Source for lignum vitae

[Leigh Betsch]

Anyone have a good source for lignum vitae that will ship? I'm building a couple of woodies and I think I'd like to make the sole out of lignum vitae. I've got another plane with a lignum vitae sole and I like the way it glides.
I seems to have some built in lubrication, probably mutton tallow:rolleyes:.

[Dale Sautter]

Leigh, I would give Jim MacDermot a ring at GilmerWood. Their site isn't really search friendly, but they are a good source: scroll down ~1/2 way down on this page (http://www.gilmerwood.com/new_unique3.htm). Tell them what you want and how dry it needs to be and they'll give you an honest answer. Don't know if you've tried Vera wood?... I have a couple older woodies (made them ~10 yrs ago or so) which are Vera-soled, and they have held up pretty well. Nice slick/smooth stuff for a sole, and I know Gilmer has it too. Third, Crosscut Hardwoods - Portland Or, has Ipe decking material for a really decent price, it's like 4" wide, 1" thick... whatever length. Ipe is some really tough stuff, maybe you have a local source for it?...

But if you're stuck on lignum... Gilmer has it, but just remembered that they have a $100 minimum order for shipping.

[Vince Shriver]

Lignum v. is a naturally oily, very hard wood (it doesn't even float). It used to be used as a bushing for propeller shafts in old civil war vintage steam vessels, and of course for plane soles.

The blow that struck the Confederate cruiser Georgia on that fateful evening in 1864 came from no enemy gunner. Instead, the awesome burst and devastating shrapnel was from shattering wood.
During the early days of oceangoing steamships, shipyards made many engine cogs and shafts of lignum vitae, an iron-tough wood so heavy it sinks in water. Unfortunately, crews found out that the wood also comes apart under extreme pressure when combined with more than 150� heat -- as was created in the engine room when the Georgia mate stoked the fire through the open boiler door.
Incidences such as this caused shipbuilders to abandon lignum vitae in machinery aboard surface vessels. However, because sea water naturally lubricates the wood, lignum vitae was adopted as the material for silent-running propeller shaft bearings in submarines and has only recently been displaced by space-age substances.
Above sea level, lignum vitae's remarkable hardness made it perfect for chopping blocks, block-and-tackle assemblies, and casters. Early woodworking tool manufacturers relied on the wood for mallets, plane soles, and bandsaw guide blocks. And, should you happen on a bowling ball from the 1800s, expect that it, too, will be rollable, rockhard lignum vitae.

[Steve Peterson]

Argentine Lignum Vitae is supposedly a close substitution for true Lignum Vitae. I bought some to use as bearings for a clock, but haven't cut it up yet.

The real stuff is probably restricted except for existing stock.

Rockler sells Argentine turning blanks that might be large enough for a plane sole. There is also a guy on Ebay (ddwood0_1) selling large pieces of true and Argentine varieties with buy-it-now prices.

Steve

[george wilson]

I think lignum is now VERY expensive. And,I've never had a piece of it that wouldn't shrink and crack after you got the thick wax off of it. It always comes dipped in thick wax.

[David Weaver]

How is the sole going to be affixed to the plane?

There are some folks on ebay who sell wood and specify it as dry, and others who specify it with a moisture content (no idea how they get it).

The best I've found is low double digits, which is something to set aside for a while.

I guess a plus with it if it is wet that even if it cracks some, the shrinkage will be low. Whether or not it's low enough to not matter on a plane bottom, who knows? If it's thick and new, no matter how it's advertised, I wouldn't trust it to be dry. If you could find an old board or part of something broken that you can get enough wood off of, it'd probably be better.

Of the four cocobolo/rosewood planes I've made, three were with newer wood that was advertised as dry, and one was from a billet of very old rosewood. The old billet was more dry and nice to work than any of the newer stuff that was advertised as dried (including one of the pieces advertised as air dried). I would only work with old wood like that (for planes) if I could find it, it was worlds different. The three other "dry" but not so old (oldest was 5 years old, but not waxed) blanks all cracked as george describes, which was disappointing.

[Leigh Betsch]

I did a little digging around and found a piece of straight grained purpleheart in my stash that I think I'll use for this one. I did call Glimer Wood, nice guys but the $100 minimum is a killer for a block plane sole.

[David Weaver]

I think you're making a smart choice. It would be difficult to wear off a purpleheart sole, and I'm sure your boards are drier.

[Steve knight]

getting it dry woulds be the first trick. it takes forever to fully dry into a usable form. second is how to attach it? glue does not really stick to it. (though I found hot melt poly worked but it is not practical) plus it does not move like regular woods so it may come off.
then of course the cost of the stuff.
vera is pretty close and far less money and glues up a little better. Plus it smells great it is a very sweet wood and the sawdust is more like a clumping thing it does not make fine dust.
ipe is the next best for cost. I have used it in thousands of planes and it works well. cocobolo will work well too but it is another one hard to find dry.

[Don Ziolkowski]

Anyone have a good source for lignum vitae that will ship?


http://www.lignum-vitae.com/

[Leigh Betsch]

Don, thanks for the link. I've done quite a bit of internet searching. Interesting stuff, expensive and everyone seems to have a minimum order for shipping, understandable.
Dale Sautter is going to send me a piece of Vera so I can give it a try. Probably on the next plane since I've already cut a piece of purpleheart for this plane sole.
Gluing was going to be my next question to the experts here. No problems with the purpleheart, I plan to use Titebond II. But for the vera I was thinking that I should groove the sole like ECE does for their lignum soles. As for the glue any suggestions?
Steve, the misc steel that I bought from you last year; do you remember what type of steel the red marked drops are? How about the un-hardened blade blanks are they O1? I have a blade for this plane but the next one I'll need to pull something out of the Knight box. I have a local tool and die shop that will do the heat treating or I may try the DIY method George has commented on if it is O1.

[Scott Stafford]

Should you decide you need som lignum vitae, my local Windsor Plywood has a pretty good selection in stock. That's right, Windsor Plywood in Great Falls, MT!!! Who knows what they were thinking when they ordered it.

Anyhow, they've had it for a couple years. They have 4/4, 5/4, and 8/4 if I remember right with lengths from a couple feet to maybe six feet. They will cut to your desired length and quantity. I think it is around $20 per board foot. Most of it was very good looking stock.

Their number is (406) 452-1956, and I think you would want to talk to Mike. And remember, no sales tax in Montana.

No affiliation, BTW

Scott in Montana

[Leigh Betsch]

thanks Scott. I just ordered 4.6 bft of 8/4 stuff, figured I could resaw plenty of plane soles out of it as well as make a mallet or two! Should keep me in lignum vitae for a long time.
Now onto "How the heck am I going to glue this stuff?"

[Terry Beadle]

I bought a piece of lignum several years ago. I keep slicing a 3/8th's thick cutting off the side of it when ever I build a plane. I've had success with wiping it down with naptha and then gluing it with Titebond2. I do the gluing and treatment right after I cut the sole piece. So far, it's stayed glued to the body of the planes for over 2 yrs on one and over 5 yrs on another.

I trust Steve Knight's judgement though. I think he uses Ipe for his soles with good results. The razee jack plane I have of his rides quickly across the wood as Ipe also has some natural lubricant but not as much as lignum.

Good Luck and happy shavings !!

[Dale Sautter]

Ditto to Terry's advice on wiping it down with something before glue. It's been awhile, but I think that I remember using alcohol first then West System epoxy, naptha would probably best though. There's a pic wrapped around the Vera showing how I also employed a mechanical perch to ride in (think wide dado). And dittos on Steve's description on routing/machining Vera... very pleasant stuff to work with/smell/plane with, can only imagine lignum being even betterer. :)

[Leigh Betsch]

Thanks for the info fellas.

Mike do you remember what type of glue you used on the plane I bought from you a few years ago? I'm pretty sure you said the sole was lignum vitae.

[Steve knight]

LV is nothing thrilling smelling. vera man I loved how it made my whole shop smell good and no need for dust masks.
when I was making my low rider planes I had some with lv soles. they were so slick doing edge work it was hard to keep them from sliding right off the edge.
it is hard to know when LV is fully dry and ready to use. it reads something like 18 on my pinless meter.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for the info fellas.

Mike do you remember what type of glue you used on the plane I bought from you a few years ago? I'm pretty sure you said the sole was lignum vitae.
I'm pretty sure I just used standard PVA. The LV was fairly fresh cut.

Mike

[Don Ziolkowski]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] Interesting stuff, expensive and everyone seems to have a minimum order for shipping, understandable.


Now that I think about it, I believe I tracked down a few small pieces from Bell Forest Products... and they did not have a minimum order.

However, it may have been Argentine...

[Frank Drew]

A friend brought me back a chunk that had been part of the doorway lintel in an old, tumbledown abandoned building on one of the Caribbean islands; no problem with checking or cracking here, as old as it probably is.

[Ron Petley]

I used a piece in mine and it has been fine for a year now, maybe just a inset would be enough, and you would get more millage out of your piece.
Cheers Ron
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f333/mookie098/P1012875.jpg