All is not well at Harbor Freight Tools

[Clint Schlosser]

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/jul/19/harbor-freight-ceo-accused-by-parents-of-looting/

Apparently this privately held company is experiencing a family fued. Looks like the son leveraged the company with a $500 million dollar loan and used the funds to purchase all kinds of extravagant items.

Who knew selling cheap tools could make you so rich.

[Neil Brooks]

So ... all those missing bits, and munged threads, and ... generally failed products that I once bought ... subsidized a painting that cost $100 MILLION ??

I wonder if I get to look at it, at least.

The love of money ... is the root of all evil....

[Matt Meiser]

Doesn't he know you can get cheap Chinese copies for a couple bucks?

Seriously, this is the kind of thing that could bring a company down, assuming its true. The whole article seems to based on what one side said, so who knows.

[Jim Rimmer]

I don't remember all the details but U-Haul had a similar family fight several years ago that lead to it becoming the junk truck leaser it is today. Seems like there was even a murder in the deal somewhere along the way.

More reading if you're interested:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1994-12-01/news/the-u-haul-tragedy/

[Damon Stathatos]

For all bashing most of HF's tools deserve, I always considered them a great resource for use-once or use-infrequently tool needs. Sometimes you need a specific something-or-other to turn one bolt head or cut one cut and it'd be a killer having to pay for an 'investment' tool. For the most part, at least you know what you're in for with them as opposed to paying through the nose and happening upon just as much of a piece of junk.

The family part of it is sad and just goes to prove that the only people who can 'get to you,' are people you trust. If you don't trust them, you never allow them into the position of 'getting you.'

[Van Huskey]

Shame if true. Although, they are by far not my tool of choice they do come in handy for a cheap alternative for a rarely or once used tool. Eevery visit makes me actually wonder where all the money goes in a "good" tool when they have a "decent" copy for 1/10th the price.

[Mike Cruz]

In my younger (more naive) days, I bought some HF wrenches because, well, the deals was "too good to pass up". And, after all, a wrench is a wrench is a wrench...right? Well, when I needed to get a nut loosened on my tractor, I reached for one of my wrenches, the bolt was being very stubborn. Eventually, something gave...and it wasn't the nut! The open ended wrench, well, opened even more. And, as Murphy's law would have it, the path of my hand that went from 0 to 60 (and consequently back to to 0) lead staight into an immovable object. Bleeding (and badly bruised) knuckles convinced me that HF tools weren't worth the "deal".

I suppose that is where the other 9/10 goes...into quality materials that hold up like they are supposed to.

[Hugh Jardon]

I think the point is though that having:

Designed the wrench mould
Poured the casting
Cleaned up the casting
Plated the casting
Packed the finished wrenches
Shipped them around the world
Marketed them
Distributed them
Retailed them

It wouldn't be too difficult to have used a different alloy to begin with that is a tad more robust. Or treated the casting. I imagine it might cost 2/10 instead of 1/10.

[Steve Milito]

I would bet it went closer to:
1. Marketing determined a wrench set for x dollars will sell y units per year.
2. Buyer agent gets bid from various companies
3. Several companies can produce said item at the volume needed and time frame desired.
4. Cheapest company from short list gets contract.




I think the point is though that having:

Designed the wrench mould
Poured the casting
Cleaned up the casting
Plated the casting
Packed the finished wrenches
Shipped them around the world
Marketed them
Distributed them
Retailed them

It wouldn't be too difficult to have used a different alloy to begin with that is a tad more robust. Or treated the casting. I imagine it might cost 2/10 instead of 1/10.

[Jon Prouty]

In my younger (more naive) days, I bought some HF wrenches because, well, the deals was "too good to pass up". And, after all, a wrench is a wrench is a wrench...right? Well, when I needed to get a nut loosened on my tractor, I reached for one of my wrenches, the bolt was being very stubborn. Eventually, something gave...and it wasn't the nut! The open ended wrench, well, opened even more. And, as Murphy's law would have it, the path of my hand that went from 0 to 60 (and consequently back to to 0) lead staight into an immovable object. Bleeding (and badly bruised) knuckles convinced me that HF tools weren't worth the "deal".

I suppose that is where the other 9/10 goes...into quality materials that hold up like they are supposed to.

I would never use the open side of a wrench to loosen a stuck bolt - even my Snap-On wrenches have a potential to slip. I was always taught to use the box end of the wrench when it is tight.

Sorry about the injury - it could have happened regardless of the quality of the tool. In these cases, quality tools definitely win out of a bargin bin wrench.

just my 2 cents...

JP

[David Woodruff]

If Harbor Freight ever sold anything that was not Asian junk, I failed to recognize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karl Card]

I did get a good deal on a drill press. 16 inch floor drill press... very good, drills straight as an arrow. gave 45 dollars for it. it was on the list of things that were actually good from HF though.

I saw on ebay someone selling a 4 speed vertical bandsaw for around 800 bucks.... it was green, I thought to myself "noway", yesway it was a bandsaw from HF... I am anxious to see if it sells.

as long as a person can recognise the quality you can or will find a place where it is a good deal to use them, what really heats me up though is that if you have to order a part for something and get it within 6 months you are doing good.... that is just not customer friendly at all.

[Neil Brooks]

as long as a person can recognise the quality you can or will find a place where it is a good deal to use them, what really heats me up though is that if you have to order a part for something and get it within 6 months you are doing good.... that is just not customer friendly at all.

Amen.

One thing I bought (my DC ?) was missing a BUNCH of hardware, and -- since there was NO list of parts (the parts that should have been included) I couldn't satisfy "Customer Service" when they kept asking me which parts I needed.

I eventually called Southern California, and was told (of course) to just buy what I needed from the hardware store, and that I'd be reimbursed.

I bought a BUNCH of fasteners .... enough to last me a few more HF purchases, if I go that route :)

[Mike Cruz]

Ahhhh, maybe THAT is the difference... Mine didn't have a box end! Open on both ends. The ends opened up, not slipped. I do, however, doubt that your Snap Ons would have opened on the bolt. A pair of vice grips did the job... Point taken, though.

[Dan Karachio]

This is exactly why I refuse to leave my personal fortune to my son. He needs to pay his own dues and build his own industrial empire. Giving him mine will teach him nothing!

[ed vitanovec]

This is said news to hear. My recent experience with Harbor Frieght is the purchase of electric metal nippers, got them home and did not work. I took them back tonight and exchanged for a another that worked. I tried them out and cut 26 Ga steel and cut about 3 feet and they would not cut any more. Made the adjustments according to the very hard to understand instructions and it did not help. These are going back this weekend for a refund or maybe I'll exchange them for a multi tool. Anyone have luck with the multi-tool?

Regards!
Ed

[Van Huskey]

Anyone have luck with the multi-tool?

Regards!
Ed


There is lots of FB on the multi-tool here, no one argues it is a replacement for a Fein but most that have it are satisfied based on the cost.

[Jim Underwood]

Maybe this is why the local HF hasn't opened up despite it being way past it's advertised open date. It's still got gravel on the floor instead of concrete.

[Curt Harms]

If Harbor Freight ever sold anything that was not Asian junk, I failed to recognize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Harbor Freights around here often stock SuperCut metal cutting bandsaw blades(made in Idaho). I don't recall seeing wood cutting bandsaw blades. I've seen other made-in-usa stuff there but it's rare.

[Marty Paulus]

I think the point is though that having:

Designed the wrench mould
Poured the casting
Cleaned up the casting
Plated the casting
Packed the finished wrenches
Shipped them around the world
Marketed them
Distributed them
Retailed them

It wouldn't be too difficult to have used a different alloy to begin with that is a tad more robust. Or treated the casting. I imagine it might cost 2/10 instead of 1/10.

Snap on, Craftsman and Matco all make their wrenchs a little differently. They are not cast. They are stamped from drawn rod and then forged. Major difference in strength.

[Dave Lehnert]

If Harbor Freight ever sold anything that was not Asian junk, I failed to recognize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harbor Freight Had a large air compressor that was American made. They also has a selection of electric motors that were made in the USA. If a person never shops a place because it's all "Junk" how is an American made line of tools ever have a chance in there.

Just like any other place you have to judge each item on it's own.
Amazes me how many people will spend big $$$$ on a tool because it says Snap-On when it may be a re-badged tool that can be had for half the cost elsewhere.

[Harry Hagan]

Let’s not forget the reason Harbor Freight, and Walmart for that matter; do so well. If Americans didn’t fork out billions of our hard-earned dollars every year for that “Cheap Asian Junk”—they would likely have those Asian sweatshops producing quality merchandise for American consumption.

[Callan Campbell]

For all bashing most of HF's tools deserve, I always considered them a great resource for use-once or use-infrequently tool needs. Sometimes you need a specific something-or-other to turn one bolt head or cut one cut and it'd be a killer having to pay for an 'investment' tool. For the most part, at least you know what you're in for with them as opposed to paying through the nose and happening upon just as much of a piece of junk.

The family part of it is sad and just goes to prove that the only people who can 'get to you,' are people you trust. If you don't trust them, you never allow them into the position of 'getting you.'
Or to put it another way, it's easier to fire employees than your family;);):D

[Jason White]

You can leave it to me, instead! ;)


This is exactly why I refuse to leave my personal fortune to my son. He needs to pay his own dues and build his own industrial empire. Giving him mine will teach him nothing!

[Don Dorn]

This is exactly why I refuse to leave my personal fortune to my son. He needs to pay his own dues and build his own industrial empire. Giving him mine will teach him nothing!

Good for you - it isn't often that I come across someone that doesn't feel that the next generation (including your own) is better served by entitilement. Showing that you care sometimes means insisting that they too learn to swim. This whole attitude that we have to make things better for our children gripes me.

[Neil Brooks]

Good for you - it isn't often that I come across someone that doesn't feel that the next generation (including your own) is better served by entitilement. Showing that you care sometimes means insisting that they too learn to swim. This whole attitude that we have to make things better for our children gripes me.

Don,

I THINK THIS generation has solved THAT problem ... ;)

[David G Baker]

Don K.
You mirror my philosophy on passing on the wealth. If you don't earn it you more than likely do not respect it. I have seen this behavior many times.

[Jim Underwood]

Don,

I THINK THIS generation has solved THAT problem ... ;)

No kidding. The kids can't even find jobs now...:rolleyes:

I'm sure we'll all learn a valuable lesson from this economic disaster (well, except for our politicians- I doubt they'll ever learn- I sincerely doubt any of them get it.). I wonder how long we'll remember it?

[Matt Meiser]

They aren't the only company with family problems. Breaking news from Toledo is that Tony Packos (made famous by Jamie Farr in MASH) could go into receivership due to a family dispute.

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100729/BUSINESS03/7280406/-1/BUSINESS

[David Prince]

The same song and dance has played out numerous times over the course of history... If you want to be a successful businessman, you normally have to put in long hours and give everything you have to your business. The family usually gets the short end of the stick.

Did the father take the time to show his kid anything other than how to build a business?

Do your best to raise your kids and hopefully they don't mutiny on you!:)

The father may be at fault somewhere!

[Dan Gill]

This is exactly why I refuse to leave my personal fortune to my son. He needs to pay his own dues and build his own industrial empire. Giving him mine will teach him nothing!

Whenever I threaten my son with writing him out of my will he cheers, "Hooray, less debt!" :)

[Dan Karachio]

FYI, I guess it didn't quite come through with text, but I was joking a bit since I do not have a fortune or industrial empire! However, I am all for hard work by any kid whether a dad is rich or poor. I grew up with rich brats and not being one myself was probably the one thing I can hang on to and depend on.

[Bill LaPointe]

I inherited the family fortune and I went through it very quickly. I guess $12 doesn't go so far anymore!:D

[Dan Karachio]

The "kid" went nuts! It's beyond stupid, it is more pathological. Zero sense of self control. Like Real House Wives and Husbands of Harbor Freight.

Perhaps a sense of irony can be appreciated here. I have to imagine that when he hired people to work on all those mansions, they were not using HF tools - probably Festool and all the other high end stuff! :-)

[Stew Hagerty]

Just like any other place you have to judge each item on it's own. Amazes me how many people will spend big $$$$ on a tool because it says Snap-On when it may be a re-badged tool that can be had for half the cost elsewhere.

I have their DC and their big 6" x 48" Belt and 9" Disc Combination Sander and am very happy with both. The sander sells for $189 before the obligatory 20% off coupon. I checked a variety of forums and the general consensus was favorable so I took the plunge. For $150 bucks I think I got a pretty good deal.
I also have a whole bunch of their clamps, most of which cost between $1.99 and $6.99. Hard to beat those prices. If and when they break, I just toss them and buy another without crying like I would if it were a $25-$30 Bessey.

Here is a good resource to read through before deciding to buy something from HF.

http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2008/08/06/buyer-beware-a-harbor-freight-buying-guide-the-good-enough-the-bad-and-the-abysmal/