Finishing red oak.

[Kent E. Matthew]

I am half way through a red oak dresser project and am beginning to consider finishing techniques. In the past I have always sanded, stained, and applied the polyurethane. Five coats later sanding in between each coat I still have not ever achieved a smooth finish. Any comments or tips would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Neil Brooks]

Stolen ... RIGHT from SamAllen.com:


Hardwood
Open-grained, ring-porous
Color: Reddish tan
Finishing characteristics: Red oak has a beautiful grain and natural color. It looks very nice when given a clear penetrating oil finish. Its large pores are concentrated in the darker parts of the grain pattern. The unfilled pores add a nice texture to the finish. If you want a darker color; red oak accepts dark stains well. The stain will accumulate in the open pores, accentuating the grain pattern with a pleasing effect. A dark colored penetrating oil is a good finish when you want a dark oak.
The large poles of red oak are hard to fill with paste wood filler; so it is usually not a good choice for a high-gloss finish. Even after you applied filler; some of the texture will show. If you want to varnish the wood, use satin varnish. You can apply filler before varnishing to make the pores less noticeable, but some texture will usually still show through the top coat.

HTH,
Neil

[Paul Ryan]

If you want completely smooth finish like a table top you have to fill the pores of red oak. It is too course grained to fill just with finish in my experience. I used to spray poly and dont mind it, I was able to get consistent smoother finish. I have since progressed to conversion varnish (gem-var) a gemini product sold by my diamond vogel. It is much easier than poly because it dries much faster. I just sprayed 5 doors and by the time I got done with the last door I could start all over again. Dust is less of an issue because of the fast dry time, and you dont have to sand between coats. Draw backs it is very toxic, you must spray in very ventilated area, and use organic respirator.

[Prashun Patel]

Here's my take on an oak dresser:

Use a pore filler on the top only. You may require multiple applications. Sometimes, I find porefiller so messy and hard to squeegie off without pulling it out of the pores (it's akin to applying grout to tiles), that I prefer to do an initial fill coat to get it to 75%, and then to use shellac to fill the rest. You put on the shellac thick, let it dry, then sand it all back to flat. It's more work, but easier work for me.

Beacause pore filling is a pain, I wouldn't recommend it on the sides and fronts, where the aesthetic benefits would be minimal. A satin finish applied to the whole piece will make the top and sides indistinguishable visually, but will leave the top totally smooth.

I'd brush on the top coat, since a) satin finishes are hard for me to wipe, and b) the thicker top coat will complete any pore filling that you might have missed in prev steps.

FWIW, I once achieved a 100% flat gloss finish on an oak bench with minwax polyurethane. It just took about 9 brushed on coats to get there...

[David Prince]

Sand with steel wool between coats and add a bit of thinner to your poly and you will get a nice smooth finish.

[Prashun Patel]

Sand with steel wool between coats and add a bit of thinner to your poly and you will get a nice smooth finish.

David, I respect your own experience with this, but I will offer mine as a counter: thinning the poly makes filling and building take much longer. I believe your best bet is to brush on the sfc's where you're pore filling.

I also believe steel wool is not a good choice for anything but the final rubbing out (if you decide to even do that). If you use steel wool, then use a few rare earth magnets wrapped in a paper towel to remove all the sanding shards.

[glenn bradley]

Five coats later sanding in between each coat I still have not ever achieved a smooth finish.

Grain filler as mentioned. This is the way to deal with red oak if you want a smooth surface. Otherwise, enjoy the pores and the interest they add to that type of surface. Both are wonderful to look at, it is a matter of preference.

[Jeff Monson]

I am half way through a red oak dresser project and am beginning to consider finishing techniques. In the past I have always sanded, stained, and applied the polyurethane. Five coats later sanding in between each coat I still have not ever achieved a smooth finish. Any comments or tips would be appreciated. Thanks.

I think you should maybe clarify "smooth finish", pores in red oak definately detour from a smooth finish, or it could be your finishing schedule. Obtaining a smooth to the touch finish is not hard with the right finishing schedule...on the other hand smooth like glass (no visible pores) is more work, and should be done before topcoating.

If you are looking for a smooth to the touch finish, then spraying is the best option. If you dont have spray equipment then I'd look into a good wipe on product, as poly with a brush can be difficult (is for me anyways). If I'm spraying I use mostly water based laquer, very easy to obtain a smooth finish, 2 coats then light sanding with 320, then 2 more coats sanding between each last coat. If I plan on a hand finish, I use wipe on poly, or arm-r-seal, the only drawback with wipe on finish is that you are putting on less material per coat.....but its very easy to obtain a very smooth finish.

For a dressor, I'd personally skip any pore filling, except for the top if anything.

[Caleb Larru]

The only way I have got a smooth finish on red oak is by shooting the finish on. About three coat of poly slightly thinned and shot on with an HVLP and it's as smooth as glass.

[Michael MacDonald]

here is something I did with red oak, and I liked the way it turned out... perhaps there is a hidden flaw that I have not seen... so this thread has been interesting to me.

I have some old red oak stair treads that I have been milling down to usable lumber (they were pretty beat-up). First thing I did was make a small hall table.

For a very simple finish, I put watco danish oil with a medium walnut tint on... I think I sanded up to 220 prior to that. Then I continue to add the danish oil while I wetsanded with 220... for about 30 minutes or so... perhaps a bit longer.

while it is not a glossy top protected with a layer of finish, I think it is pretty smooth. I am just about finished with a second table now. I am going to go up to 420 grit for that and see how it turns out.

[Tony Bilello]

I assume by a 'smooth finish' you are refering to filled pores and ultimately a flat surface. As others have suggested, a paste wood grain filler is the only practical way to do this. The grain filler should be at least as dark or darker than the average color of the pores. Our eyes are accustomed to seeing holes, caves, cracks, shadows etc as dark and it would not be soft and pleasing to the eye if they were lighter.
Begin by applying stain if you dont want the natural color. Then begin the 'process':

First, apply an even wet coat of primer or sealer and do not sand. Grain filler should go on after the primer or sealer. If the sealer went on first, the pigment in the sealer would stain all of the wood and this in most cases is not be desirable. The paste wood filler is kinda like a very thickish paint so brush it on along the grain one time. Then start applying across the grain untill the pores are filled. While it is still wet, work a burlap rag rigorously across the grain going back and forth and forcing the filler into the pores. While you are doing this, you will notice the quasi-liquid filler being cleaned and abosrbed by the burlap rag leaving a fairly clean surface. If you go along the grain, you will be pulling the filler right back out again.
You have to work reasonably fast because the filler will flash off pretty fast.
When the filler has flashed off and you are sure it is dry, lightly sand the surface. You will be sanding off the unwanted filler on the surface of the primer and leaving only the pores filled. Normally you should only have to do this one time. If the pores are not filled completely, give a second application. No more than that should be necessary. Now add your finishing coats and they should be reasonably flat.
If you are going for a natural look without staining, the sanding part is easy because you dont have to worry about sanding through the primer and cutting into the stain.
Some people prefer to start by sealing/priming the raw wood, then filling and sanding the surface thoroughly to remove all surface traces of the primer. then going ahead and staining. The potential problem here is that the solvents in the stain may pull out some of the filler if you are not careful in applying the stain. This problem can be avoided if the stain is lightly sprayed on. Personally, I don't like this method for the above reason.

P.S. Always make sure the paste wood grain filler is compatable with the stains and finish you are applying.

[Nathan Allen]

Dewaxed Shellac and your compatable/durable finish of choice over it.

In my opinion fillers tend to muddle oak's greatest feature - intense grain patterns.