Am I insane....

[Trey Palmer]

Hi. i'm new.

Wanted to try fine woodworking.

Like history. Don't have much room.

Bought planes on ebay.

Learned to sharpen. Kinda.

Building workbench.

Bought SYP for top.

All of that I can deal with. Kind of. I guess.

The real problem is....

I just ripped the first benchtop strip off a 2x10x8' SYP board by hand.
Just to see how hard it was.

As expected, it's not easy. It took me 45 minutes including considerable rest time, using a 14" 14TPI crosscut Sharksaw. I'd guess you could do it a lot faster with practice and the right saw, sawbench, etc.
That might actually be acceptable.

So, like, assuming the lack of stationary power tools, would the rest of you evil insane people keep ripping them by hand, or would you use a circ saw and guide? If (A), what kind of saw would you use?

And, uhhhh, thanks! I guess. :rolleyes:

[Carl Maeda-San Diego]

Not sure what a Sharksaw is but It'll go a lot faster if you rip it using a rip saw with something like 8 or 10 TPI.
If you sharpen the saw further, it will cut better too. Most saws could at least use a little sharpening unless you get a premium brand saw.
SYP is hard for a pine too.
It just takes practice.
I'm not sure a circular saw has the depth needed to make the cut unless the workbench isn't that deep. You'll likely need several passes too.

[glenn bradley]

Tailed tools are not the devil. I use a Porter Cable Mag 324 but if you are not looking for a finished edge (that is; you intend to hand plane to finish) there are cheaper circ saws that will do the job. I would look for something used if you are going Neander as you probably won't use it much.

[Leigh Betsch]

I've got a $12,000 table saw, a $2500 band saw, and a couple of $100 hand saws. Sanity is a relative term and those inside the sport are totally un-capable of an objective opinion. So no you are not insane, you just need to get more tools, tailed or un-tailed. And if anyone ever says you've got to be sane to be in this sport please send them to me or anyone else here that has gone down the slipper plane slope!

[Dave Matson]

Ripping big boards by hand is not for the feint of heart (seriously it can give you a heart attack), but I would definitely keep at it since its great exercise and offers substantial bragging rights. You will be cleaning up the workbench top/bottom with a handplane anyway so surface finish should not be a big problem.
Sounds like a 14" 14tpi saw is too small for the job. The sharksaws seen on google are pull saws and have impulse hardened teeth so they cannot be resharpened easily. Try getting a 4-5tpi rip saw. If its a bit dull you can re-sharpened it and learn a new skill.

I tried using a keystone timber saw to rip some 4x7 green cypress beams a few days ago and it worked well, but still took probably 20 minutes per board.

[Trey Palmer]

I have a reasonably good circ saw (and an unused new Freud blade). What I don't have is a place inside where the dust it generates is reasonable, and it was both dark and raining. :cool: Dust control and convenience are leading me towards Festool -- but that's a dangerous non-sequitur in multiple ways.

Shark is an inexpensive brand of Japanese style pull saw, but many/most models have western style plastic handles. I bought a "general carpentry saw" model based on stellar Amazon reviews and, with the caveat that I've never used a sharp Disston or equivalent, it's the first handsaw of any type I've ever found enjoyable to use. I love it for cross-cutting and it will also rip a few feet of 3/4" thick stock quickly enough that I wouldn't even consider dealing with a circular saw instead. I am getting better at keeping it straight. I bought a more expensive bamboo-handled rip/cross-cut Ryoba at Highland Hardware, but the Shark Saw is much better even for ripping at least in my incapable hands.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Welcome to Sawmill creek Trey. You need a rip saw. Ripping is a lot of work, but it's pretty satisfying. A 14 tpi crosscut saw in that application would be very frustrating. You need fewer, larger teeth per inch for a more aggressive cut, and they need to be filed rip.

[Trey Palmer]

Sounds like a 14" 14tpi saw is too small for the job. The sharksaws seen on google are pull saws and have impulse hardened teeth so they cannot be resharpened easily. Try getting a 4-5tpi rip saw. If its a bit dull you can re-sharpened it and learn a new skill.

I tried using a keystone timber saw to rip some 4x7 green cypress beams a few days ago and it worked well, but still took probably 20 minutes per board.

Thanks Dave. I'm sure the saw is too small for the job. I like the ease of keeping the pullsaw online, but the dust obscures the cut line and has to be blown off constantly. I brushed the dust out of the way the first time, then after stanching the bleeding and finding a band-aid decided that was not the way to go. :D

The bragging rights thing is definitely involved. I don't anticipate using tailed tools on any other part of the bench project.

[Trey Palmer]

Welcome to Sawmill creek Trey. You need a rip saw. Ripping is a lot of work, but it's pretty satisfying. A 14 tpi crosscut saw in that application would be very frustrating. You need fewer, larger teeth per inch for a more aggressive cut, and they need to be filed rip.

Thanks Jonathan.

I think if I could do each rip in 10-15 minutes I'd be more than satisfied to do it that way. It's a hobby, and I need the workout. Is that a reasonable expectation?

Would you get an old Disston, or a frame saw?

[David Martino]

Trey-

As an advanced-newbie, my thoughts:

1) No, insane would be stopping before you finished. Completing the cut takes guts!

2) 45 minutes is a long time. Too long, unless you're in it for the exercise.

3) It sounds like you have the wrong saw for the job... too short, and too fine at 14tpi, and too crosscut. If it's one of those contractor saws with impulse hardened teeth, they're pretty crude for any job and not made for what you're doing. You have several options.

4) Use a circular (or other powered) saw. No harm unless you've taken a vow of some kind. Lots of hand tool users turn to spinning motors for stock prep and anything else inconvenient. (Almost all my lighting is electron driven, for instance.) Even Chris Schwarz says so:

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Using+A+Sawbench.aspx

5) Find a handsaw made for the job. New or old, it should be more like 28" long, filed rip, and closer to 5 tpi. Either option (new/old) sounds you down different lanes, each pleasant in its own way.

6) New: Seems there are only two qualities of saw out there: lousy - anything you find at most hardware stores or mass manufactured - and superior (Wenzloff, Lie-Nielsen, not sure if any of the other hand saw gurus are making full-sized saws?). There's no middle ground. And the ones worth buying can be $$$ for someone just starting out. Worth every penny IMEHOP, but a lotta pennies. If you got 'em, this is the quickest way to get sawing. Especially because it will come properly sharpened and set.

7) Vintage: Before powered saws every cut made in a house or ship or newly constructed donut factory was sawn by hand. Hence, hand saws were plentiful, sold by the dozen in fact. Sharpened frequently, used up, replaced. Quality from major suppliers was generally very high - people made their living with these things. So there are a gajillion old saws floating out there, in garage sales, ebay etc. Disston, Atkins, Simonds and others. Many are rusty and need sharpening or other restoration. Which is a hobby in itself, if you want to learn the arts. Plenty of info on this forum, the above cited Mr. Schwarz, vintagesaws.com, and elsewhere to get you started. If OTOH you want a tool ready to use, my advice would be to keep an eye on the classifieds here, or post a wanted to buy message. The learning curve on sharpening/restoring can be long, and you won't know when you're there without a standard to compare to. If you buy a properly tuned/sharpened D-8 or other rip (they're pretty common) from one of the kind gentlemen or ladies around here, you'll be sawing in no time, and will also learn how a good saw works.

Good luck,

Dave

[Rick Markham]

Ripping long boards by hand is not my cup of tea personally, Heck I don't even enjoy crosscutting wide boards. No shame in using a circular saw... Mad props for sticking with the board for 45 mins! I love my handtools, and the experience I get from using them... I personally find very little pleasure in ripping with a handsaw. I cheat... Festool or Tablesaw depending on the size of the board in question. If ya do continue by hand... definitely a rip saw (crosscut saws make lousy rip saws, rip saws can be respectable at crosscutting) and do yourself a favor and get a big box of Snickers bars :D

[Jim Koepke]

Trey,

Welcome to the mad house. No, you are not insane. If you lived around here I would be happy to loan you a good rip saw to try. Since you are using SYP, I guess you are likely a thousand miles or more from here.

There is nothing wrong in using power if ya got it.

Maybe a little insane using a crosscut saw for a rip cut. But not much, people do it all the time. A rip saw will work better as a crosscut than a crosscut will as a rip. You also want less teeth per inch for doing the heavy stuff.

For me, it seems with 3/4 inch pine, an 8' piece can be ripped quicker by hand and with less hassle than trying to feed it through my band saw. If there was a good way to hold a board and guide my circular saw, then I might try that. My most recent cuts were made with an old D7 at about 7 tpi it came from a friend. He did not get all the teeth the same height, but it still cuts straight.

Someone mentioned keeping the saw dust off the line. My experience is that it helps to work your breathing with your cutting so you are blowing the saw dust away as you saw. My neighbors probably think there is an old steam engine in my shop when the saw gets going.

jim

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

Hey, welcome!

Others have mentioned this, but basically a 14 pt crosscut is the wrong tool for the job, which is why it took so much time and was so arduous. For something like that I actually use a 5 pt rip, and it's still work but it's not as much of an ordeal. Or if I have a lot of it to do (say, making mouldings) I use a b*nds*w. Where you can find one is a little stickier; I get them off eBay but I know how to sharpen them and (more important, I find) straighten them.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

I have both (too many) Disstons and a frame saw, and the problem that I've found is that a 26" frame saw tends to have its balance point too far forward, which means it stresses my wrist out. I haven't figured out how to fix this problem yet. They can be got for relative cheap, though, and it's probably the least expensive way to get a 5 tpi rip blade. I prefer traditional Western handsaws like the Disston because of the wrist problem.

Basically either will work. The frame saws have very real advantages sometimes (and at the same time have a hard time with wide boards and plywood), and if they didn't hurt me to use them I would probably still be using mine. Tage Frid has a technique for doing long rips at the bench that would probably work out better than one-handing something that big.

[Dan Andrews]

When I set my mind to do an all hand tool project, I use a Diston D-8 26" 5 PPI (points per inch) hand saw. It is about 100 years old and in very good condition (no bends, no rust pits). I did invest in tools and practice which has enabled me to sharpen it fairly well. I also waxed the blade. This saw has made ripping as practical as crosscutting lumber. I have never cut 4" hardwood, but for lesser boards it moves right along well enough to be encouraging not discouraging.

Saw sharpening may be more than you want to tackle before you finnish your workbench right now. In my area there is at least one good saw sharpening person. It may pay you to buy a good used rip saw and pay to have it sharpened the first time.

[David Weaver]

Just keep your eye out for a good straight rip saw, doesn't matter what brand it is.

The D-8 thumbhole saws are nice, but some people who sell them seem to think they're rare or something. I've gotten two for $25 (total). Full sawplate, all the teeth and straight with no kinks. Surface rust or that kind of stuff and no etch is to your benefit as a buyer because it doesn't make a difference in how the saw works once cleaned and it keeps the collectors away.

It's nice to have two separate rip saws, one for 8/4 stock and one for 4/4 or 5/4 stock. 4 or so tpi is nice on 8/4 stock.

It should take several minutes to rip a board that long if your saw is sharp and you know what you're doing, maybe a reasonable uumph rate is between a foot and two feet per minute, never timed it, but it doesn't seem to take long, and I think a foot a minute is even slow.

[Chris Griggs]

No your not insane. I recently resawed a 4 foot long 10 inch wide cherry board with a beautiful old, but unfortunately too dull, Disston rip saw. It lituraly took about 4+ hours.

Bad Axe Tool Works (Google them) sells old saws that have been rehabbed. They'll cost you more than $100, but they will be less than a new premium rip.

Although my recommendation, if you have the money, a little outdoor space, and not overly sensitive neighbors, is to get a decent quality portable table saw (Dewalt or Bosch; I use the Dewalt DW745). A portable tablesaw won't perform like a large one, but for straight rips they work very well and if you lack space you can store it inside and use it outside. I also lack indoor space, and while I do most my work by hand these days, it's hard to beat a table saw for long rip cuts.

(P.S. My fellow Neanders, please do grant me your forgiveness for recommending the use of a power tools on this forum:D)

[Jonathan McCullough]

Thanks Jonathan.

I think if I could do each rip in 10-15 minutes I'd be more than satisfied to do it that way. It's a hobby, and I need the workout. Is that a reasonable expectation?

Would you get an old Disston, or a frame saw?

Hmm. As to time, I was replacing some window-sill extender thingees in douglas fir, and three feet took about fifteen minutes. I'd suppose DF is a lot like SYP in that respect. But it's good to have one around (or in my case, at least a few . . . .). And not every cut is going to be eight feet in difficult wood. I'd contend that 3/4 inch soft No. 2 pine is quicker to rip than to crosscut. You really zip through that stuff.

If I were in the market for a rip saw I'd probably get a Disston No. 7 or D-7. A thumbhole grip D-8 would be suitable but I think people want a lot of money for them because they somehow seem exotic to people who want to sell them, and the market perception creates a market reality, though they're actually not uncommon. An old No. 7 filed rip is usually going to be a big old thing, up to 28 inches long. Technically, every rip saw ought to be 28 inches, whereas a hand saw is 26, and anything less is going to be a panel saw.

If you see a saw that's filed with six or fewer teeth per inch, it's going to be a rip saw. If you see one out in the wild, don't get one that's been so used up that it's shaped like a triangle. I'd recommend that you don't get hung up about whether it's a Disston or not. As long as it's straight, has 4 - 6 tpi, and isn't so rusty that it's pitted--though it can be hard to tell on ebay. Sawing with a rusty saw is unnecessarily difficult. Clean it up with some mineral spirits and a scraper and some sandpaper. Wax it up with paraffin wax and give it a whirl. You may have to sharpen it, but rip saws are good to learn on and there are several places that'll show you how.

[Trey Palmer]

Thanks for the help guys!

I'm not religious enough about hand work to spend $250 on a new Lie Nielsen et al. saw when that would get me to half of a Festool TS55 and probably further than that towards a decent used bandsaw.

Bad Axe Tool Works is something worth considering.

I live 2 miles from Highland Hardware and suspect they can hook me up with someone to sharpen a used saw....

[george wilson]

You can generally keep putting out only about 1/10 H.P.,with about 1/2 H.P. bursts. Either figure is very,very low compared to what even a cheap power tool can do.

Therefore,you need to make sure you have the correct and most advantageous tool for jobs like sawing and planing.

They need to be very sharp,too,and lubricated if necessary,as well. Just think about 1/10 H.P.. What would you think of a Skil saw with that power rating?

[Trey Palmer]

Chris,

I could store and use a jobsite TS, possibly even indoors. The limiting factor for indoor power tool use is dust control. I did a couple of projects with chopsaw, skilsaw and sander, and the dust was too unmanageable.

Simplifying somewhat, our house is a small single-family urban loft with two open multi-use rooms. One of them is more 'industrial' and has a stained concrete floor. It's suitable for woodworking if the bench area can be made tidy, but also contains an office/library and our guest room.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Table saws are for sissies. Everyone has a table saw. What are they good for? Cutting off your fingers. When you have guests over you should pull out your shiny 30-inch Spear & Jackson that's so wide it looks like a patch for the side of an ironclad and tell them, "now thet's a sawawww." Besides, if space is an issue, the ripper would look better on a wall than a Black and Decker space mizer tabletop table saw, coffee maker & toaster oven combo.

[Brian Ward]

I just ripped the first benchtop strip off a 2x10x8' SYP board by hand. [...] As expected, it's not easy. It took me 45 minutes including considerable rest time, using a 14" 14TPI crosscut Sharksaw. I'd guess you could do it a lot faster with practice and the right saw, sawbench, etc.


To add a little more "detail" to what others have said, basically, ripping a board like that with the saw you describe is kind of like nailing jelly to a tree. For anything that big, you should be using a rip saw, and if you want to do it quickly, you want to use something that's long and has a low TPI number (4, 5, etc.). It will need a moderate amount of set for green(ish) softwoods, and you'll want to have wedges ready for jamming into the kerf at the end after you get the kerf started.

It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to rip that by hand. You could make a saw that works decently by finding either an old saw or a trashy new one without induction-hardened teeth and refiling/setting it.

[Sean Hughto]

When I first started trying to make furniture as opposed to just carpentry sorts of home improvement things, I had only a small dark corner of a basement near the waterheater and furnace. No stationary power tools would have fit, and their mess would have been uncontainable/unacceptable too. So I started learning handtools. I got a nobex champion miter saw (great tool) instead of a SCMS, Stanley planes, and old diston saws. Like you, I still needed some reasonable rip alternatives. I waited for reasonable (or at least tolerable) weather, and set up out on my Deck, or on saw horses in the yard. There I could bring to bear my jig saw, my circular saw, and later, my Makita portable table saw. I might have had to sweep or rake a bit after the deed, but the inside stayed dust free. Worked fine.

[Frank Drew]

Trey,

Just in case the terminology is unfamiliar, the teeth on a saw intended for ripping wood (cutting with the grain) are shaped differently than the teeth on a crosscut saw, which is for cutting across the grain. The former are more chisel shaped vs. the more knife-like profile of a crosscut tooth.

Handsaws, circular saws, chain saws all offer rip or crosscut options.

[Steve Branam]

That's a pretty hefty rip! The saw you used is like butchering a side of beef with an Xacto knife. Sure, it'll work eventually...

For big rips, I have an old 4 1/2 TPI Disston 27 1/2" (toe to heel on blade) ripsaw. Works great after I cleaned it up and filed it. You could probably get through a foot per minute with it without getting out of breath.

I've also used a 6 TPI Disston 26" rip. Worked very well on 5/4 SYP and 8/4 oak.

A good ripsaw is a power tool, and it won't burn out under load!

[george wilson]

My first big ripping job was when I was starting to make guitars at 13. I had had a bad time getting a nice piece of quartered spruce for my first guitar top. A church member had a boat repair business,and gave me a 24" square X 3/4" thick piece of spruce. I was determined to not waste it,and managed to resaw that piece of spruce into 2 thinner sheets by hand-none of the wood shop's machines could handle it. I was very stubborn!!

[Andrew Gibson]

I agree with others. I have to admit that I would probably reach for the circular saw. I would most likely pop a line with a chalk line and rip it with the circular saw.
If I was committed to doing it by hand I would reach for a 26" or so rip saw... My great great grandfather bought this one, and after a little filing and a new handle it does its job very well. I like having the thumb hole as useing both hands does help add some power. I think mine has 6 tpi.

[David Martino]

My first big ripping job was when I was starting to make guitars at 13. I had had a bad time getting a nice piece of quartered spruce for my first guitar top. A church member had a boat repair business,and gave me a 24" square X 3/4" thick piece of spruce. I was determined to not waste it,and managed to resaw that piece of spruce into 2 thinner sheets by hand-none of the wood shop's machines could handle it. I was very stubborn!!

Not to hijack an interesting thread, but do you remember how you did it? Doesn't sound easy...

[george wilson]

I clamped it on edge in a standard wood working bench,stood on the bench and sawed downwards. It took a few shop periods!!!:)

[Frank Drew]

Once we get some of those new muscles from ripping boards, we'll try our hands at sawing logs with a pit saw :eek:.

[Jim Koepke]

Once we get some of those new muscles from ripping boards, we'll try our hands at sawing logs with a pit saw :eek:.

What do you mean we? :eek:

I use a Neander chainsaw for logs.

jim

[David Keller NC]

Trey - As many others have mentioned on this thread, the slowness of your rip was a combination of teeth that were too fine, and were the wrong geometry (corsscut) for the job. If you'd like to stay with pull-type japanese saws, there are blades that are designed for the purpose - here's one (scroll down to the "King Rip Blade):

http://www.tashirohardware.com/Tashiros_Hardware_LLC/saw_blades.html

[Trey Palmer]

Trey - As many others have mentioned on this thread, the slowness of your rip was a combination of teeth that were too fine, and were the wrong geometry (corsscut) for the job. If you'd like to stay with pull-type japanese saws, there are blades that are designed for the purpose - here's one (scroll down to the "King Rip Blade):

http://www.tashirohardware.com/Tashiros_Hardware_LLC/saw_blades.html

Thanks for all the help guys. Had a busy day.

I was indeed aware it was very much the wrong saw for the job, but I started and then got determined. :confused: I read up on saw tooth geometry a couple of months ago and I watched saw auctions for a while but they were pretty high. And I considered saws less essential than some other things because I do have a skilsaw and jigsaw.

David, this is EXACTLY what I've been looking for. I hadn't been able to find Japanese rip blades anywhere.

I don't think that I have a particular preference for pullsaws. I just have a preference for $15 impulse-hardened saw blades over the cost of good, sharp Western saws.

That said, it seems a new woodworking friend is going to ship me four 26" handsaws that are extras to him, which I'm excited about. Two are rip saws that need a little work so I'm going to see about getting some saw files this week. I find the idea of filing rip teeth less intimidating.

A foot per minute would be more than acceptable for the bragging rights of doing the whole thing by hand.

[Trey Palmer]

Table saws are for sissies. Everyone has a table saw. What are they good for? Cutting off your fingers. When you have guests over you should pull out your shiny 30-inch Spear & Jackson that's so wide it looks like a patch for the side of an ironclad and tell them, "now thet's a sawawww." Besides, if space is an issue, the ripper would look better on a wall than a Black and Decker space mizer tabletop table saw, coffee maker & toaster oven combo.

:D

Jonathan,

Your suggestion of saw hanging seems particularly suited for the wall opposite my planned bench area. It is the original siding of the 1907 corner store that forms the older half of our house.

However, the female half of the household seems to lack your insight and vision....

http://sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=389&pictureid=3730

[Jonathan McCullough]

Hmm. Greek key baluster + old clapboards = South Carolina? Seems to me like a classy old saw and spiffed-up wooden transitional plane on the mantelpiece would be in keeping with the rustic charm, but sadly, the female half of my household also inexplicably refuses to recognize my aesthetic genius. "It's dadaiste," I say, but to no avail. "If that's dadaiste," she'd snort, "then the mess out in the garage is the fricken Museum of Modern Art."

[john brenton]

I remember trying to do that before I knew better. Those "fine finish" saws from the borgs are awesome for crosscutting soft wood, but they can't rip for crap.

Once you get a good rip saw you will be amazed. A well tuned rip saw should glide right through that SYP.


Hi. i'm new.

Wanted to try fine woodworking.

Like history. Don't have much room.

Bought planes on ebay.

Learned to sharpen. Kinda.

Building workbench.

Bought SYP for top.

All of that I can deal with. Kind of. I guess.

The real problem is....

I just ripped the first benchtop strip off a 2x10x8' SYP board by hand.
Just to see how hard it was.

As expected, it's not easy. It took me 45 minutes including considerable rest time, using a 14" 14TPI crosscut Sharksaw. I'd guess you could do it a lot faster with practice and the right saw, sawbench, etc.
That might actually be acceptable.

So, like, assuming the lack of stationary power tools, would the rest of you evil insane people keep ripping them by hand, or would you use a circ saw and guide? If (A), what kind of saw would you use?

And, uhhhh, thanks! I guess. :rolleyes:

[Jim Koepke]

A foot per minute would be more than acceptable for the bragging rights of doing the whole thing by hand.

If one of your rip saws is in the 5-7 tpi range and sharp, I would be surprised if you don't beat that speed.

jtk

[Maurice Ungaro]

Trey,
If you are two miles from Highland Hardware, well, you are doomed to slide down the slope. I went in there so often that the cashiers knew me by name! Anyway, I started my woodworking journey much like you: wanting the non-powered method with minimal dust made in the process approach. I even made my bench out of SYP for my first project. Now, since the bench is the thing at hand, I'll throw my 2 cents in and offer that maybe you're approaching the bench top from the wrong angle. Have you thought of using 2x4's for the top, rather than paying for a 2x10, only to rip it down? My point is this: if you glue up the top with each board glued on the 4" face, then you need to rip NOTHING. Will it be thick? Well, yeah, but then you get to plane it to thickness and flatten it in the process. Save the 2x10s to make your stretchers, the width will help give some stability.

Have fun with it!

[Steve Branam]

I just had one of those "holy crap!" moments. In my reply above I said you could probably cut a foot per minute with a good ripsaw in 2" stock. I'm building the folding workbench from Roy Underhill's "Woodwright's Apprentice", so I decide to put my saw where my mouth is, and time my rips. The bench calls for a 2x10 ripped into 2x2 pieces for the legs and braces. I got some beautiful poplar 2x10 (1 3/4" finished thickness) for it. I did four rips down a 6' length using my 6 TPI saw and 4 1/2 TPI saw.

The 6 TPI is a Thomas Preston, not Disston; the etch is almost unreadable. I found a matching one online claiming to be dated 1867. The medallion on mine is an eagle, with "Warranted Extra", no patent date. So this saw is probably at least 100 years old, possibly up to 150.

The 4 1/2 I think is a Disston, but not entirely sure. No more visible etch, "Warranted superior" eagle medallion.

The first three rips took 22, 24, and 22 minutes using the 6 on the first two and the 4 1/2 on the last. So that's 3 1/2 to 4 minutes per foot. Not exactly the rate I had predicted.

However, for the fourth, I figured I should take 10 minutes to sharpen my 6 first. Then I did the fourth rip: 7 1/2 minutes. I'll let that sink in a moment.

Yes, sharpening the saw cut a 22-minute time down to 7 1/2 in the same 1 3/4" thick piece of poplar :eek:. That's 1 1/4 minutes per foot. Within shooting distance of my prediction.

The difference in speed with a sharp tool is just amazing. Sure, I spent 10 minutes sharpening, but 10 minutes sharpening is a lot easier than 10 minutes sawing. And that sharpening will last me for a bit. I had been ripping 2" oak with it since the last sharpening.

So the moral of the story is just like they say, if you think you might need to sharpen, sharpen.

[ray hampton]

will one of you young sawyer try standing a board vertical and clamp it to your work bench before you rip saw it---compare the time to sawing a board horizontal

[Jim Koepke]

will one of you young sawyer try standing a board vertical and clamp it to your work bench before you rip saw it---compare the time to sawing a board horizontal

I did this, it seemed to go fine, then all of a sudden it got real hard. Next thing I knew there were two pieces to my bench on the floor.

OK, just couldn't resist. Last board I ripped by hand was 8 feet long and I did not want to stand on a ladder.

jim

[Steve Branam]

To echo Jim's reply, I only do short pieces vertically, say less than 24", so speed isn't really an issue.

One important note on technique is to flip the board over every few inches and saw from the other side. Sounds tedious, but it isn't. It keeps things fast because you're not sawing full thickness all the time, you're mostly sawing partially sawn thickness (like cutting down from the corners when sawing a tenon cheek). This is the recommended method for resawing (see the hyperkitten site), but it's also useful for normal ripping.

The other thing is that it keeps the saw tracking close to the line. It's easy for the saw to wander on the back side even though it looks good on the side facing you. Frequent flipping allows you to correct any wander before it gets bad (you need to mark the line on both sides of the board). You can hold to within a hair of your line for the entire length of a board.

The need to flip from one side to another is also a good reason to rip horizontally, not vertically. You can rest the board on a sawbench and horse and hold it down with your knee or foot, no clamps or holdfasts needed. When it's vertical, you have to keep putting it in the vise and removing it. That's a pain.

[David Keller NC]

Steve - I don't remember you noting this or not, but I can't remember how you were holding the board while ripping it. To be specific, working on a sawbench while centering your mass over the cut speeds things along mightily when compared to standing at a workbench. If you don't have one, taking the time to build one of the Schwarz's sawbenches would be well worth your time.

[Peter Cobb]

I actually ripped the material for the sawbench with a panel saw combination teeth) out of 3 x 2's to get close to the right size.
After completing the sawbench the ripping has improved a LOT :p.
Now it may have something to do with using the bowsaw I got from Highland WW. (+- $45 comes with a 26" x 1-5/8", 5 TPI rip blade.) but the bench helps a bunch,
Cheers,
Peter

[Steve Branam]

Yes, this was all on a Schwarz sawbench, board held down with my knee, far end on a low Krenov-style trestle.

I do find that the 20-minute rips start to make my back ache leaning over like that, so the alternate position is to hold the board down with my foot. That still gives me much the same position over the cut, but with my torso upright. Not such a problem with the 7-minute rip!