off topic--hardwood flooring

[Jeremy Bracey]

Sorry guys, this is a little off topic, but I thought you were probably the right group to ask this to.

I am getting ready to build a new house. We have designed a very large open concept Great room. The kitchen flows into the dinning room and then into the "living" room. It is really all one big room, no natural breaks for flooring.

With that in mind, we had pretty much decided on hardwood. After visiting two flooring stores tonight they both tried to talk me into laminate. I have installed laminate for my sister and realize that it isnt junk, but it just isnt wood.

Here is what I am told is the problem with wood. I have three kids and a large dog as well as the fact that I want to use it in the kitchen. I am told that the dog and the kids will destroy it. Thier really isnt much price difference between laminate and 3/4" hardwood anymore so price isnt the main factor, it is durability, I always thought that hardwood was very durable.

I really appreciate your thoughts. Obviously as a fellow woodworker, I love the look of wood in my house.

[Steve Evans]

I'm not sure what the salesmen thinks your kids are going to do to it, take an axe to it or play hockey on it (in skates maybe). I have a 75 pound dog and yes there are some marks on the floor, but our maple floor is 10 years old now, and I would expect some wear. My big complaint is when people buy light wood stained dark. Then every scratch looks awful. Don't get me going on how I think laminate floors look. I really hate that seam that goes across multiple rows of flooring. If I instaledl a hardwood floor with two end seams that line up, I would go back and cut that board out, drives me nuts. I suspect that the margins are higher on their line of laminate flooring and trim pieces (that seem to be proprietary to each manufacturer) Give me real hardwood over laminate any day.

Steve

[David LaRue]

Nother vote for hardwood. I have red oak in the Kithen, and Brazilian Cherry (Jotaba) in the hallway and rooms up.

The kitchen floor pickled white, and has a waterborn finish. Very very durable. About the only thin that has phased it is the high chair with ground in cereal etc.. It is finally at the point where we need to refininsh it after 12 years. We are thinking about changing to a natural oak when it is sanded and refinished. And that's one of the nice things about real wood, very durable, and you can change the finish if you want.

Of the two floors I would say that the cherry floor is harder and more durable. There is no stain on these floors and they naturally age to a nice deep reddish brown. :)

I layed both floors, so you can do it yourself, but i recommend someone else sand it.

David

[Glenn Clabo]

We have oak floors throughout the house and maple floors in the kitchen. We also have two 90 lb labs and I can still say we wouldn't put down laminate even after 6 years of experience. I can't say that the dogs have been as kind to the floor as slippers...but it's wood and it wears. I'd say 10-15 years from now we'll be refinishing...but laminate would have to be replaced. Bottom line...we love our wood floors...

[Ray Thompson]

If you have a Lumber Liquidators near you check out their flooring. It comes pre-finished with a 50 coating. Pricing is fairly reasonable $3.50-5.00 sq./ft for some woods. I went to my flooring store to get all my needs for the house and specified Brazilian Cherry for the hardwood areas. They told me it wasn't available and there was a 6 month backorder. So I found a LL and picked up exactly what I wanted for $2 ft less money and no wait. They have a web site and will send you free samples so you can compare.

No affiation, yada, yada

Ray

[Bob Aquino]

I put down about 700 sq ft of unfinished brazilian cherry about 3 years ago. We have a 70 lb dog and he has put some wear on the floor but it is not that bad. The first scratch on that floor was like the first scratch on a new car, it sucks but then you get over it. I had to keep telling myself that its a floor, not fine furniture and it will get scractched and nicked up.

You might also want to consider integrating tile in with the wood. I have seen some shows on tv that did just that. My concern is wood around sinks, always some splashing and no wood floor likes to get wet.

Finally, you can use your woodworking skills putting down a floor with some neat touches. I did one room in a herringbone pattern using the 3x36 inch planks. Took quite a bit longer but it came out pretty nice. Every board I laid down had to be cut in some fashion so there was a greater amount of waste but the effect was worth it. There is a book out on laying wood flooring, dont remember the title, but a search on amazon should find it.

[Ed Falis]

I see no reason not to do hardwood either, with appropriate finish.

If you want to consider something from left field look into real linoleum. They can do amazing pattern things with it that are quite beautiful and hardy.

- Ed

[Jim Becker]

Hardwood floors have been installed in homes for a gazzillion years...and modern finishes are even better than some of the products that used to be used. If you like hardwood...use hardwood. It will hold up just fine. And laminates can be scratched up just as "nicely" despite the marketing hype...but they cannot be refinished.

[Phil Winn]

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are pre-finished wood floors---they do have a slight bevel between the<o:p></o:p>

boards.....I think they both look really nice; and they both can be<o:p></o:p>

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height-wise than the others BUT I have found that the prefinished are<o:p></o:p>

slightly more durable than the others. From what I remember, the prefinished<o:p></o:p>

boards "are finished" under optimum circumstances and with products which<o:p></o:p>

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kids, dogs, and cats---the prefinished floors show somewhat less wear<o:p></o:p>

than the others. <o:p></o:p>

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I would not do fake floors---they can not be refinished.....<o:p></o:p>

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Also remember that various woods, even white oak Verses red oak, are<o:p></o:p>

various hardnesses and respond differently to damp environments...<o:p></o:p>

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Good luck !<o:p></o:p>

Phil<o:p></o:p>

[James Stokes]

O.K. I am going to go the other way. I would put in the laminate. Hardwood looks nice but it is a real pain to take care of. It scratches easy, If your wife walks on it with high heel shoes she will put dents in the wood. They are high maintenence floors to keep looking nice.
Laminate on the other hand is much harder to damage, the only thing you have to do to maintain it is use a dust mop and a swiffer. I will gaurentee your wife will like the laminate much more than the hardwood.

[Fred Chan]

When it comes time to sell your house real hardwood floors will have much more value than laminate.

[Jim Young]

I personally don't like laminate. We did our kitchen, hallway and dining room with Lumber Liquidators unfinished oak 4" wide. Don't have a dog but two (7 & 8) kids. In order to avoid the scratch issue we finished it with natural Velvit oil. This makes the wood look natural, not plasticky like poly. My thought was that if a dish drops or the floor gts a scratch I could always hit it with a little sand paper and just re oil it, no marks would show. If you like the shiney look then the oil would not be for you. My wife has been after that cottagy look so the natural looking floors worked great. If the price of the old reclaimed wide board lumber weren't so high we would have done that.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Jeremy,

I have prefinished white oak in my kitchen. The seams are the weak spot in this type of floor. Water has gotten between some of the but joints and caused a little graying. It also is not as smooth as floor that is sanded and finished after instalation. My parents home has hardwood floors and survived three farm boys just fine. If I put down a laminate floor it would be a look other than wood.

My floors are 6 years old now. I don't think they will make it to 50 years before refinishing based on how they look now hey will probably make 25 without problems. Unless I lose my mind and refinish them to make them nice a smooooth. :)

[Jim Andrew]

If you decide to use the real thing, be sure to bring it in the house a couple
weeks before you start to lay it. Mine had been stored outside in a
building, so I figured it was dry. A couple of weeks later it started to
gap. This was last winter. It took me a couple weeks to get it laid and
the farther I went, the less it gapped. Now the cracks only appear in
times of low humidity. Winter with the furnace on and late summer with
AC on for some time. Jim

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

My wife wants to replace the tile we have with wood, but I've been concerned about the dog scratches, too. Having seen some other floors in 'actual use', I realize now that's probably not an issue...but the hair may be. On a dark floor, the dog hair shows up quite well...and probably even more so on a gloss finish. And we have hairy dogs (and cats). Might not be so bad on a lighter color (maple), but the tile 'hides' hair much better, IMO.

KC

[Glenn Clabo]

Kirk...
Just to relieve your mind...We have a black lab and yellow lab...dark wood/light wood doesn't matter...fur get's swifered in few minutes. Much easier than you'd think.

[Chris Padilla]

Hey, Velvit Oil!! Thanks for posting that, Jim. I love that stuff....

[Rob Strause]

I vote for wood too. An by the way NOT prefinished unless its wax. I have wax floors in the Dining Rm and Foyer and they hold up better than you'd think and when they start looking tired, a good wax job brings them right back. Apparently that's what makes wax -finished floors popular in commercial applications. Pre-finished floors are fine, but I've observed in friends homes and my study, that pre-fin floors seem to scratch a lot and in applications like kitchens really haven't help up as moisture seaps through the cracks. Floors that are finished in place seal better and from my experience seem to hold up better in general than pre-fin floors. I know two people in my 10-year old development who've replaced the pre-fin wood floors in their kitchens and bathrooms. The builder used Bruce pre-fin flooring. Maybe not the best, but not bad.

I have a laminate floor from Wytex in my basement workout room and its a great lam floor. But like any lam, it doesn't compare in appearance to either of my wood floors, and scratches just as easily. Can't be refinished either. It wil last forever in the low-traffic room its in, but I don't see advantages in a high-traffic area in the main home.

Good luck with your decision.

Rob

[Andy Halterman]

Jeremy,

Sounds like you are getting hit with a hard sales pitch. I've been in the wood flooring business for about 12 years now and I can tell you we put lots of wood floors in kitchen areas. The problems I have seen in kitchens are overwhelmingly cause by leaking pipes or appliances. Rarely do we see real wear issues but that is not to say that they don't occur. Some families are just simply hard on floors. Kids and dogs do wear and tear just about anything, floors includes. The new prefinished floors usually have those finishes with ceramic particles (usually aluminum oxide, an abrasive, go figure) mixed in the brew to make it more scratch resistant. My experience is that the jury is still out on long term durability. It's only been about 6 yrs or so since this "trend" really got going. They needed to address durability issues some how and this is what we got. One other person mentioned the seams being the weak link. Heed that sage wisdom.

You have many options for site finished flooring. Two good stout finishes I would recommend are BonaKemi Traffic or Basic Coatings StreetShoe. Both are two part waterbased polys and they hold up very well to abusive folks. Glitsa and Synteko are good two part conversion varnishes that also are pretty durable. Moisture cure urethane is also good but I won't mess with it because it is VERY toxic. Wood species are also a consideration. For domestics, hickory, maple, and white oak seem to be about the top of the list for durability. Mesquite if you can afford it, is both stunningly beautiful and pretty stout too. Pretty much all of the more common tropical woods (jatoba, ipe, cumaru, etc.) will be very tough. They can be a real bear to sand because of their hardness as well as the fact the dust tends to irritate us gringos. I'd suggest talking to a few installer/finisher folks and see what they tell you. See if you can get some references for the types of wood you are interested in and go take a peek at their floors. You have as many options as your wallet can stand. :)

Buena suerte.

Andy Halterman

Getting ready to start yet another antique pine floor in Hendersonville, NC ™

[David LaRue]

BonaKemi Traffic is what I have on my kitchen floor. Virtaully indistructible. BTW I have a Kahrs engineered maple floor in the bathroom. My kids are constantly flooding the sink, playing with water, and I've come in an hour or two later with standing water still on the floor (and clean it up). It doesn't seem to phase it. Wood is the way to go!

On my Jotoba Braziain Cherry floor I have a urathane coating.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I disagree...real wood is the floor of choice here. It has enjoyed a huge resurgence in the last 20 years...people uncovering the floors everywhere and refinishing them (which you can do more than once with the real wooden floors). Those who want you to have Laminate want to sell their product or want you to have the same thing they have. You would be much better off (children and pets, too) with the real wood floors. I would choose Oak in your situation.

[Tom Gattiker]

I have laminate (from previous owner). It behaves like plywood. There are areas that have gotten a little water damage and they show ripples due to the outer ply expanding and shrinkind at a different rate and direction that then inner core. Also in some places the outer veneer ply is separating from the inner core. This would be very difficult to repair, and, since the floor is glued down, very difficult to replace.

I agree that the finish is tough but once the floor starts to degenerate, you cannot repair or refinish.easiliy

This is after about 10 years, I'd estimate, of age.