A question about making beds...

[Jason White]

For you guys who have made beds:

How do you support the box spring/mattress set? Is the box spring even necessary? I've found them to be of very flimsy construction.

Would I be better off making a torsion box platform myself and laying the mattress directly on it?

Jason

[Joe Spear]

I have built beds with just a plywood sheet to support the mattress, with no box spring. Just make sure the plywood is supported underneath by boards fastened strongly to the sides of the bed. You could make a torsion box, but you don't really need to The most comfortable bed I ever had was one I built with a plywood box to support the mattress. Come to think of it, it was a sort of torsion box made without a lot of serious measuring or leveling. The mattress was a piece of firm foam that I got from a place in Clifton Heights, PA. They had huge blocks of foam and would slice off the thickness you needed on a horizontal bandsaw table. Then they would trim it to the length and width you needed. It was as comfortable as a Tempurpedic and a whole lot cheaper. But after 35 years, I don't suppose that place still exists.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Jason
The last two bedroom sets I made, are with a torsion box platform. With mattress directly on top of it. The last one was a Sleep Number bed that was much more comfortable to sleep on then their platform. Torsion box was made from clear pine 1x4's with a double 1x4 centered over sleeping position, with 1/4" ply skin. Tom

[Dan Friedrichs]

For the bed frame I built, I ended up needing to build a lot of support under the boxspring to keep it from squeaking. In the future, I will certainly build one WITHOUT a boxspring. At least if I build a torsion box myself, I can be sure it is built solidly and won't squeak.

[Larry Fox]

For the two that I have made I took the long angle iron from a standard el-cheapo bd frame and screwed it to the rails. This method requires a boxspring. They have both stood up to my sons jumping around on them as kids do.

[Frank Drew]

Jason,

Most of the mattress makers say that mattresses last longer if they sit on box springs, but that might must be manufacturer's hype to sell box springs.

Whatever... when I've made beds intended to include box springs and don't want to use Harvard frames, I've used right-angled bed irons, three per side rail, with the middle iron just ever so slightly lower than the end ones to prevent rocking of the box spring.

Here's a picture of bed hardware, including two sizes of bed irons, from Horton Brasses:

http://www.horton-brasses.com/store/bedhardware/bedboltsbed

[keith jensen]

When we bought my daughter's big bed, at first we brought home the box spring. It was way too tall, added 6+ inches to the height of the bed and seemed really cheap. I made a a two section torsion box (too big to carry in one piece) and cut the height by more than half. I probably went overboard for a 35lb kid. It is solid as a rock too.

A buddy of mine was just over last night telling me a story about the box spring under his daughters bed being pretty much destroyed by his kid jumping on the bed. My first though was why let her get that crazy and second was that I'm glad I built the torsion box for when I'm not paying attention to what she's up to!!

[Alan Schaffter]

Modern "box springs" are more like a "box" and less like a "spring" mattress than they used to be- now they are really junk and a joke. In my college days we could overload a hotel room by slipping the mattress onto the floor. Some guys would sleep on the mattress while others could also sleep on the box spring which was almost as soft as the mattress. Not so anymore.

For the beds I built and am building, I screw or bolt 1" X 1" (approx) wood cleats to bottom inside of the bed side rails. Since the bottom of even the old style box springs have a wooden frame, I run a half a dozen 1" x 2" traditional wooden slats side to side and rest them on the cleats to support the box spring and mattress.

However, when I made bunk beds for my kids and didn't use a box spring I put a thin sheet of ply over the slats and set the mattress on that. I didn't want a large, heavy piece of ply or a large bulky torsion box under the mattress.

[Craig D Peltier]

Must mention, if you have a cheap mattress the plywood backing without a box spring may be a back killer. Had a client who bought new mattress due to this discomfort.

[Brian D Anderson]

What everyone else said.

I am going to be making a bed for my son, and I purchased this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Beds-Jeff-Miller/dp/1561582549/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1280689047&sr=1-2

It has a lot of good info on the various types of beds (and support for mattresses).

Looks like you can get it used for just a few bucks.

I haven't made my bed yet, but I'm ready for it.

-Brian

[Kevin Groenke]

For the beds I built and am building, I screw or bolt 1" X 1" (approx) wood cleats to bottom inside of the bed side rails. Since the bottom of even the old style box springs have a wooden frame, I run a half a dozen 1" x 2" traditional wooden slats side to side and rest them on the cleats to support the box spring and mattress.


Mine too, a Queen mattress sitting directly on slats (Ash 7/8"x3") spaced about every 8". The slats are stapled to some webbing to roll up on moving day. Just the end slats are screwed to the cleats on the bedrail.

[Frank Drew]

Mine too, a Queen mattress sitting directly on slats (Ash 7/8"x3") spaced about every 8". The slats are stapled to some webbing to roll up on moving day. Just the end slats are screwed to the cleats on the bedrail.

I'd probably fasten one or more of the middle slats to the cleats, to prevent any bowing of the side rails; I think your mattress might also be happier with something, even a thing piece of ply, between it and the slats.

[Jon van der Linden]

You don't really want a flat sheet of anything under your mattress because it won't breath. This can promote mold growth and things like that that no one wants in their bed. A large number of slats is a much better solution.

[Jim Barstow]

I've made 6 beds for our house and our kids. (I'm now in the middle of my 7th.)

I've never used a box spring. They put a real constraint on the design since they add so much thickness. New, high quality mattresses can be 15" thick. Add a box spring and a headboard/footboard has to be huge to be visible.

You really need to know the approximate thickness of the mattress you'll be using if you want to get the proportions right. A headboard designed for an 8" mattress might not look right with a 15" mattress and vice versa.

I support the mattress on slats that sit on cleats glued/screwed to side rails. I keep them in place by cutting slots in the ends that fit over short lengths of dowels on the cleats. If you don't do this, the slats will creep and you'll end up with unsupported sections.

For the last couple beds, I've added a support beam that runs down the center and is supported with 2 legs at either end. (This is for a queen size, it might not be necessary for a smaller size.

[Darius Ferlas]

I'm working on a day bed so I've even shopping around for a mattress. A fella in Sears told me that some companies will not honor the warranty if the box spring is not used, and it better be the box spring by the same manufacturer. Somehow I don't really care and I will use slats.

Some beds with box springs look ridiculously tall and they actually look hilarious. In one store my wife (5'4") literally had to climb on top of one of those beds. The top of the bed was above her belly button.

If the trend continues then soon we may see changes to building codes around the continent. Minimum ceiling height may have to be increased to 12 feet to provide ample head room.

[Joe Spear]

In many years we've never had any problems with our mattresses on flat sheets of plywood--no moisture, no mold, no deformation, nothing.

[Steve Griffin]

I've also experienced no problems at all with plywood base beds. Perhaps in more humid areas it would be a concern though.

I've built over a dozen beds with a ply base and drawers beneath--the structure needed to support the plywood nicely lends itself to making a drawer bank. I build the bed in two halves, and the ply top gets applied separately in the bedroom.

If a traditional bed is what you are building, I've also framed the plywood base support out of 2x4's and metal joist hangers. Sounds primative, but I've used this on $6000 beds. It can easily be dismantled for moving the bed as well if you use screws.

-Steve

[Caleb Larru]

You don't really want a flat sheet of anything under your mattress because it won't breath. This can promote mold growth and things like that that no one wants in their bed. A large number of slats is a much better solution.

Flipping your mattress every month will take care of that.

[Jon van der Linden]

Flipping your mattress every month will take care of that.

Not all mattresses are designed to be flipped i.e. they are "one side up." Even if you can flip it, there are many people that can't, won't, or will forget. Even if you do flip it, that still won't get rid of moisture in the center of the mattress.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there or isn't a serious problem. For example, most of us are aware that there are mites on pillows etc., so we wash them. We still don't actually "see them." If you are actually seeing black mold when you lift a mattress, then it's time to throw it away.

Having a large number of narrow slats solves this problem.

[Joe Spear]

In more than thirty years we've never had mold on a mattress on plywood.

[Jon van der Linden]

In more than thirty years we've never had mold on a mattress on plywood.

If you're making things for yourself it really doesn't matter. If you're making things for paying clients they deserve some care, thought, and consideration.

This is a known problem. I'm not saying that YOU will have noticeable mold, but I am saying that other people very well might. As always these things depend on a variety of factors like how much a person perspires, temperature, humidity, type of mattress, etc..

[Rick Markham]

Flipping your mattress every month will take care of that.

Speaking of cheap, some newer mattresses are only one sided :rolleyes: and generally it isn't the "cheap" mattresses that are the ones that are one sided.

[Lee Schierer]

I've made two beds and in both cases I purchased a bed frame with inner springs for them. It greatly simplifies the construction and you don't have to worry about weight load. I'm designing a third bed right now and plan to do the same for it.

[Caleb Larru]

Not all mattresses are designed to be flipped i.e. they are "one side up." Even if you can flip it, there are many people that can't, won't, or will forget. Even if you do flip it, that still won't get rid of moisture in the center of the mattress.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there or isn't a serious problem. For example, most of us are aware that there are mites on pillows etc., so we wash them. We still don't actually "see them." If you are actually seeing black mold when you lift a mattress, then it's time to throw it away.

Having a large number of narrow slats solves this problem.


And the chances of your mattress growing mold is extremely rare. That is, unless you regularly wet the bed.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Box springs no longer do what they once did. They used to have more springs in them. Today they are just like torsion boxes and only serve to raise the mattress. Mattress technology has also come a long way, obviating the need for a sprung box spring.

[Jon van der Linden]

And the chances of your mattress growing mold is extremely rare. That is, unless you regularly wet the bed.

I'm sure you speak from experience.

Seriously though, do you actually have any technical knowledge to say that nothing is growing in there? Do you actually know anything about mattress design?

As I've said before, if you're making something for yourself, it's your risk. If you make things for other people you should design and construct with thought, care, and consideration. Even if you know the conditions of where the bed is going i.e humidity, user, mattress style, all those things can change without the bed changing ownership.

[Caleb Larru]

I'm sure you speak from experience.

Seriously though, do you actually have any technical knowledge to say that nothing is growing in there? Do you actually know anything about mattress design?

As I've said before, if you're making something for yourself, it's your risk. If you make things for other people you should design and construct with thought, care, and consideration. Even if you know the conditions of where the bed is going i.e humidity, user, mattress style, all those things can change without the bed changing ownership.


Yes, I am sure there was a time in my life that I wet the bed as you no doubt did. However, those time are long gone and so are the chances of mold developing in my mattress. The only circumstance that I would be concerned with my mattress growing mold is if I already had a mold infestation in my house. Then, not even slats are going to help you. These days most (if not all) reputable mattress companies treat their mattress material with an antimicrobial agent.

Even then there are tens of thousands of types of mold. Want to guess how many are harmful to humans? Only a fraction. Mold needs three things to grow....Water, nutrients, and oxygen. Again, unless you already have a problem with mold in your house, don't ever clean your house, store last weeks pizza under your bed, or have regular water balloon fights on your bed, the chances of having mold in your mattress is very minimal.

[Jon van der Linden]

Yes, I am sure there was a time in my life that I wet the bed as you no doubt did. However, those time are long gone and so are the chances of mold developing in my mattress. The only circumstance that I would be concerned with my mattress growing mold is if I already had a mold infestation in my house. Then, not even slats are going to help you. These days most (if not all) reputable mattress companies treat their mattress material with an antimicrobial agent.

Even then there are tens of thousands of types of mold. Want to guess how many are harmful to humans? Only a fraction. Mold needs three things to grow....Water, nutrients, and oxygen. Again, unless you already have a problem with mold in your house, don't ever clean your house, store last weeks pizza under your bed, or have regular water balloon fights on your bed, the chances of having mold in your mattress is very minimal.

So your basic argument is that you have no experience or knowledge other than having wet your bed. Good for trolling the internet, but not helpful to this forum or people that make up this community.

[Caleb Larru]

So your basic argument is that you have no experience or knowledge other than having wet your bed. Good for trolling the internet, but not helpful to this forum or people that make up this community.

Considering I have flipped multiple houses and have dealt with mold removal and prevention, I would say I have plenty of experience. I also have a family member who is an allergist that I see for my allergies.

In all that time, I have never had an instance of having mold in my mattress. And yes, my mattress is on plywood.

There are a lot of things that concern me but mold growing on/in my mattress ain't one of them.

You never mentioned what made you an authority on the subject but I would like to point out, if your house has a mold infestation, your mattress is the least of your problems.

[Paul Ryan]

I've made two beds and in both cases I purchased a bed frame with inner springs for them. It greatly simplifies the construction and you don't have to worry about weight load. I'm designing a third bed right now and plan to do the same for it.

This is the best method I have come up with as well. The last 2 beds I have made I ditched the torsion box and or plywood base. I just use a purchased steel frame and screw the head board, foot board, and side rails to it. You don't have to worry about strength, squeaks, or anything else. Only platform beds with drawers and storage underneath and bunk beds need the base built to support the mattress and box spring.

I would also recommend buying the low profile box spring it is easily hidden with the side rails then. And you wont get the fear of heights tingles when sleeping on it.

[Jon van der Linden]

Considering I have flipped multiple houses and have dealt with mold removal and prevention, I would say I have plenty of experience. I also have a family member who is an allergist that I see for my allergies.

In all that time, I have never had an instance of having mold in my mattress. And yes, my mattress is on plywood.

There are a lot of things that concern me but mold growing on/in my mattress ain't one of them.

You never mentioned what made you an authority on the subject but I would like to point out, if your house has a mold infestation, your mattress is the least of your problems.

Caleb, thanks for changing the tone of your replies.

It appears that your a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Flipping houses, contracting for mold abatement, and knowing an allergist hardly qualify anyone for furniture design.

My family has been in the furniture business for over 100 years. That in itself doesn't qualify me as knowing anything about furniture. Where my knowledge comes from is consulting directly with mattress and furniture companies on design issues surrounding their product.

Personal anecdote, while useful, is hardly a sound basis for universal truth. Your personal situation and experience is very limited compared to the range of what exists. I understand why you're not concerned for yourself, and for you plywood works. What I do is at the opposite end of what you do. Part of that is to take care of all those small details that make something great. My clients shouldn't have to wonder about design issues or construction methods, or eventual problems, but if they ever do, they can be confident that I already know about it and have considered all options and possibilities.

[Mark Woodmark]

I have made a couple beds. I used angle shaped wood slats to support the mattress with the leg of the angle pointed to the floor. These slats were attached to rails dadoed and screwed to a 6/4 side rails with bolts and nuts. One of the beds is over 20 years old and still in good shape. Attached the head and foot boards to the side rails with bed bolts. The side rails have stubby tenons on each end that go into shallow mortises in the leg post. between that and the bed bolts it is really strong. Dont think the bed knock down clips are as strong.