaft and drive it with a small electric motor. Downside to your requirements, though, it is not variable speed ( I use 1725 RPM, but you could get a 3550) and it is not reversible. The motor is reversible with a switch (courtesy of Grainger), but my flexible shaft only runs in one direction otherwise it comes unwound. Be curious to know if you have a flex shaft that is bi-directional.


That's exactly the system I have in mind, John. How did you connect your flexible shaft to the motor shaft?

On fixing the reverse direction problem, I simply super glued the threaded section on the chuck shaft and the inner flexible drive shaft together, taking care not to allow the SG to run into either the chuck workings or down the inner shaft... :eek: Rotating the shaft while the SG set ensured that it didn't bind. Also had to thoroughly clean the areas to be glued of any oil before gluing... with cotton buds and solvents.

The modified shafts have all stood up to a fair amount of use with up to 3" sanding pads.


I wish I could help you out with a motor Neil..like John Altberg is suggesting. I have a bunch of them. But shipping to Australia probably isn't worth it.

Thanks for the kind thought John. Motors I can get. Getting the right system going is my real challenge.

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[John Altberg]

Neil,

I used a work arbor from Woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=915 (they come in 5/8" and 1/2") and a keyless chuck from Harbor Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-keyless-chuck-2820.html. Both were very inexpesnive and work quite well.

I will have to look at my flex shaft to see if I can do the SG modification that you described. It would really be nice to be able to sand in reverse sometimes.

[Neil Strong]

I used a work arbor from Woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=915 (they come in 5/8" and 1/2")

Thanks John, that is the missing element that I need to make up my own version of the Kirjes. Now all I have to do is find a suitable reversible motor with 1/2" or 5/8" shaft and I'm in business. That shouldn't be a drama.

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[Walt Nicholson]

Check out Foredom www.foredom.net (http://www.foredom.net) I have an older one that is nice and quiet, has foot operated speed control and lots of available accessories. No affiliation, just a good product for many years.

[Neil Strong]

Check out Foredom www.foredom.net (http://www.foredom.net) I have an older one that is nice and quiet, has foot operated speed control and lots of available accessories. No affiliation, just a good product for many years.

Good suggestion Walt. I did look a the Foredom range. Their drive units have the required power, but unfortunately the range of hand pieces don't go up to the mandrel size (3/8") on my Tim Skilton sanding pads which I like to use. So I had to keep looking for something with a chuck that went up to 3/8"/10mm.

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[Neil Strong]

Neil,

I used a work arbor from Woodcraft http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=915 (they come in 5/8" and 1/2")

Ordered one of those last night and it's on its way today. Went with the 1/2" when I found my home made buffing machine has the ideal motor for the job (I can always run the felt wheels in a Jacobs chuck on the lathe or pedestal drill) AND can be wired to switch between forward and reverse.

Thanks to John, I think I'm heading for a good and economical solution.

Outstanding item is a suitable forward/off/reverse switch, which hopefully won't be too difficult top come by.

I'll post photos when I've put it all together.

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[John Altberg]

Glad that it is coming together for you, Neil. This set-up is quiet and more comfortable to use, in my opinion, than a drill.

The link in your first post shows a flex shaft. Is that the one that you use and have modified?

Regards,

John

[Jeff Nicol]

I think a guy could find an old battery drill and hook it to a power source and not worry about the batteries. They already have forward and reverse so that is handled. The configuration is up to you then at how you want to connect the drill to your sanding disc. Either with the flex shaft or by just using the drill itself.

I see old drills with bad batteries or a bad charger at yard sales all the time for $10 -$30 I buy them when they are cheap enough for the motors, chucks etc. One never knows when they will need a nice DC motor for a project!

Good luck,

Jeff

[Neil Strong]

I think a guy could find an old battery drill and hook it to a power source ....

Thanks Jeff, another good suggestion.

I'm already using an electric hand drill as my power source and I find that is far too noisy. Battery drills might be quieter, but most 18V models still have a working noise levels of about 80-85 dB(A). I reckon the gears are the main source of their noise.

So I'm looking to use a direct drive brushless motor. My little 1/4HP motor that I'm now thinking of using runs so quietly that there is a risk of not noticing that it's on and leaving it running. I have a dB meter, so I might turn everything else off and get a reading of just how quiet it is.

However, Jeff, your suggestion would work for someone who is not fussed about noise levels and is looking for an economical solution.

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[Neil Strong]

The link in your first post shows a flex shaft. Is that the one that you use and have modified?



That's the Kirjes flex shaft, John, which is a well constructed bit of gear but is not recommended for reverse operation... probably something to do with how the inner cable is wound.

I've just been using various economy shafts that I've bought off eBay, the ones with a 3/8" chuck to fit the mandrels on my 2" and 3" sanding pads. They have all worked so far.

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[Tom Hamilton]

This is very interesting as I too dislike the noise from the right angle drill. I wear hearing protection since I'm already on hearing aids dialed up to the max so can't tolerate any more hearing loss.

A flex shaft, small motor is a great idea.

So, John, or others, which flexshaft do you use? The Kirjes or are there others? While I'm at it, would you please post some pics of how you mount your motor? It is on the ways, on a board on the ways or the adjacent wall?

Thanks, Tom, in Douglasville GA, thinking quiet sanding would be nice.

[John Altberg]

So, John, or others, which flexshaft do you use? The Kirjes or are there others? While I'm at it, would you please post some pics of how you mount your motor? It is on the ways, on a board on the ways or the adjacent wall?

Thanks, Tom, in Douglasville GA, thinking quiet sanding would be nice.

Tom

I use a flexshaft that looks exactly like the Kirjes in Neil's posting. I bought it from Garret Wade. http://www.garrettwade.com/flex-shaft-with-chuck/p/35N06.01/

I plan to make a rolling stand for my motor, eventually. For now I simply jamb it between the banjo and the tailstock. If it is not secured somehow, the torque of the motor makes it wander!

[Neil Strong]

So, John, or others, which flexshaft do you use? The Kirjes or are there others? While I'm at it, would you please post some pics of how you mount your motor? It is on the ways, on a board on the ways or the adjacent wall?



On the shafts, I've been using el cheapo ones off fleaBay. So far I've found that quality doesn't correlate closely with the price. The Kirjes model is a nice bit of gear and would be my preferred one if not for their warning about running in reverse, which I do. The Garret Wade model that John has linked to comes with the same warning ...and the cheap ones I'm buying might also carry the same warning if they were up to the same level of customer service as Kirjes...:D. So far I've not had any problems with the internal cable 'undoing itself' on the ones I've been using while running in reverse. Perhaps the better quality cables that might last much longer with just clockwise use may be more susceptible to the problem.

If you don't intend running your sander in reverse then this is not an issue.

I've also noticed that the cables with smaller chuck capacity than 3/8" are more common and therefore cheaper.

On the motor setup, I'm not far enough along to be able to show you how I'll do that. I also do most of my turning outboard, so my solution may be different to what might suit you, Tom. What I've found works best for me so far while using an electric drill as my power source (ie until I can get something quieter) is to mount the drill vertically and locate it about 12" below centre. I have it attached to a stool which I can move about to give better access to the piece I'm working on and to reduce any tight curves in the cable that would put undue stress on it.

This setup here (http://www.ttit.id.au/gadgets/Power%20sander.JPG) from another forum is the idea (thanks Vern) that originally got me going down this pathway. It might give you a few ideas if you are going to be working mainly inboard.

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[Harlan Coverdale]

Good thought Prashun, but you need a very large compressor running constantly to keep a rotary sander going; and the compressor thumping away all the time creates more noise than a drill...:)
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And the compressor is the quiet part of the equation. The air sander is even louder than the compressor, plus it's right in front of you.

Sounds like you're on your way to a good solution.

[Neil Strong]

Outstanding item is a suitable forward/off/reverse switch, which hopefully won't be too difficult to come by.



Well as luck would have it, today I found a reverse switch in some old (unused) 3 phase gear I had collected together for another project over 25 years ago. The old gray matter started to stir when I started to look on the net to buy one. The scary prices for a new one might have helped to jog the memory....:D

Anyway, after a fair bit of fluffing around (the old gray matter again) I finally got the rotary switch (a Moeller) reconfigured ready to connect to the motor. I'll post a better photo (only had my mob camera today) when I have the remaining bits together.

157854

Now all I need to put it all together is the work arbor that is currently on its way across the pond from Woodcraft.

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[Tom Hamilton]

Greetings Fellow Turners: After sorting out the details of this thread I ordered a flex drive from Garrett Wade as mentioned up thread.

It arrived today and I began trying to figure out how to attach it to my little 1/2 hp motor.

158620

It didn't take long to realize I would need a left hand threaded chuck...which was not in the inventory.

However, as I looked around the shop what did I spy but an unused drill press. (Notice it is not classified as un-needed, just unused). It's the little black one not the "Red Head."

158621

After putting it on a mobile base and rolling it closer to the lathe I'm a convert to flex drive sanding.

158622

Much quieter, not as heavy as the right angle drill and easy on the hand, arms and ears. Still have the dust collector noise but I can hear the sanding disk on the wood for the first time. I can adjust the drill speed and the lathe speed.

The flex drive carries the admonition to only use clockwise rotation. So the question: is that from the user view, ie holding the tool and seeing the back of the sanding disk or from the front, grit side, of the abrasive. I'm clockwise from the user view and so far it works.

Once again thanks to the Creekers for sharing a great idea.

Best regards, Tom, in Georgia, happily sanding with a flex drive.

[Neil Strong]

The flex drive carries the admonition to only use clockwise rotation. So the question: is that from the user view, ie holding the tool and seeing the back of the sanding disk or from the front, grit side, of the abrasive. I'm clockwise from the user view and so far it works.



That's right, Tom, clockwise from the user end view.

Can't your little 1/2HP motor be reversed?

Nice solution there with the drill press.

I did consider this option myself. Not that I had a spare drill press, but smaller bench top models can be purchased quite cheaply. The only snag for me was the reverse rotation. I expected it would have taken a fair bit of effort to find a drill press model that allowed for electrical reverse switching so decided to let that idea go.

Anyway , glad you found a solution that works for you, Tom.

BTW, you can build acoustic muffling into your dust extraction system. eg (http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/Muffler.cfm)

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[Tom Hamilton]

Neil,

"Can't your little 1/2HP motor be reversed?"

Yes I'm sure it can, but I really like having the wire wheel handy I'd rather not give up the little motor.

"...you can build acoustic muffling into your dust extraction system. eg" (http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/Muffler.cfm)
thanks for the link to Bill's site. I'd kinda forgotten about his contribution to the dust collection universe. A muffler sounds easy and I'll put one on the list.

Best regards, Tom

[neil mackay]

Neil, I have a air grinder ie tool and die type. Runs fast tho', to get it to run quiet and not freeze my hands as the exhaust blows out, I pipe it away the exhaust. The down side is, its very fast and not really suitable for general sanding.

[Neil Strong]

Neil, I have a air grinder ie tool and die type. Runs fast tho', to get it to run quiet and not freeze my hands as the exhaust blows out, I pipe it away the exhaust. The down side is, its very fast and not really suitable for general sanding.

OK, Neil. I can see that piping the exhaust air away would help with the noise problem right in front of you. It would also help to avoid blowing the dust away from dust collection ports. But, as you say, the speed is going to be a problem on some woods and faster isn't always faster when it comes to sanding.

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[Roger Chandler]

Here's an idea
157526

You'll need an assistant. But then, sanding can be a lonely business...it's nice to have company once in a while.

Glad I could help:)


Ehh, Leave it to professor Hart.........he is so smart, he will always find an solution to a problem! :D;):rolleyes:

[Gary Conklin]

Found a good source for the flex shaft: the bay item# 330470867945 $19.99 and no shipping.
ball bearing design with a Jacobs chuck.

I am just waiting on my other chuck and work arbor and will be all set. I did have to give it a shot hooked up to my drill, works well, but need to get used to the missing mass of the RA drill.

[Greg Ketell]

Outstanding item is a suitable forward/off/reverse switch, which hopefully won't be too difficult top come by.


Radio Shack carries 10A DPDT toggle switches. They are pretty easy to wire up for forward/off/reverse.

[Bill Bulloch]

Have you considered a different drill... Mine don't seem to make that much noise. I use ear plugs, too, but mainly to keep the sawdust out of my ears. Saw Dust and ear wax is like cement and water.