Pallet truck vs. casters? Isues?

[ian maybury]

Just for discussion. It seems that heavy duty grounding casters are pretty popular in the US to enable machine movement in a small shop. Over here it's fairly common to use what we call a pallet truck: e.g. http://www.vestilmfg.com/products/mhequip/pt-lowprofile.htm (not sure if it goes by that name with you guys)

I've gone that route, and at this early stage find it works very well - it's very flexible, means that I have the ability to shift all sorts of heavy loads, and at about €250 for one these days is not too expensive.

My machines are all Hammer (spindle moulder, panel saw and planer thicknesser), it was much cheaper than buying OEM wheel sets. You do need a low profile model to get under the Hammer machines.

A big bandsaw is next on the list, it's not really set up to suit the truck as you can't get the forks under it. The provisional plan though is to build a wooden sub base with leveling feet and openings for the forks - i think I'll want to raise the table level anyway, and may also raise the Hammer machines a bit.

I'm hoping that the Hammer machines (especially the panel saw) won't need moving once the positions are optimised, as it's probably a recipe to cause alignment problems with the sliding table. The bandsaw probably will need to be moved fairly regularly to make clearance for longer ripping type jobs...

ian

[Van Huskey]

Over here it's fairly common to use what we call a pallet truck: e.g. http://www.vestilmfg.com/products/mhequip/pt-lowprofile.htm (not sure if it goes by that name with you guys)

ian

We call them pallet jacks.

Some people use them here as well, some of those folks just use the bottom pallet from when the machine was shipped as most of them are pallet jack friendly, though some are only fork lift friendly.

[Scott T Smith]

Ian, that's a great observation about the benefits of a pallet truck (or "Jack" as we colonials refer to it).

I have one in my shop and it gets used frequently. My old shop had several machines on rolling bases, but I find that I prefer the pallet jack as it is quicker, easier to use, and the equipment is more stable once it is set back on the floor.

[Jon van der Linden]

Moving things with a pallet jack or whatever you want to call it is a lot more efficient than casters. Moving bandsaws with one is not a great idea at all though. The main issue being the tipping factor. The load can easily rotate on the axis of the steering wheel and you'll end up with a bandsaw on the floor if your the slightest bit unlucky.

I have always had a habit of moving things around, but bandsaws, at least the larger ones, should stay put as much as possible.

[Rob Damon]

Ian, since my shop is still a work in progress, I have to move the bigger tools around a lot so I have built several different bases.

The bases consists of two stacked 2x4's and a strip of 1/2" plywood or OSB to make the top platform high enough for the pallet jack to get under it.

-The RAS, DDS, OES can be picked up from any side.
-The Air Compr., flatfiles and Jointer can be pickup up from front or back.

The Jointer photo shows the pallet jack in use.

I tried using a similar base for the big bandsaw but becauses the motor is offset, it was not very stable on the pallet jacket, so a local welder beefed up a mobile base from Woodcraft with some 1/4" plate and made a mobile base for it

Rob

[Steve Milito]

I have a pallet jack to move heavy equipment. They take up a lot of space and can be a bit tricky to move around. I prefer to have smaller equipment on casters, but some things are just to heavy for caster, and the pallet jack is ideal for them.

[Cliff Holmes]

Stuff I move a lot and doesn't need to be stable (drum sander, metal bandsaw) live on casters. Stuff that generally stays put and/or needs to be stable I built platforms that I can lift with a pallet jack.

http://www.thewoodnerd.com/workshop/mobileBases.html

An added benefit is raising the work surfaces of my machines. I have a sensitive back (old injuries) and find I like my work surfaces around 38-40".

With hindsight, I wish I had bought a miniature pallet jack instead, it would have been more maneuverable.

If you have a top-heavy machine like a bandsaw, keep the weight over the front wheels. Otherwise it might tip on the axis between a front wheel and the single rear wheel. In any case, only lift enough to clear the floor.

[Van Huskey]

The thread is illuminating something I really agree with moving a "real" bandsaw (14" saws excluded) is something I do not like to do at all. I like to see them find a place and live there, not too hard since they work well against a wall.

[Mike Heidrick]

My Joe's CNC, 16" RAS, and Laguna T1002S are all on pallets and I move them with a pallet jack. Pallet jack was recertified by a friend and traded for a wooden car/wagon seat I made him. A pallet for the tools hand made costs me about $12-$20 depending on the sheeting I use. Much cheaper than mobile bases.

Before I started doing that I bought HTC and Jet bases. The planer HD HTC one was $300! Lucked into the jointer one on clearence for $30.

The MM20 is on great lakes casters. VERY SMOOTH moving for an 800lb bandsaw. Cost was about $60 shipped for those. I think they are 220lb rated each.

My friend bought the HUGE version of the great lakes casters that has a plate rather than a post - something like 2200lb rated each. I may put the shaper on those to reduce its footprint as I used the shipping pallet for it rather than making one for it.

Sometime I wish I had that smaller footprint pallet jack that is available - it has narrow tines. The price was right on the one I have.

[Dave Cav]

I got a pallet jack when I got my current planer, a Powermatic 180, that weighs 1300 pounds. (Actually I got two pallet jacks; the first one is out back in the weeds and I don't want to talk about it....). The planer is on skids and now that it's connected to the DC system I don't plan on moving it around much any more but the pallet jack will probably come in handy for other things later. They do take up a lot of room; right now it lives under the planer.

[Mike Heidrick]

Cliff, great job on your bases!

[Chip Lindley]

NO room in my shop space to navigate a pallet jack! (much less store one) Everything is on swivel casters. The bigger the machine, the heavier the casters. Burden Sales is a great place to find heavy duty casters (or just wheels) at lightweight prices!

[Will Blick]

great thread, its something we all have to deal with....
As always, the best solution varies based on your shop and budget.

I love the "pallet jack ready" bases many of you built... very clever. If you need to raise your machines anyway, to suit your height, the pallet-jack-ready base is a low cost and good solution to combine it with machine movement capability, IF YOU HAVE THE SPACE to negotiate the jack around. ...which is often the biggest problem. Plus, you have to store the jack.... but regardless, these pallett jacks have an amazing bang for the buck when it comes to lifting / moving... I paid more for 4 casters for my jointer than the jack costs....

[Rob Damon]

Will said "you have to store the jack"..

I just store mine behind (attached) to the big jointer considering it is almost 48" from front to back. So I am lucky.

If the jointer didn't weight so much I would probably go for one of the mini-jacks, since nothing else exceeds 1000 lbs in my shop.

Rob

[Kirk Poore]

I have a pallet jack, and some of my stuff is on mobile bases. Pallet jacks are better for heavier items--few commercial mobilie bases will handle a thousand pound machine. The primary drawback is the size. Mine has 5' forks, and that's just too long. If you're buying, go with something in the 3' fork range, unless you have a need right now for longer forks. You will need maneuvering room equivalent to your fork size.

I concur that a bandsaw would be tough to move with a pallet jack since they are usually top heavy and usually have small bases. You can have a custom base made, though, to fit your jack and give it that stability.

Mine used to live with the forks straddling my bandsaw. But since I've built my shop, it's partly under a workbench.

Kirk

[Cliff Holmes]

One thing you can also look at if you can handle a larger pallet jack are "dual direction" versions. If you lift them all the way up it tilts over onto a second set of perpendicular wheels, allowing you to move sideways instead of sawing back and forth to get the right position.

Overall, I think the minis are the best bet. I wish I'd bought this one from Grizzly (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Pallet-Jack-1-000-lb-/H6287) instead. In fact, it's on sale right now, I'll probably get one and sell my old one.

UPDATE: Ok, mine's on the way. Off to craigslist I go ...

[Lewis Cobb]

Another option is sort of a hybrid between casters and a pallet jack. Called a "semi live skid" - it's a mobile base like thing with 2 fixed wheels and 2 levelers. There's a little "hook" on the front of the base that allows you to place a lever bar that has a couple of casters on it and tilt the thing up and then steer it around with the lever bar. Some call them "Johnson" bars......a bit vulgar so I use the term lever bar :D

Here's a concept I have been sketching up for my shop. It does require some welding and metalfab but that's ok - why buy something for 100 dollars when you can build it for 140.....

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn286/LHC_02/Jointer/JointerSemiLiveSkidDesignMedium.jpg

[Cliff Holmes]

One other thought: I had the Great Lakes casters on my bandsaw and absolutely hated them. Unless your floor is really smooth, you have to raise the foot quite a bit or it'll catch every time the caster dips into a low spot. And raising/lowering the foot is slow and difficult. I have four of them if someone wants to make me an offer ...

[ian maybury]

Good stuff there guys. I posted because there seemed to be a bit of a 'you've gotta not just use casters, but also have 'X' caster to be cool' vibe developing on some other forums.

The posts have brought out very nicely the 'horses for courses' aspect of machine movement solutions - there's the beginnings of a good set of guidelines there. As usual it's a case of being very clear on needs/situation/advantages/disadvantages, and making intelligent fact based choices in figuring solutions based on these.

My situation is much like yours I think Cliff - a dodgy previously injured back, and working alone. For sure the one major disadvantage of the pallet truck is that it can be unstable in some loading/turning situations - the chassis can even twist. I discovered the bandsaw instability issue too :p. (fortunately without harm)

My sliding table panel saw will hopefully stay put, and hence in alignment. The shaper, planer thicknesser (only very occasionally) and bandsaw look like only needing to be moved in one direction in each case - to handle extra long workpieces.

I spent a lot of time with paper cut outs on a scale layout. Twisting the several machines lined up along one side of the shop about 20 deg away from straight line astern layout opened up an enormous amount of space - by making it possible for the respective infeed and outfeed areas to extend well past the previous/next machines. (if left in line astern the machines obstruct each other)

The layout fortunately means that this is the natural direction in which the forks are easily inserted, and the truck rolls.

The multi directional pallet truck is new to me, but sounds like it might get past what's at least one big difficulty with the solution - how hard they are to maneuver/position if you can't get where you need in a straight line, or by a simple three point turn using the steering.

I've not looked carefully at casters. One obvious caution with them from this range is that unless used with a strong base frame they will feed heavy point loads into whatever they are bolted to. Which may or may not be an issue depending on the situation.

ian

[Will Blick]

> why buy something for 100 dollars when you can build it for 140.....

this is just tooooo funny.... and its also the reason I buy lots of stuff I can build... sometimes just the material cost alone supersedes the cost of
the ready-made stuff...

then toss in mistakes, lead times to get the parts, your time, bad design (heck its your first try)...

For my shop, I went with ratcheted casters.... I can raise and lower the wheel relativley quickly... but not cheap, but the ease of movement is incredible vs. pallet jack. Having all 4 wheels swivel is an incredible advantage in tight spaces...

My biggest issue is lifting the machines to get the stands under them. An engine hoist is good for most low tools, but not for high tools like a 20"+ bandsaw... I used tripods from HF, and purchased a very thick 4x4" metal beam, worked well for all tools... still not easy, and a bit dangerous for the avg. weekend warrior.

I agree with an above poster also.... tool weight is a major issue... under ~600 lbs, its pretty easy....its the heavier tools 800lbs+ that beocome harder to deal with the movement issue. This is something most people overlook when buying tools. It seems 80%+ of wood workers are cramped for space and sooner or later must deal with the tool movement issue.

[Keith Outten]

I like the pallet jack idea, in fact if I was in the process of building a new stand for a machine I would design it to have pallet jack access points.

Now I am wondering why all of the machine manufacturers don't build their stands with pallet jack access as a standard feature. Every machine has to be moved, even if it is only once during the installation, so it makes perfect sense that machine stands include this kind of feature as a standard.

I dislike mobile bases, they just aren't stable enough for heavy machines in my opinion. Heavy duty caster's are the preferred method of adding mobility but they are expensive and add height to the tool that can be a problem for short people.

If Grizzly or any other manufacturer started providing pallet jack access points in all of their machine bases it would be a major plus in my mind and I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for the feature knowing that I would save money over purchasing casters. Moving a band saw with a pallet jack would be a snap if the stand had built-in access points because you wouldn't have to lift it but an eighth of an inch off the floor and it couldn't tip over.

Cliff, thanks for the link to the Mini Pallet Jack. I have been sitting here thinking about how I could modify my existing machine bases by welding two pieces of channel iron to the bottom of the base that will fit the mini pallet jack.
.

[Jim Becker]

If I were going to move my 1500' sliding table saw, I'd rent a pallet jack in a heartbeat. That's what I used to get it into place after delivery. For my other gear, most had mobility kits from the factory. I don't generally move anything around, however.

[Rod Sheridan]

Another option is sort of a hybrid between casters and a pallet jack. Called a "semi live skid" - it's a mobile base like thing with 2 fixed wheels and 2 levelers. There's a little "hook" on the front of the base that allows you to place a lever bar that has a couple of casters on it and tilt the thing up and then steer it around with the lever bar. Some call them "Johnson" bars......a bit vulgar so I use the term lever bar :D

Here's a concept I have been sketching up for my shop. It does require some welding and metalfab but that's ok - why buy something for 100 dollars when you can build it for 140.....

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn286/LHC_02/Jointer/JointerSemiLiveSkidDesignMedium.jpg


This is a photo of my B3 Winner, showing the wheels I added, as well as the tow bar attachment for the bar I use for both my Hammer machines.

The wheels on the B3 are from electrical power supplies that were scrapped, they're roller bearing wheels running on 5/8" inch shaft.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=88687&highlight=a3-31+mobile+base

The above link illustrates the semi-live skid mobile base I built for my A3-31 since the Hammer kit moved the planer in the wrong axis.

Regards, Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Lewis, your design is almost identical to the Vega mobile base that I keep around to move my Stubby lathe on very rare occasions. I can slide it apart into two ends to allow my to get it under the machine by jacking up one end at a time.

[John Petsche]

Great ides

[David Kumm]

Hi Ian, as you have noticed there are lots of different choices within each shop. Anything I can get a pallet jack to gets 3x4 blocks bolted to the base. Wheels with a lifting bar are particularly good if you just need to move things back and forth, and four casters work for lighter stuff. I found I could barely move my 2700 lb planer and found a used electric jack. It gets used more than the regular one. While the newer steel bandsaws are a little top heavy- due mainly to the cast iron upper wheel- the old cast iron ones were bottom heavy and not prone at all to tipping. My Oliver 116 moves easily with a pallet jack although it is pretty scary to watch something nine feet high lift off the ground. You do want to put something rubber under the skids as the pallet jack can drop stuff a little hard. Dave