New Grizz TS update....

[Scott Parks]

I wrote last week about a couple disappointments on the new 1023 saw... Had time to play with it today.

I put a shim on the floor under one corner so there is no wobbling on the floor. I used a machinist ruler to dail it in parallel, etc. Anyway, it still vibrates, and will not pass the nickel test. Also, I have used both my old Freud thin kerf with stabilzer, and the brand new Forrest WW2 with out the stabilzer. I still have circular score marks on the cut from both of my blades. I'm assuming this is due to excess vibration. :confused: The runout on the Forrest is less than .001"

Am I being too picky? Or is it time to give Grizz a call? Is this saw supposed to pass the nickel test? Other 1023 owners please chime in with your .02. How smooth do your saws cut?

Thanks...

[Todd Franks]

Scott,

I have a 1023 that's a little over a year old now. I have it on a Shop Fox mobile base that is not very coplanar. By pushing down on a corner of the saw with some effort I can get the cabinet to rock on the base a little. Therefore, the base of my saw is anything but wobble free, yet it passes the nickel test just fine. When ripping with my WWII, if I look closely I can see faint forward and backward hatch marks from the blade. I'm no expert, but I think this is what you are supposed to see from a properly aligned fence with a good saw and blade. I am very happy with the saw and have no buyer's remorse.

However, if I were in your shoes, I would not hesitate to call Grizzly CS. I don't think your being picky.

-Todd

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have a 1023 and love it. Did have a slight problem with the sliding table wheels, but a quick call to griz nets me two of them in the mail right now.

If you have a problem, call them and they'll make it right. I have had great experiences with them as a company and my new saw especially.

[Jim Becker]

It sounds like you are troubleshooting "correctly". When a magazine did a review article on a bunch of cabinet saws not long ago, they had two machines that had the "circular scoring" problem that you describe. It was a problem with the arbor. I do suggest you call and discuss it with Grizzly...if it were only with one blade, it likely is the blade. But with multiple blades, you have a problem with the saw.

[Kent Cori]

Definitely call Griz. Something is not right with your particular machine. The symptoms you describe are not common for the rest of us with Griz 1023 units.

[Chris Padilla]

Sounds like possibly excessive runout on the arbor, Scott. Do you have anything to measure it with?

If you cut a dado/groove with your 1/8" blade, is the bottom of the dado/groove still at 1/8"? Use dial calipers to check if you have them. The more you rise the blade into a piece of wood to check, the easier it will be to see the potential wobble. Maybe stand a scrap of 2x4 on its 1.5" edge and cut it several inches in.

My 1023 is still dead smooth at 4 years+

[Scott Parks]

Thanks guys.. Time to call Grizzly... I wasn't sure if it was normal, or if I was being too fussy. I do love the saw, though. It is 100x better than the one I retired. Even in this condition it cuts WAY better.I measured the runout with the Forrest blade at less than .001"

Jim, yes it scores slightly, but... When I went to the WW show a couple weeks ago, the Forrest guy sliced off some 8/4 cherry to 1/16". There were no score marks that I recall.

Chris, just ran out and made a cut at full blade height... checked with the dial caliper, and dead on... I think the runout is acceptable.

Maybe it's the blade(s)? I'll call Grizz and see what they say, because either way, the nickel dances accross the table...

[Norman Hitt]

Sorry you're still having trouble with your new Saw, Scott. It will be interesting to hear what Grizzly has to say as a possible cause. There is a good possibility that at least part of the problem could be caused by the belts, as I have seen other reports occasionally about the belts causing vibration because of less than top quality, and some that have for some reason taken a "Set" which causes a kind of "Loping" effect as the hard spot crosses the pullys each time, which causes vibration. Those that reported those problems replaced the belts with either link belts, or in some cases just another brand of good quality belt, which corrected it.

Hope it's something simple, and you can get it worked out quickly.

[thomas prevost]

Mine will now pass the nickel test. But, when it arrived it vibrated like crazy. A call to Grizz and a walk through by the tech. We determined that the pulley had a big chip in it. It was sent out immediately and in two days I had a machined that literally purred when turned on. I should note my saw is not quite brand new and before they had the great quality control they now have. But service is still the same -great.:)

[Larry Crim]

I had a simular problem with mine after assembly vibrated a little but had already ordered some link belts, changed them the next day when they arrived and it smoothed it right out. I am very satisfied with the Griz products I own but lets face it the belts they ship with their units are junk. I use the link belts on all my machines, while they are a little high priced they do the trick.

Larry

[Ted Shrader]

Scott -

Did you get a chance to call Grizzly? And what did they say?

I'm with the folks who say the belts are the problem. Sounds like you have your saw tuned up well. Of course that is all when the saw is off. When you turn it on, the motor (and sheave), belt and arbor (and sheave) are all moving. One of those things has the problem - most likely the belt. Have you run the motor with no belt attached and checked it for vibration? What ever the source, the vibration is being transmitted to the blade causing the wobble.

Good luck,
Ted

[John Weber]

Scott,

Something is wrong, motor bearing, arbor, loose fitting, I don't really know, but a cabinet saw should easily pass the nickel test. I would also consider a replacement saw as you may have trouble finding the root cause with what sounds like a straight arbor and heavy vibration.

John

[Clint deal]

Mine did'nt pass the nickle test at first until I shimmed the base on one corner, now it does although I still feel a slight vibration. I'm using a 32 tooth Freud glue line rip blade and the cuts are very smooth with no circular marks.
I agree with the above, give Grizzly a chance to make it right.
I'd like to try the link belts on mine. Are there more than one size link belts? Anybody know how many feet I need to buy for the 1023 sl?
Clint

[Steve Clardy]

Mine did'nt pass the nickle test at first until I shimmed the base on one corner, now it does although I still feel a slight vibration. I'm using a 32 tooth Freud glue line rip blade and the cuts are very smooth with no circular marks.
I agree with the above, give Grizzly a chance to make it right.
I'd like to try the link belts on mine. Are there more than one size link belts? Anybody know how many feet I need to buy for the 1023 sl?
Clint
If I remember, mine took two packages of the four foot lenghts. One four foot isn't enough. 3/8" in size.

[Mike Linne]

I have the 1023 with a WWII blade - no vibration, passes the dime test and no scoring. Runout on the arbor is < .002". One thing to try is to remove the belts and check vibration. If you still experience vibration w/o belts then the problem is likely the motor (could be bad bearing), motor sheave (pully) or associated mounting, or cabinet still unsteady (softfoot). If vibration is acceptable then the vibration source likely is one of the following (in order of likelyhood): bad belts, loose belt sheaves, misaligned belt sheaves, misbalanced belt sheaves, bad arbor bearings, trunnion mounting/casting.

I have had several Grizzly machines with defective belts which caused vibration and were replaced by Grizzly - fortuneately my 1023 wasn't one of the defective belt group.

All in all, Grizzly after sale support has done whatever it took to make my purchases right, so I'm sure you'll finally get satisfaction. Patience and perseverance.

[Scott Parks]

Thanks again for the suggestions. I ran around the house today like a whirlwind, and never got to the phone to call Grizz:( But on a positive note, I hung 2 blinds and tiled a counter top! Now I'm out of town, so It'll have to wait a couple days. I do think it could be the belts. I tried more nickels just in case it was the nickel... 3 out of 5 fell down, but the other two barely stayed up. I'll call them and see if I can get some more info, I promise!

[Scott Parks]

Here's the update. I called Grizz and found the vibration. The set screw on the arbor pulley was too long and protruding into one of the belts. I ground the screw shorter and reinstalled. It now easily passes the nickel test. There still is a very slight vibration, but I'm positive that this is due to the poor quality belts that they use. I asked for new ones, but they told me to go buy better ones because if they sent me replacement belts, it would be the same junky ones that they put on the machine.

However, I still have hash marks on all my cuts. Should it be smooth, or is this normal?

Also, there is a lot of slop in the worm gear that raises and lowers the blade. I asked about that, and one guy told me it can be tightened. I couldn't figure out how to do this, so I called back. The next guy said that it didn't matter. ??? I can grab the motor assembly and lift it up and down 1/8". Is this really normal???? They didn't seem to care! They said they didn't want me tearing the machine apart to try to make it tight.... ???? But I still have hash marks on my cut! Now what..???? I've made three calls today. The only other thing I can think of is install link belts, or it is my blade?

[Clint deal]

Scott, sorry to hear of all the problems but it sounds like you're on the right track. I'm going to check my pullies and set screws as soon as the shop warms up. It's cold in NC this morning!
I would think the scoring or hash marks would be caused by the blade not being in plane with the fence. When you are feeding the piece through and the blade has cut the peice but you are still feeding it the rest of the way through do you hear the blade as it passes? In other words, as the wood is passing the blade after the cut can you hear the blade rubbing the wood? Does it sould like the outfeed side of the blade is rubbing the wood more as it passes? Don't know if you can understand what I'm trying to say or not. lol
Clint

[Paul Downes]

Scott, The only way to really check the arbor is with a dial indicator. I would not indicate a saw blade because to properly check that you would need to check the saw teeth. A saw can cut smooth even if the arbor has slop in it, It just cutts a wider kerf. By feeding slow you might not see an uneven cut. I would deffinantly call Grizzly, I have always been happy with their costomer service. I have heard of some woodworkers replaceing the arbor bearings with precision bearings with very good results.

[Scott Coffelt]

Check the fence. The facing may be off, so that when you push the piece through it actually forces the wood into the blade. I've heard folks occasionally get one that isn't perfect. You can either plan flat or shim. Glad all else is coming together.

[Dick Howard]

Check the set screws on the belt pulleys to be sure the belt isn't hitting them. Ive seen this cause vibration problems.
Dick in Emmett, Idaho

[Dick Howard]

I should have read the second page before my post. See you already found it.
Dick in Emmett, Idaho

[Carl Eyman]

Scott: as a much lower cost alternative to link belts I've found notched "v" belts to work well. Get the same size as those you are replacing. They transmit more power, too.

[Scott Parks]

Grizzly called me today to follow up. This guy had me take off one belt at a time to determing if it is the belts, blade, or arbor. Anyway, by getting down underneath the saw while turning it on and off, I could see that every belt had a lump in it or did not run true. Every time the lump passes over the motor pulley, the motor assembly jumps slightly. So our next step is to try different belts. If that doesn't work, he will send me new arbor bearings.

Later, I checked all alignments again and discoverd that the fence face is not flat! it is wavy where the HDPE is screwed to the fence. It varies by as much as .010" along the face. (as Scott Coffelt suggested) My next tweak is to try to get the fence face perfectly flat, and replace the "lumpy" belts. I bet this will work. If not, he said he would just start "throwing parts at me" until we solve the problem.... I'll keep y'all posted...

[Tim Morton]

two words...
"Link Belts"

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

two words...
"Link Belts"

Two more words..."Or JET' :(

I know a bunch of you have perfectly seviceable Grizzly saws, but the one I worked with read the same as Scott's. I hated it.

KC