I have been Festool infected...now what

[Kevin Gagne]

Well I made my first Festool purchase. I bought the TS55, additional 55" track and CT22. All the way home from the store I was thinking wow did I really spend that much for a saw and vacuum. :eek: As soon as I got home I took out the CT22 and hooked it out to my Dewalt ROS and went to work sanding some shelves. I noticed the difference right away with the CT22 vs the shop vac I had been using. There was hardly any dust left on the wood. I also couldn't belive how quiet it was. The ROS was much louder than the vac. Then instead of thinking about how much I spent I started thinking about what the next Festool purchase was going to be. :D I am hooked after only using it for a couple hours.

Next I took out the saw and tried it. I haven't cut much with it yet but am extremely impressed with the cut it makes. The cut was just as good as my TS with a Woodworker II on it. I can't wait to cut up a sheet of plywood with it.

I have one question about the saw though. When it first starts up is it supposed to make a funny noise (almost grinding like) while it is coming up to speed? I hear the same noise when I increase the speed of the saw while it is running. The blade is tight and nothing is rubbing so I am assuming this sound is normal.

I am thinking the ETS150/3 would make a good next purchase. What do you think? Thanks -Kevin

[Mike Reinholtz]

I got bit by the same bug, so far I couldn't be happier. My saw makes the same sound, when I bought it at Eagle Tool and tried it out I asked about this and was told it's normal and they all make that sound. The actual Festool rep was there and stated something about it having to do with the electronics and soft start. Not sure I believe him but mine works great and I haven't heard of any problems with them from anyone else.

[Cliff Holmes]

Any bets on how long until the Festool bashers show up? :rolleyes:

Welcome to our very expensive, but highly gratifying plague :D

[Jay Jolliffe]

I got bid by the same bug a while ago. Now I own the T55 with rails,C22 vac, 3 sanders & the Domino. Now I'm waiting for a job that I can justify a Festool router. That's going to be kinda hard since I have 8 already of various brands.
As far as the Festool bashers. Opinions are like ass***** everyone has one. I think that's the way the saying goes:D

[ian maybury]

No bashing here after years of using the original model - the cost is long forgotten.

The circular saw and guide system, and it's ability to make consistently clean and straight cuts in e.g. ply really opened up some possibilities for me, especially when I had a small combination machine.

Quite apart from their general usefulness lots use them as a less convenient but much more economical option in place of a panel saw....

[Scott T Smith]

The noise coming from the circular saw is normal (sure is odd, too!).

A 150/3 would be an excellent second choice. I find that I use my Festool sanders and drill the most frequently; either the 150/3 or the Rotax.

[Peter Quinn]

What's next? Cue up some Van Morrison, ready? Domino, domino.....domino, dominooooooo... whooo oooooo, domino...you get the idea. Heck, the sanders are pretty nice too. I've used a few DeWalts, and they are more of a pos than a ros compared to the Festool eq125's and 150's.

I think the domino is next though, because with the saw you can cut plywood and some solids (I say some because I have not seen a tenoning jig for them yet, so they don't replace a TS), so now you need a joinery machine. In fact, you would be doing your self an injustice not to take advantage of the power that the combined TS55 and Domino package provide, its just not right to have only half the equation. A pile of cut wood will not JOIN itself. The fabric of the WW world may tear slightly at the seems if you don't correct this situation shortly!:D

[Erik Christensen]

Kevin - you have made an expensive discovery re green tools. Your fellow festool addicts will be more than happy to act as your enablers on your path to financial ruin - enjoy the journey.

The sanders work great (I have the Rotex & 150/3) and have much better dust collection than your Dewalt when paired with the CT22. The domino is unique and the more you use it the more things you think of - I now assemble all my birch ply cabinet cases with dominos, glue & 23 gauge pins - using the cross stops lets me do so without measuring and it is faster than pocket screws with alignment automatic & accurate. The routers are great and the shelf pin jig is nothing short of awesome - dead accurate zero tear-out holes made so fast you can't believe it till you try it.

My 2 latest festools are the most surprising to me as I thought for sure I'd return them as I could not believe they would be worth keeping. The kapex lets you make cuts to at least a 64th inch accuracy without trying and the crown molding accessories with the angle gauge work slick - I did several rooms of crown with a buddy in 4 hours and every inside and outside miter was better than any coped joint I ever made & 10 times faster. Plus the fact that even with MDF molding there was so little dust that cleanup was < 2 minutes with the CT22. Then there is my latest acquisition - the T15+3 drill - what a great freakin tool - instant tool-less chuck changes, light & powerful, fabulous electronic torque control - a real blast to use.

Festool is not stupid - they offer their money back guarantee because they know that any tool junkie who uses one of their products for a few days HAS GOT TO HAVE IT. As long as you don't think of what you paid for it but what you can DO WITH IT you are fine and to those who point out that other tools can do the same task my response is "I am a hobbyist who does this for enjoyment and the festool stuff is more fun to use - end of story".

[David Hawxhurst]

I think the domino is next though, because with the saw you can cut plywood and some solids (I say some because I have not seen a tenoning jig for them yet, so they don't replace a TS), so now you need a joinery machine. In fact, you would be doing your self an injustice not to take advantage of the power that the combined TS55 and Domino package provide, its just not right to have only half the equation. A pile of cut wood will not JOIN itself. The fabric of the WW world may tear slightly at the seems if you don't correct this situation shortly!:D

a ts is not the only way to make a tenon. i have not ever made a tenon on a ts. a router is a good way to make a tenon.

[Dan Karachio]

Kevin, I had the same driving home reaction with my TS 75, MFT/3 and OF 1400 - all bought in one trip during the height of the economic crisis. For the vac, I told myself no way in heck am I going to spend that much on a vac, no way. Well, a while later I picked up the 150/3 and the CT22. The CT 22 is my absolute favorite and most used tool. I hook it up to everything (TS 75, OF 1400, ES 150/3, biscuit joiner, belt sander...) and it is fantastic. Lately I bought the cleaning attachment set and all I can say is wow. It is now so easy to clean my shop. All this is pricey, but the payoff is in the best ever design and usability.

This could be your next purchase and it won't hurt much at all:
http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/product_detail.html?sid=a4422600a5fee649c2324f8046 6acab8&pid=456736

[Jon Grider]

Not to get sidetracked here, but a question to you Green users, are there any discounts ever on Festool or online places that have them at a lower; or is the price you see at one store pretty much the price everywhere? I've been contemplating a domino for a while but am not ready to pull the trigger. A bit of a price discount may be the incentive to plunge forward. And yes I know that quality costs.....just the cheapie in me always looking for a better deal.

[James MacArthur]

I too have been bitten, got the domino at Christmas.

Now have a CT22 and a PS400 the new jigsaw. Going to get a T15+3 next.

I'm fairly lucky as I'm not long into woodworking, 3 years or so and am only really just starting to upgrade to big boy tools having gone semi-pro so am able to buy festool when I need too.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

You will wonder how you ever did without a rotex.

[Larry Fox]

Sanders are great - ETS150/3 is my go-to sander. I use the Rotex a lot cleaning up shop made veneer as well as other things. As others have mentioned, the Domino is a pretty remarkable tool and were I in your shoes (depending on what you build) I might look into that one as the next purchase. Check out the article by Jerry Work on the Domino, shows the versitility. I think that you can get the link from Bob Marino's site. He is a great guy to deal with and where I make my green purchases.

Bashers will probably be here soon but pay them no mind. Bottom line is that they are wonderful tools, it's your $$ and you can do with it as you please.

[Larry Rasmussen]

I got the same saw and the rail that went with it plus the shortest rail they have. I added an 8' 10 1/2" rail not long after, a 2700/II I believe and that is the crown jewel of the saw set up. It's just really nice to have that capacity. It's also cool not to have to clamp the guides down.

A few years later I have finally added an ETS 150 3 EQ which I am just getting used to, wish I would have done it sooner. I don't have very deep pockets but have not had second thoughts about these purchases- well except possibly when I fired up the saw first time and heard that strange saw noise.

There was a good discussion on the long rails here just a week or so ago.

Congratulations- I found adding a guided rail saw changed my approach to a number of tasks and ultimately my shop set up.

Larry R,
Seattle

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have been Festool infected...now what
Anything related to the saw that's on sale right now would be a wise thing to buy.
The word "sale" is a recent addition to the Festool vocabulary . ;)

I'm not sure - & maybe Bob Marino can chime in - if the clamps, splinter guard and other stuff is included in the 10% off sale or not.

Blades are though, so, an extra blade might be a wise move.

I picked up a 55" rail yesterday from Hartville Tools. I debated all the way down and back if i should get another blade also.
I forgot to ask about the splinter guard..

The splinter guard eventually gets chewed up and needs replaced.

BTW - welcome to the Festool side.
You'll enjoy using them long after the initial sting of the purchase price is gone.
Eventually, they will save you money.
The payback time is considerable though.

Prior to buying my TS55, I actually took the time to sit down and figure out, by square inches, the savings that are possible by eliminating that 1/8" or more waste cut off need for trimming on a TS.
It's more significant than you could imagine.
I figured out that each 4' crosscut had approx $.10 of waste attached to it, allowing for 1/8" of waste on both sides of the cut line and allowing a mean price of $155.00 for quality 4x8 sheet goods.

[Neil Brooks]

The worst I'VE heard it that -- while they make FANTASTIC products -- it's hard to justify the price.

Which ... is fair ... since "value" is an entirely personal decision.

Even my brother (industry insider, and HIGHLY opinionated) can't put down their products; he simply won't pay the freight to join the club.

Me ?

Anybody EVER gave me ANY Festool product (mainly: router !), I'd happily use it for decades :)

[eugene thomas]

i don't have any festool tools yet. thinking of eventually getting the domino, in talking to woodcrafts they rep sade that the 22 and 33 are getting redone with some major changes. anyone know about that?>

[Matt Meiser]

There's a FAQ about that noise somewhere on their web site. Its just the electronic speed control in the saw kicking in. But yeah, it sure sounds bad to a new user.

[Peter Quinn]

a ts is not the only way to make a tenon. i have not ever made a tenon on a ts. a router is a good way to make a tenon.

Agreed, you can make tenons using lots of methods. A router is a good way to make tenons. The TS is also a good method. The op mentioned having a TS, though he didn't mention making tenons at all or having a router or not. The domino can certainly make loose tenons, of that much I am certain.

[Will Blick]

OF all the Festools tools (not counting the vacs as a tool), I would suggest the circular saws have the most value... why?

I have the full 75 saw and accessories. I also have a PM2000 with Incra fence, etc.

Remarkably, I am amazed how much I use the 75 cric. saw. While the TS has some obvious advantages, such as fast repetitive cuts using the fence, it also has some serious limitations.... mainly the size of the wood you can work with, assuming no large accessories on the saw, and often working by yourself. The large accessories to support larger work, often makes the foot print of the cabinet saw so large, its a space hog, and when finished using the TS, you can not put it on a shelf, its a space hog 24/7. While the Festool you can place on a shelf.....

Some situations I use the 75 over the cabinet saw... after edge jointing long boards 5ft+, I want to cut the other side, clean and parallel. With an 7ft board, this requires about 18 ft of cleared out space, and often two people.... in the process of doing this, the wood will sometimes cock just a tad and the TS blade will make some swirls, so the cut is not perfect, not glue up ready IMO... PITA.

OTOH, the Festool, with the parallel guide / fences, it creates a PERFECT cut every time. AND, space requirements is only the length of the board!! This is where Festool shines. Of course, you have longer set up time, but you are assured a perfect glue ready cut, that IMO is worth the price of the saw. Sheet goods? Forget it on cabinet saw with one person.... Festool is the ticket...

So if I only was alllowed one saw, I would take the Festool with accessorries over the PM2k.... B4 buying the Festool, I never dreamed I would make this statement... We never think of portable power tools having this much quality....but the Festool "saw system" is so well engineered, (like a high quality Cabinet saw), and so versatile, albeit sometimes longer set up times, that if you consider this saws price, you should compare it to a high quality TS, not a Borg circular saw. If you want rough cuts, a Borg circ. saw will suffice, if you want perfect cuts, the Festool is the ticket...

I think a lot of flames about this subject is about unfair comparisons. A few recent threads asks this very question.... "festool or TS" - pick one... And IMO, this is the question that matters to many starting out - and confronted with making a substantial purchase decision.

But this can only be answered with the knowledge of the size of the wood the user will be working with. For example, if you want to make small boxes as your main hobby, a TS is the better tool. But if you work with larger boards, or start with sheet goods often, the scales tilt in favor of the Festool... of course, having both is a luxury...

As for my other Festools, I would suggest its the accessories that often separate them from the pack.... in paticular, their routers are a top notch system...the router itself (1400) is superb, but there is many great routers on the market, so it comes down to the versatility of the system, assuming you have a need for those added features the system provides. And whats nice, you share the rail costs over all the tools.

[James Baker SD]

I love my Kapex.
James

[Ray Schwalb]

I was at a seminar one time where Gary Katz, trim carpentry guru, referred to Festools as crack cocaine for carpenters.

Hi, my name is Ray and I'm a (Festool) addict.

[Dan Karachio]

Not to get sidetracked here, but a question to you Green users, are there any discounts ever on Festool or online places that have them at a lower; or is the price you see at one store pretty much the price everywhere? I've been contemplating a domino for a while but am not ready to pull the trigger. A bit of a price discount may be the incentive to plunge forward. And yes I know that quality costs.....just the cheapie in me always looking for a better deal.

Jon, Rarely. They did have 10% off a while ago, but that is over. You will find they have a choke hold on all dealers and the pricing is fixed. It is rarely lower and the same everywhere and you will rarely if ever see anything used.

I own a bunch of their stuff, but I still laugh at the prices every single time. If they made a newly redesigned 14" bandsaw, I am sure it would cost $3500. However, it is the little stuff pricing that really cracks me up. Truly, absolutely no shame from corporate HQ on pricing. However, I love the tools and it only hurt at the cash register, then feels great in the shop.

[Alex Leslie]

The 10% off on TS55, TS75, rails and saw accessories is good until July 31, 2010.

I have a bunch of Festools, including the Domino. Sure, there are lots of ways to make loose tennons, but the Domino is faster and easier. It is not anymore difficult to setup than a bisquit joiner, but offers much more strength.

The dust collection on all tools is phenominal. You will spend almost no time cleaning up after sanding, routing or sawing with their dust extractors; plus they run with much less noise than a screaming Shop-Vac.

There will be two new upgraded duct extractors released in the US this fall; the CT26 and CT36.

[Rick Markham]

I got the bug a little while ago, bought the TS55 and spent the money and got the 2700/II track, get the track while it is on sale. I had a hell of a time justifying the cost of the track... Until I used it, all is forgotten now definitely money well spent. I just broke down a sheet of 3/4" baltic birch ply for a cutting table for my TS 55, had enough left over to make a planer sled, and with almost no waste. I will tell ya what, not wrestling around with a full sheet of plywood by yourself while a table saw is running is money well spent in my book. Granted I'm sure a slider is really where it is at... unfortunately I need a house upgrade for that... One day... One day :D

Currently saving my pennies for the domino... just can't... stay away... :eek:

[Eiji Fuller]

There is no cure for this bug. Sure an empty pocket book will slow it down a bit but you just have to let it run its course. Finally when you have all of them you need the infection has run its course and you have been cured. By then you will have an arsenal of awesome tools. Have fun scouring the catalogs in the mean time. :D

I was very lucky in this. When I was infected and the fever was at its highest point the FOG had WWing contests with tools as winnings and I won a few great tools.

Good luck with your infection. :p

[Tom Rick]

I picked up a used Domino last week.

The way these threads go I am considering smashing the thing to bits or maybe selling it off before I get all wrapped up in the buzz....

I think the only thing that is saving me is a recently fed love of vintage machinery- a 1944 Unisaw with tenoning jig I picked up on Sunday is floating my boat just now. The oddly colored Fes case on the shelf seems like a bit of a poor upstart and gets no love. I fine tool no doubt if one insists on IKEA level joinery.....:D I might even open the case one of these days to peer in with disdain.

[Frederick Gross]

Not to get sidetracked here, but a question to you Green users, are there any discounts ever on Festool or online places that have them at a lower; or is the price you see at one store pretty much the price everywhere? I've been contemplating a domino for a while but am not ready to pull the trigger. A bit of a price discount may be the incentive to plunge forward. And yes I know that quality costs.....just the cheapie in me always looking for a better deal.


Festool is similar to Apple as to their control of pricing. The retailers that sell Festool have the pricing set by Festool. Festool does have promotions from time to time on package deals, but rarely if ever, do they discount individual tools.

Ebay and Craigslist seems to have lightly used stuff show up from time to time.