used laguna bandsaw-what to look for

[Gary Jesse]

This is my first post on sawmill creek. I'm a farmer and an amateur woodworker. I need a bandsaw for some general furniture projects and to resaw some 2" planking that we had sawed from our woods. The planks are mostly 2" by 10" and 12". The wood is mostly red and white oak along with some basswood and white ash. The wood has knots and uneven grain, which I guess is now called highly figured. I won't tell you what we called it when we sawed it. I've located a used Laguna 16HD bandsaw. Supposedly with little use. It seems that this saw would fit my requirements. I could use some advice on what to check for and what questions to ask about this saw.

Gary Jesse

[James Baker SD]

check its resaw depth, it may not handle your 12" pieces. I have the Laguna Italian 18" and happy other than the rather swallow resaw.

James

[Van Huskey]

First do you know what vintage it is? They have changed a LOT over the years. For example Jame's saw above is an older LT18, the current LT18 has a 18 3/8" resaw height and the current LT16HD has a 16 3/8" resaw height and the current LT16HD classic has a 13" resaw height. The older saws probably will not have the current (excellent) ceramic guides nor the better higher horse Baldor motor. My point with this is if it is a older saw you can't compare them directly to the new saws and can't base resonable used prices of the current prices.

In general look for wear & tear, abuse, table flatness, the guides adjust easily as well as the tension and tracking controls. Then the proof is in the pudding or cut so to speak. Fire it up and listen to it, you shouldn't hear much, watch/feel for vibration, and see how it cuts. If it does all this well then you are probably in good shape, if not it may be just a dull blade or simple tuning issue but it could be more, thats when you have to start diagnosing or walk away.

[Arnold E Schnitzer]

My newer LT-18 blew its switch at one year; other than that (and a PITA lower blade guide), it's a monster workhorse. I regularly resaw 15" hardwoods with no problem.

[Gary Jesse]

I just got off the phone with the seller. He the saw is about 8 years old(2002 model). It has a 3 horse motor, which he said was saw grade, whatever that means. He claims that his 3 hp motor is the same physical size as the 4 1/2 hp thats on the new saws. He said it has the european ceramic guides, and that it has the hi-low aluminum fence. He said it has had use, mainly for resawing 6" stock, mostly cherry. The saw is hooked up and he will run some test cuts for me. He also has some blades to go with it. The story is he needs money for some other equipment and the saw currently isn't used that much. The asking price is $1375. Any thoughts?

[Dan Friedrichs]

Sounds good, except the price is high. I'd think $800 or so would be fair.

[Jon Bonham]

Sounds good, except the price is high. I'd think $800 or so would be fair.

Wow, that's quite a disparity in price.

[Chris Nolin]

I agree, Jon. Depending on the resaw height, I would pay somewhere between $1200 and $1500 for this saw, if it were exactly what I needed. We'd all love to get a gloat-worthy deal on every piece of gear we need for our workshops, but this guy seems to know exactly how much his saw is worth.

[Jon Bonham]

Hey, I just picked up my new to me G1073 yesterday for $220, so I guess anything is possible. And except for the guy I bought it from not having the slightest idea how to thread the blade through the machine, it's like brand new. :D

[Jamie Buxton]

My LT16HD is a couple years older than the one you're looking at. It has been a workhorse in my shop. A new one, although it does have more resaw capability, is something like $3K. Getting one for $1375, including some blades, is a good deal.

His is likely to be 230 volts single phase, but it might be 3-phase, and that's worth asking about before you make the drive.

My one bit of advice is that if you're going to be resawing long boards, do make yourself some serious infeed and outfeed support. All bandsaws have silly little tables.

[Steve Rowe]

I just got off the phone with the seller. He the saw is about 8 years old(2002 model). It has a 3 horse motor, which he said was saw grade, whatever that means. He claims that his 3 hp motor is the same physical size as the 4 1/2 hp thats on the new saws. He said it has the european ceramic guides, and that it has the hi-low aluminum fence. He said it has had use, mainly for resawing 6" stock, mostly cherry. The saw is hooked up and he will run some test cuts for me. He also has some blades to go with it. The story is he needs money for some other equipment and the saw currently isn't used that much. The asking price is $1375. Any thoughts?

About 3 months ago, I sold a friends Minimax 20" bandsaw (2004 vintage if I recall correctly) with 15" resaw capacity and euroguides. Selling price was $1600 and no quibbling whatsoever on price. The $1375 asking price seems fair.

I happen to have a 2000 model LT-18 with the 3HP Italian motor. I added the ceramic guides in 2002. It has 12" resaw and hasn't had a single problem in the 10 years I have owned it. It is a great saw and I would not even consider selling it for the $1375 this guy is asking. Have you looked at the price of new saws of this caliber (Italian made) lately? It is a fair deal assuming it is in good condition.
Steve

[Dan Friedrichs]

Sounds good, except the price is high. I'd think $800 or so would be fair.


Well, maybe I'm thinking too low. I didn't realize this one was the one ACM made. I guess the asking price isn't bad.

[Willard Foster]

Hi Gary,

I had the same question a few weeks ago. One thing I learned was to avoid a saw made in Bulgaria.

It will have "Stomana" on the name plate. At least that's what the Laguna person told me how to identify a Bulgarian saw.

One thing you may want to consider is buying the HD versus the non-HD. It's my understanding that the HD os a more robust saw, but I'm only going on what I have read. There is a pretty good price difference also.

Good luck, hope to see a "gloat" soon!

Bill

[lawrence dosson]

Hi Gary
welcome to the creek from a fellow farmer and i also play at wood working i canot coment on that saw
i have two a delta 14 and a general 17 but no luguna
used equipment pricing is sort of a location thing some areas of the country things are cheap and other places not so .
but that sounds like a fair price to pay if the saw is good Lawrence

[Van Huskey]

I just got off the phone with the seller. He the saw is about 8 years old(2002 model). It has a 3 horse motor, which he said was saw grade, whatever that means. He claims that his 3 hp motor is the same physical size as the 4 1/2 hp thats on the new saws. He said it has the european ceramic guides, and that it has the hi-low aluminum fence. He said it has had use, mainly for resawing 6" stock, mostly cherry. The saw is hooked up and he will run some test cuts for me. He also has some blades to go with it. The story is he needs money for some other equipment and the saw currently isn't used that much. The asking price is $1375. Any thoughts?

If the motor is Italian there were some overheating issues with them and why Laguna went to the American made Baldor motors it uses now. Point being the newest motors are the better motors, period. It sounds like it has European guides with ceramic faces, do not confuse those with the current guides either, the current guides are far superior. Take a look at the current guides on the Laguna site and pictures of Euro guides so you can tell the difference when you see it. What is the resaw height on this saw?


The new LT 16HD classic (probably the closest current model) has:

13" of resaw
4.5 HP motor (American Baldor)
the current (awesome) Laguna guides
sells for $2695 when not on sale

Without the guides and with the lower HP motor (particularly if it is Italian) my top would be about $1100. My reasoning is if it does not have the current guides and the better motor it is missing two key ingrediants that help the current Lagunas compete at the very top of vertical bandsaws. If it has the current guides I would be happy at close to $1300.

[Andy Sowers]

How timely... I came across a Laguna 16 3hp here... seller wants $1400 for it and says its ~4yrs old and seen light usage. Its not the HD version, but has the foot brake and comes with a "resaw king" blade along with the mobility kit. Haven't seen it yet, but the picture I saw looks like its in very good shape.

I'm assuming this vintage comes from the Bulgarian manufacturing lines... that coupled with some bad customer service complaints on Laguna here on SMC has me a little gunshy... I'm wondering if my money might be better spent on something else?

What say you?

Thanks
Andy

[Steve Rowe]

If the motor is Italian there were some overheating issues with them and why Laguna went to the American made Baldor motors it uses now. Point being the newest motors are the better motors, period. It sounds like it has European guides with ceramic faces, do not confuse those with the current guides either, the current guides are far superior. Take a look at the current guides on the Laguna site and pictures of Euro guides so you can tell the difference when you see it.
That is why Laguna went to?; Point being ... period?; The current guides are far superior. These are pretty authoritative statements that sound factual but I suspect they are opinions.

The engineer in me has to ask your basis for these conclusions. Does the motor turn better?; is it more reliable?; does it not trip thermal overloads? I recall seeing complaints on some forums about the Italian motors running hotter than what the user expected but this doesn't necessarily mean a bad motor. I have been running Italian, German, and Austrian made motors as well as Taiwanese, Baldor, Leeson, Franklin, and GE motors for years and have never had a failure. I cannot say that one make is any better than the other as they have all done the job they were expected. I don't know why Laguna changed to Baldor but it could easily have been for reasons other than what you have indicated (e.g., we are increasing the resaw height, need a larger motor, and the Baldor is a cost effective option). If you worked for Laguna at the time and were involved in making the decision to change, my apologies.

I am an engineer at a power plant and several of my plant modifications have installed a number of motors including a small 1/2 HP Baldor motor that runs so hot you cannot hold your hand on it. The motor has operated nearly continously without failure for over 5 years. Would you also conclude that this is a bad motor? I would hope not. As long as the motor is operating within its design capabilities, it is acceptable.

The Euroguides you mention have roller bearings and not ceramic faces. My saw originally came with Euroguides and I upgraded to ceramic several years later. While I prefer the ceramic guides, I cannot say that the Euroguides are inferior. This is soley a statement of personal preference and is my opinion.
Steve

[Dan Friedrichs]

How timely... I came across a Laguna 16 3hp here... seller wants $1400 for it and says its ~4yrs old and seen light usage. Its not the HD version, but has the foot brake and comes with a "resaw king" blade along with the mobility kit. Haven't seen it yet, but the picture I saw looks like its in very good shape.

I'm assuming this vintage comes from the Bulgarian manufacturing lines... that coupled with some bad customer service complaints on Laguna here on SMC has me a little gunshy... I'm wondering if my money might be better spent on something else?

What say you?

Thanks
Andy

I don't think the Bulgarian ones are bad - I have a Bulgarian LT14SE, and quality is lightyears ahead of everything else in my shop. It just isn't an *Italian* saw. They are still exceptionally nice.

I think Laguna got the message about their customer service - they sponsor SMC now, and seem to have improved their CS tremendously. I wouldn't worry about that.

[Scot Ferraro]

I have a 2001 Laguna LT18 and I have upgraded the guides, fence and put the new Baldor motor on it. The Italian motor ran extremely hot and while it did not fail on me, I never felt comfortable using it for extended periods. The Baldor works better for me and I have no regrets with the upgrade. Laguna's service has been top notch -- I had an internal part fail on me last December and Laguna gave me a replacement free of charge. They stand behind their products and IMHO, they will work with you to solve any issues. I would not part with my saw and would buy a new one in a heartbeat.

Scot

[Gary Max]

I bought a new HD-16---and that's the last dime they will ever get from me.
See I am getting better ---no 200 words on what I think about my saw or the people I bought it from.

[Mike Ruggeri]

I bought my HD16 used too -I paid $1500 for it which I thought was fair as it was lightly used and in very good shape. Mine has the newer guides with the older european motor and 13 inch resaw. Overall I am very happy with it and have had no issues.

M

[Gary Jesse]

Thanks for all the information. In the end I'm going to pass on this saw. The deal killer is that it is 180 miles and a $230 ferry ride away. After adding in the gas, and if I put any value on my time, I'll be over the cost of a LT14sel, which will be enough saw for my needs. Also I will get new ceramic guides and a new warranty(yes I know about the customer service problems that Laguna has had in the past)

One side note. It is interesting how some people have had good experiences and others have had bad experiences with the same model saw. I guess that's why there are so many different saw models and manufacturers out there.

[Andy Sowers]

Well, I guess I'm on the opposite side of the fence... I ended up buying LT16 I had posted about (non-HD version). He ended up living less than a mile away from my house, literally down the street!

The saw seems to be in great shape, the original owner had upgrade to an 18" saw shortly after buying this one so it is in pretty good shape overall...

Being a used saw, I'm hoping all the "bugs" (if any) have been worked out...

Andy

[Mark Fogleman]

Thanks for all the information. In the end I'm going to pass on this saw.

Care to share where the saw is located? Maybe someone here is interested.

[Josh Bowman]

[QUOTE=Dan Friedrichs;1479711I think Laguna got the message about their customer service - they sponsor SMC now, and seem to have improved their CS tremendously. I wouldn't worry about that.[/QUOTE]
Might want to rethink that. I don't think they have gotten the message just yet. I have the 14 SUV and bought all the goodies. A 3/8" blade broke, and did damage to the saw guides, throat plate and other stuff that was a not big deal to live with. I called and sent pictures and got a fast response from the salesman. Several days later and after another phone call, I got the service folks. We struck a fair price on the repair parts, that was a good thing. But when they finally arrived, the box was missing the throat plate and one of the guides. I also have the resaw king blade and found it was defective and had told them about it at the same time(it was very hard to saw with). The salesman again very quickly responded, but nothing from the service folks on it or the missing previous order. Called again a week later, the salesman says he is all over it. A week later nothing. Called yesterday and sternly asked for the resolution. After staying on the phone with the service guy while he went to the warehouse to get the stuff and having him email me the agreement, I think I now may have it resolved. We'll see when the stuff comes in. I'm not saying they are rude or unfair. It seems to be a process problem. I noted the service guy had to get permission a lot. It may be an empowerment issue, I don't know. They are always very nice on the phone, just slooooow to come through.

[Gary Jesse]

If anyone is interested. The saw is in Manton Michigan. It is located in the northern part of lower Michigan. The phone is 231-388-3872. Ask for Corry.

[Theodore Beyer]

I am looking at a 16HD from 2004. It appears to seen little use but was neglected The blade was left tensioned and I will have to clean/lube everything. The motor is not Baldor but the paint scheme is like the latest Lagunas. I tentatively agreed to $1100. Does this seem good? Thanks. Ted

[Mike Wilkins]

Nice price on that machine. As for the blade tension neglect; the only issue you should have is a weakened spring. Or not. Easy item to get from Laguna if it is not strong enough. I have had a LT18 since 2001 and it has been a workhorse. I upgraded to ceramic guides and a Resaw King blade for resawing. You will like this machine.