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John Daake
07-28-2010, 12:15 PM
I've been reading up on hand planes in preparation for buying my first one or two. I've seen a lot about Lie Nielsen, Veritas and Clifton, but I came across a line of planes -- British, I think -- that I haven't heard or read anything about. E.C. Emmerich Primus planes is the line, and they are at least a little less pricey than the others. Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with these planes?
Thanks for any advice.

Don Dorn
07-28-2010, 12:37 PM
There is going to be allot of opinions here. It's all what you like, a friend has one you speak of and it's a nice plane, but the woodies are simply not for me. In my own opinon - I think the best bang for the buck is the Veritas. I have two of those and a few LNs.

Yes - they are spendy, but I've come to look at it this way. I won't be looking elsewhere for a better quality plane to replace what I have and they retain thier values very well. When I'm done with them, my wife will be able to recover much of what they cost which in the end, makes them a fairly inexpensive planes of high quality.

I may get myself in some hot water here, but I have a LV Low Angle Smoother and the LV Jointer. Both give me results that are every bit as good as my LNs. I'm about to add a good Jack to the stable and will go with the LV BU model.

If you want the Primus - go for it, but know that the expense of the others you are looking at are not so bad in the long run. The last point is that no matter what plane you buy, you need to learn to sharpen them well and prefereably quickly - find a method that works for you and stick with it. Not doing so means you will have a sharp tool a very short time.

David Weaver
07-28-2010, 12:46 PM
No experience with them.

The iron in them is a bit lacking (based on what it's made of vs. what else is out there these days) for a plane in their price range, and they don't seem to sell very fast in the S&S.

Plus, they are a euro continental style plane. The position of the iron is different - right in the middle of the plane. Some people don't like the feel.

You can find out if you do with a full size muji continental smoother for $50, made of ebony, as long as you don't mind sharpening a HSS iron (it'd be sharp enough to use out of the box to try) and doing without the adjuster.

Joel Goodman
07-28-2010, 2:02 PM
As has been mentioned they are woodys with a few wrinkles. I have the model with the adjustable mouth and the "regulator" which is a unique adjuster which has zero backlash as it is a threaded rod working against a spring. They are German and I do like the ergonomics, although they are lighter than metal planes. I agree that the iron is not LN quality. But if I was picking a first "good" plane I would get the LN low angle BU jack with 2 irons. It is lighter and smaller than the LV jack and can double as a smoother. It is a lot simpler to get working well than the ECEs.

Gary Hodgin
07-28-2010, 2:04 PM
E.C.E. Primus is a German plane. I have an Improved Primus Smooth plane that I bought on ebay several years ago for around $100-$125. The plane was in great shape (little use) but I disassembled the plane to sharpen the blade and couldn't get the thing back together. I posted my disappointment about the complex assembly on one of the boards and got a reply with directions (not included with my ebay plane). It was actually pretty easy, just different from any other plane I had dealt with. Afterwards, the plane worked great. As mentioned above, the blade is not as thick (not sure of the type of steel) as you'll find in LV, LN, and some of the other premium planes, but the E.C.E. is a premium plane.

It's a good plane, and works well in tough grain. It has a higher pitch than the standard, the iron is pitched at 50 degrees. My primary smoother is a LN 5.5 with York pitch. I like the size and weight of the 5.5 over the normal smoother, but I use the E.C.E. on small stuff. It feels like a feather compared to the 5.5.

IMHO, the choice between a wooden and metal plane is personal. I doubt there much difference in the way of performance. If I were in the market, I doubt I'd pay the price for a new E.C.E. given the other options out there. If you like BU planes, the LV and LN planes are very good and go for about what a new Primus smoother runs. A cheaper wooden alternative would be Steve Knight's (Knight-Tools) smoother. I don't have one, but I do have a couple of his other planes, including his 30" jointer which is a great plane. His woodies don't have metal adjustments but operate well (have premium blades and are well built). Bottom line is you've got to decide, wooden vs. metal, and bevel up vs. bevel down.
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/planes_nt.htm

george wilson
07-28-2010, 2:08 PM
I had one of those for many years in the toolmaking shop. Somehow I never liked it. If I wanted a good woodie(already have a bunch),I saw a very nice one on Ebay in the collectible tools section. It was an old ,typical English coffin shape smoother. No cracks anywhere. In very fine condition.

I am sure it is sold by now,but planes like that will not cost as much as the Primus,and to me,would be a more desirable plane.

John Daake
07-28-2010, 4:34 PM
Thanks for the good advice. I haven't picked up and pushed a wood-based plane, but I think my built-in bias is for the metal. It sounds like certain features of the Primus planes, like limited adjustability, would be better in the hands of those already proficient rather than the one just getting started. Low angle in the LN or LV families sounds like the place to start. Thanks again.

Tony Shea
07-28-2010, 4:50 PM
Also, if you're into woodies at all you can always learn to build one. They take a little time and precision to build but certainly are worth the effort. I would reccomend getting yourself a decent metal plane to start off with, learn to use and enjoy it, then contemplate making yourself a woodie (Krenov style being my preference). They aren't as hard to make as one would think but do require some precision in certain areas and maybe a little fettling once together. But once they are together they are much more versatile than a standard Stanley style bench plane. The way the are held being the primary advantage as compared to a handled bench plane.

george wilson
07-28-2010, 5:56 PM
The Primus has a lignum vitae sole,and adjustable mouth. I personally don't care for the way they grip their blade,but that's just my prejudice,not necessarily even factual. It shouldn't sway you from making your own choice. I prefer a properly fitted wedge.

I had a German Ulmia plane with lignum sole and wedge back in 1964. I used it,but gave it away eventually. I just didn't like the way it looked. That may be a silly reason,I admit. But,when I pick up a tool,I want it to be attractive to me,and make me feel like using it. Coming to Williamsburg upgraded many of my former ideas about what was nice looking.

All this does sound trivial,I know,but in a way it isn't. I like my tools to make me want to use them.

Martin Cash
07-29-2010, 1:16 AM
These planes have a lot to recommend them.
For a start the lignum vitae sole on some models simply glides over the wood.
Secondly, while the blade fixing mechanism is quirky, the fully supported bed and the blade tensioner virtually guarantee no chatter.
The adjustable mouth is a boon as it can allow for very fine shavings.
I have the 711 improved smoother which I really like and use for final smoothing on softer wood. I have a Terry Gordon Smoother which I prefer for harder timbers such as our Australian hardwoods.
The one disadvantage with the ECE Primus is their sale price when new. I considered this to be too high and had to wait a couple of years for one to come along second hand.
Other than that, I highly recommend the smoothers. I think that there are probably better value planes out there for other purposes.
Cheers
MC

Terry Beadle
07-30-2010, 3:58 PM
I've got one in jack plane size. It's a good plane. The blade is good German steel and will keep a reasonable edge. It's very predictable for setting the shaving depth once you figure out how to adjust the spring and nut that's on the end of the threaded bar that holds the blade and cap iron assembly.

If I had to choose between it and a 5 1/2 LN or #6 LV, it would be a hair pulling session and a coin flip. However, the steel planes will out live the woody. It would be a real challenge to re-sole the lignum. However, It would take several generations of weekend warrior woodworking advocates before it would need a re-soleing IMO.

Keep in mind a Steve Knight jack will outperform it and can be re-soled more easily as needed and has a more adjustable mouth.

Don't we live in great times ! It's a woodworker's shopping paradise.

James Connors
07-30-2010, 5:52 PM
I've been reading up on hand planes in preparation for buying my first one or two. I've seen a lot about Lie Nielsen, Veritas and Clifton, but I came across a line of planes -- British, I think -- that I haven't heard or read anything about. E.C. Emmerich Primus planes is the line, and they are at least a little less pricey than the others. Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with these planes?
Thanks for any advice.
I have Stanley, Millers Falls, Record - metal smoothers, jack, and jointer planes. I also have E.C. Emmerich Primus wooden (West Germany) smothers, jointer. Another wooden I have is a scrub made for me by Steve Knight. They all do a great job because of the time put in tuning and honing. I have to say that I find myself reaching for the woodies quite often because I love the feel of the wood. When I plane I always cut the music so I can enjoy the sound of the cut.

Stephen Cherry
07-30-2010, 10:59 PM
I've got a primus 704p that I picked up at a yard sale. Best 23 dollars I have spent on a plane (the price included a stanley block plane). It took about 30 minutes to regrind the blade, but it shaves hair and wood very well. I am not a plane expert, but I like it as well as my Lie neilson 4. I think that it has a little higher angle also.

john brenton
08-02-2010, 10:41 AM
many good woodies out there that I would avoid a new one. Plus, with an older woody you get a better iron out of the deal. They are easy to flatten and a joy to work with. Why not spend the $20 on a good old woody and $30 on a good old Stanley and see which one you like better?

I have two sets of planes, steel and wood. I use them both, some wood just seems to beg to be worked with a wood plane.


I've been reading up on hand planes in preparation for buying my first one or two. I've seen a lot about Lie Nielsen, Veritas and Clifton, but I came across a line of planes -- British, I think -- that I haven't heard or read anything about. E.C. Emmerich Primus planes is the line, and they are at least a little less pricey than the others. Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with these planes?
Thanks for any advice.

Dan Karachio
08-03-2010, 7:00 PM
When I plane I always cut the music so I can enjoy the sound of the cut.

A long time ago an Italian told me Ferraris don't come with sound systems because the sound of the engine is the most pure musical tone ever. Of course that is bunk, but your post reminded me of this.