Best Table saw for a new(er) woodworking

[Brendan Davis]

Well, the summer job has come and almost gone, bringing with it my tool/shop/atv buying money...

And the next tool on my chopping block is a table saw.

I work in a confined space, an 11*23ft garage, so that $10k European sliding saw with 10ft cross cut capacity, with two liquid cooled V-Twins is safely out of the question.

I want to keep it smallish, but at the same time, I want the safety/accuracy of a Hybrid/Cabinet saw. So I know it wont be able to be tucked away on a shelf.

I am also younger than most woodworkings, at age 15, so safety features are a priority, although I do exercise good commonsence, which is the best safety feature of them all.

I would like to get something with a 10" blade, as well as a riving knife + splitter guard.


Finally, the budget. I absolutely cannot shell out more than 800 bones, but would much rather stay as close to $0 as possible!

Thank you.

PS: The ones that have caught my eye were the PC TS, and the Griz G0715P(Absolute MAX)

[Cary Falk]

I think the G0715P is probably your best choice even though it is about $60 over your budget delivered. I think they are not available till Sept. if that makes a difference. There probably won't be anything on the used market with a riving knife. I have looked at the Porter Cable table saw in Lowe's and it just doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I don't have any experience with either saw.

[scott spencer]

Brendan - If you have a 220 volt circuit available, you might consider buying a nice used 3hp cabinet saw. You'd have a saw for life that'll handle anything, though it's likely to have a stock splitter and not a true riving knife...there is an aftermarket Bolt On Ripping Knife (************) available for some saws.

The G0715P looks like a winner to me. I'd also check into the G0661.

The PCB270TS is essentially an updated version of the Hitachi C10FL that includes a riving knife and a better mobile base...otherwise it's the same saw, same fence.

You might still find a Ridgid R4511 from Steel City's Orion division floating around one of the HD's...they've been clearanced in the $300-$400 range...Herculift mobile base, riving knife, cabinet mounted trunnions, steel t-square fence. Ridgid has a new R4512 coming out that looks to be the same as the Craftsman 21833...I'm not overly familiar with either, but they fit the bill.

The Craftsman 22116 granite top saw (also from Orion), which replaced the venerable 22124 goes on sale in the $700 range...keep your eyes peeled for a sale. You might also find a 22124 floating around cheap (can add a ************ to this one too). Sears still carries the 22114, which is similar but has an aluminum fence.

The Jet Proshop series is a nice saw....no riving knife though that I've seen.

Steel City may have some new hybrids out too....similar to the 22116 and R4511.

Any of these can be tuned to perform well...setup and blade selection are critical factors with all of them. Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.

[John A. Callaway]

Home Depot.


The rigid brand portable saw.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/TS2410LS-Table-Saw/EN/index.htm

It runs a full dado set if you want, It is extremely accurate out of the box, It has one heck of a stable base, a good fence , a really good miter gauge and it is pretty powerful, unless you are gonna be sawing hickory all day.

The best part is, you can take a harbor freight 20% off coupon in , which knocks a hundred bucks off. The saw is usually 499, so you get it for 400.00 plus tax.

Super deal on a great power tool. Read some of the reviews scattered about online.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Brendan,

I suggest a used, low milage, 3 HP cabinet saw with a quality fence from Delta, Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, General, etc.

Just my opinion, but I think it's a lot more saw for the money (Especially if bought used) than a contractor saw or a hybrid.

PHM

[Van Huskey]

Where are you located, that might spark some ideas about used saws people may see on CL or know of a HD deal etc.

[Kyle Brooks]

I think all the ideas people have put on your question are great and I hope you find something that you like and can keep until your need is for something better. I just think that it is awesome that you are 15 years old and have found woodworking. You can tell that you have done some research and that is a plus. I hope you have a great woodworking experience. This is a good site if you ever have a question and good luck!!!!!

[Prashun Patel]

Have you considered a bandsaw instead? They're smaller, cheaper, and more versatile. The Grizzly G0555 or the G0555p are great saws that'll serve you for years. Get a circular saw with a good track and a plunge router and you should be able to do a lot with those 3 tools.

I'd save the tablesaw for later when you have more space and have settled down into a permanent space... I mean, with due respect, you're only 15 - and who knows where you'll be in 5 years...

Ah, to be 15 again!!!

[David Winer]

... that $10k European sliding saw with 10ft cross cut capacity, with two liquid cooled V-Twins ...
Brendan, I love your hyperbole. Best figure of speech I've seen on this forum. And you've given us all a dream to shoot for.

[Steven Hsieh]

Grizzly G0715Phttp://blog.extremehowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Grizzly-Hybrid-Tablesaw-Model-G0715P.gif





http://blogs.mydevstaging.com/blogs/woodworking-blog/files/2010/07/RIDGID-R4512-Cast-Iron-Table-Saw2.jpg

Ridgid has a new table saw coming out in September. Same design like Craftsman 21833. Who knows if it will have aligning problems.

[Paul Johnstone]

If you have to have a riving knife, you are pretty limited to buying new.

Consider a traditional splitter, as others said, if you live in a pretty populated area, used TS come up all the time.

[Bob Elliott]

Brendon,

I was once in your shoes when I was your age. When I was in high school I was interested in woodworking and spent all my summer and part-time job money on tools. My parents had 4 kids supported on one income so there wasn't a lot of extra cash to buy one of the boys tools.

To a much, mcuh lesser degree I still am in the same situation. I live in an expensive area (Santa Cruz, CA). My wife is at home with our two boys so even with a good job a decent salary doesn't go a long way in a place with a high cost of living. A lot of verbage to say there isn't a lot left over for tools.

What I do is scour craigslist for tools. Another gtreat web site is craiglook.com. This web site allows you to serach craigslist at a radius from your zip code.

I found by boss a nice Jet hybrid saw with a sliding table for $800. He left after paying $750. I scored an Incra router table fence, a couple routers, Freud router bit set and other tools over the years from craigslist. The Deals and Discounts page got me some decent deals on new tools. There are good values out there if you are wiling to put in the time and you are not in a hurry and willing to wait for a good deal on a tool that is in serviceable condition.

BTW where are you located?

[Rod Sheridan]

[QUOTE=Brendan Davis;1482533]
I work in a confined space, an 11*23ft garage, so that $10k European sliding saw with 10ft cross cut capacity, with two liquid cooled V-Twins is safely out of the question.

QUOTE]

Brendan, that was funny, however if you're going to have a motorcycle engine on a Euro saw, at least pick a good bike engine like a BMW boxer.:D

On a serious note, as others have indicated, you can often purchase a much better used saw instead of a new saw, you just have to be patient.

(I know it's tough to be patient, I'm the same way).

Regards, Rod.

[Greg Book]

You remind me of me when I was your age. I started woodworking when I was about 12 and got a Delta 10" table saw when I was around 14. There was no internet back then, only Home Depot. Anyway:

I would strongly suggest you do get a table saw with riving knife, for safety sake. Since you are young, you will probably be moving regularly. First out of your parent's house, and then to a dozen different dorms and apartments during college. You won't be able to really use your table saw again until you have a home for it. By home, I mean a structure in which you own (or rent) the thing top to bottom. If you have upstairs or downstairs neighbors, they won't like you or your table saw.

I'd suggest the Ridgid R4512 when it becomes available. It comes with a built in mobile base and can be easily moved when you move. Any portable table saw is ideal. The grizzly hybrid saw is around 400lbs. It can be moved, but only if you plan far in advance where you are moving it. I don't think a heavy cabinet saw is ideal for a young mobile teenager. Your hobby interest may change over time as well, then you or your parents will be stuck with a beast in the garage. I'd go small, you can always upgrade later when you have more space and more money.

[Mike Cruz]

Hiiiiiiii, Brendan. Do you want MY opinion? :cool:

[Myk Rian]

Where are you located, that might spark some ideas about used saws people may see on CL or know of a HD deal etc.
Ditto that. Update your location to make it easy on us.
You can find great deals on CL, especially in these hard times.

[Matt Meiser]

Hiiiiiiii, Brendan. Do you want MY opinion? :cool:

Mike, did you men PLo instead of Do? :rolleyes:

[Dan Karachio]

Brendan, if I had been encouraged to do wood working at your age, who knows where I would be today. Alas, I wasted a good deal of my youth on silly stuff. Good for you!

This is a tough one. Used is certainly one way to go, but there are a lot of well meaning people out there selling lousy tools. There are also a few not so well meaning. So, you really have to know what to look for and the good saws go super fast. I started with a Bosch portable saw and very very quickly outgrew it. No disrespect to the other recommendations, but I'd say you should stay away from any portable saws. So, while plenty other people here recommended a big cabinet saw for life, I'm tending to go more toward the middle - a contractor saw (used or new). They are heavy duty enough for most work and you could save enough to spend $$$ on other tools like that bandsaw - a very worthy suggestion to think about. Bandsaws are awesome.

Of course there is always the single v6 powered sliding saw.

[Nathan Allen]

BT3K in my opinion. They can be had used for under $200, have a non-quick change riving knife, a passable router table and that would leave the rest of the money for the other items.

Remember that a table saw is the first step, with that some glue and a couple hand tools you can make furniture, but eventually the demon will get hold of you and you'll be looking at your jointer, planer, band saw, combo sander, drill press and that Leigh Jig you got for a steal thinking "how did I get here?"

[Brendan Davis]

I am incredibly sorry, perhaps I wasnt clear in the first post: I do already own a bandsaw.

Okay, I appreciate the advice.

One question though, are craftsman any good? Now, I do recall them being humerously renamed as crapsman, but, the saws I have seen all come highly recommended by user reviews.

This one: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921833000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

My only concern is the odd guard, that leaves the rear of the blade uncovered, where as most others completly encapsulate it.

And this one: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922114000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

My concerns on this one are: This appears to be a right tilt(Since the rails extend further to the left) as well as the lower HP for more money. But its higher rated.

Should I be concerned with right vs. left tilt? And are the T-slots still of proprietary demensions, or are they now standard size? I used my grandfathers mitre guage on my bandsaw once, and noticed that it wasnt the same size(granted this saw is from the 70s-80s.) I would like something that uses the standard size, because then I can swap the guage between my BS and the TS.

I appreciate it folks.

[Curt Harms]

...........

I would strongly suggest you do get a table saw with riving knife, for safety sake. Since you are young, you will probably be moving regularly. First out of your parent's house, and then to a dozen different dorms and apartments during college. You won't be able to really use your table saw again until you have a home for it. By home, I mean a structure in which you own (or rent) the thing top to bottom. If you have upstairs or downstairs neighbors, they won't like you or your table saw.

I'd suggest the Ridgid R4512 when it becomes available. It comes with a built in mobile base and can be easily moved when you move. Any portable table saw is ideal. The grizzly hybrid saw is around 400lbs. It can be moved, but only if you plan far in advance where you are moving it. I don't think a heavy cabinet saw is ideal for a young mobile teenager. Your hobby interest may change over time as well, then you or your parents will be stuck with a beast in the garage. I'd go small, you can always upgrade later when you have more space and more money.

Greg brings up 2 good points
- Portability.

-power. If you want mobile, you don't want something that requires 240 volts.

I don't know if a Bosch 4100 in a Rousseau table or with the wheeled stand and side extensions would work for you or not. Little suckers ain't cheap, are they?


http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=hp&expIds=17259,23051,24472,25241,25797&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=rousseau+saw+stand&cp=11&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8184899169240524113&ei=zfZZTP3vHoXXnge11fzxCA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQ8wIwAg#

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_10?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=bosch+4100-09+10-inch+worksite+table+saw+with+gravity-rise+stand&sprefix=bosch+4100&ih=6_1_2_0_0_0_1_0_0_1.142_444&fsc=-1

[Matt Radtke]

It is my understanding that one or both of the Craftsman saws you listed have some manner of alignment problem when raising or lowering the blade? I don't recall which, as that info came to light after I bought my saw with a similar budget as you.

I went with the Ridgid 3660, which I believe is discontinued, which is really too bad. I think its replacement has even been discontinued. If there is a Home Depot, I'd see what they have in stock, perhaps they're clearing them out.

Out of the box, it was quite accurate. I have no complaints and it should last me until my wife and I buy that dream house with a huge, detached shop that will let me park an immobile cabinet saw right in the center.

[scott spencer]

...
One question though, are craftsman any good? Now, I do recall them being humerously renamed as crapsman, but, the saws I have seen all come highly recommended by user reviews.

This one: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921833000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

My only concern is the odd guard, that leaves the rear of the blade uncovered, where as most others completly encapsulate it.

And this one: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00922114000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

My concerns on this one are: This appears to be a right tilt(Since the rails extend further to the left) as well as the lower HP for more money. But its higher rated.

Should I be concerned with right vs. left tilt? And are the T-slots still of proprietary demensions, or are they now standard size? I used my grandfathers mitre guage on my bandsaw once, and noticed that it wasnt the same size(granted this saw is from the 70s-80s.) I would like something that uses the standard size, because then I can swap the guage between my BS and the TS.

I appreciate it folks.

Hi Brendan - It's not really as simple as saying all Craftsman are good saws, or all are bad saws. Both exist or have existed at some point in time, and the models change heavily throughout the years from a variety of manufacturers. It's more a matter of saw type than brand. Most of the Emerson made contractor saws (model # 113.######) with belt drive induction motors were good saws with lame fences, and have the same basic guts as the Emerson made Ridgid contractor saws (TS2412, 2424, 3612), and the Ryobi made Craftsman (315.######) and Ryobi made Ridgid contractor saws (TS3650, 3660). The wings, fences, and accessories change more than the internal cast parts of the design, which makes many of the parts interchangeable.

The Orion made Craftsman saws have an excellent reputation and were some of the best Craftsman saws I've seen. FWIW, Workbench Magazine rated the 22124 as top hybrid in 2005. The 22114 and 22104 were from the same line. The Steel City hybrids were pretty much the same saw too. The t-slots on most of the modern full size Craftsman saws are a standard 3/4" slot...true of the 22114, 22116, 22124, and likely the 21833, and most of the Emerson style contractor saws I've used.

The 21833 is a newer saw that was introduced less than a year ago IIRC, and is less proven. I did read about som people having some alignment issues, but I've also read from owners who love the saw. The new Ridgid R4512 appears to be the same saw with orange paint. Hopefully those alignment issues were isolated incidents, or got fixed in later models. The more that sold, the more in control the manufacturer process should be. I believe these are made by Dayton. It goes on sale in the low $400's, which is pretty attractive pricing.

The 22114 is definitely left tilt, and is definitely a well proven saw. The fence is functional, but isn't in the same league as the Biesemeyer on the 22124.

The "left tilt/right tilt" debate is largely a matter of preference, with pros and cons on both sides. I've owned both, and prefer LT for several reasons, but one of the biggest is that I can thread the arbor nut with my right hand, and the thread rotation is "normal". The arbor nut on a right tilt saw goes on from the left side and has reverse threads....it's a minor thing for most folks, but it really bugged me. Either way, I doubt I'd let a good deal on a good saw go south over the tilt direction.

[Karl Brogger]

Price wise finding a used Powermatic Model 66, or a Delta Uni-Saw, is money really well spent. Not exactly mobile, or light, but under proper care and hobbiest use it will last an extremely long time.

[Brendan Davis]

Yea, I do bust my tail in school, before the awful year I had this past year (Alot going on at home such as parents in a nasty divorce(still are, but its better) I had straight As and Bs... those dropped to Cs and Ds, as well as some Bs... but thats to be expected, everyone including the darned court ordered shrink told me so... lol yep, a stipulation to the divorce.

But I digress... I hear you on the PM66/Uni but they are unfortunately outside of my price range, even used, as well as my electricity phase rating(most are 3 phase.)

I cant tell what type of saw this is, any idea: http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/1879312206.html Its Delta Cabinet(It doesnt look contractor.. and I dont think they had hybrids yet.. but it has legs..)... Im not certain its a Uni.... but its $100...

[Myk Rian]

Those C-man saws are made by Orion, the same manufacturer of my Steel City Hybrid. I love it. The 1 3/4 hp model would be my choice of the 2.