Grizzly Customer Service

[Hans Braul]

A bit of a good news - bad news story here. I recently bought the 12" jointer and set it up to produce beautiful, straight faces, but was having problems getting the second face exactly square. Turns out the fence was .020" out of flat. I called Grizzly and they immediately shipped me a new fence. When UPS attempted the delivery (I wasn't home) they indicated they required $58 to cover customs brokerage fees. I wrote to Grizzly and they cheerfully agreed the same day to pay the fee. Of course, I'd prefer if the machine had been perfect, but I'm very impressed with the service.

Hans

[Hans Braul]

I spoke too soon. I just checked the replacement fence - it's .042" out. The saga continues...

[glenn bradley]

Grizzly has great prices and sometimes the payback is a little fiddling but they always seem to stay involved until you are satisfied on issues like this. Are you describing a dip along the length? Just curious really as the fence needs to be very near flat.

[Phil Thien]

What are the dimensions and in what direction is it bowed?

I fixed a small fence once with a sanding belt cut open and put down on glass. I rubbed the fence on the sanding belt until it was dead flat.

But that was a smaller fence.

[Dave Wagner]

The wrenches they sent with my G1026 shaper for spindle replacement, just pressed metal, bent the first time using them, they did send new ones, but still the same problems, cheap, pressed tools, i used my good craftsmen wrenches now.

[george wilson]

Old Delta wrenches for their knives were cheap,pressed metal,too,from the 50's. I had to grind down a better wrench thinner to get the gib screws loose.

[Hans Braul]

Grizzly has great prices and sometimes the payback is a little fiddling but they always seem to stay involved until you are satisfied on issues like this. Are you describing a dip along the length? Just curious really as the fence needs to be very near flat.

The fence is about 4' long and is concave along its length by .042". The other one that came with the machine was also concave, but only by .020". The other problem was that there was a significant twist such that I could square the fence at one end and it would be out of square at the other. Hence my problem with getting square surfaces.

Hans

[John Mark Lane]

I wonder how many machines have problems like this, but the buyer doesn't have the knowledge, or tools, to check it. My guess is pretty many.

[Dan Karachio]

I see many posts about how Grizzly does right by sending out new parts and tools, and while that is a very positive thing I have to imagine this cannot be good for the bottom line. Perhaps they have less control over QA than they would like, but to get this right at the manufacturing plant the first time would be ideal. As a customer shelling out big bucks for power tools, I really want this right the first time too.

Also, shipping heavy stuff all over the world over and over has to add up. Too bad we don't make this stuff here any more. I bet US workers could kick a$$ on the quality part... Sigh...

[mreza Salav]

Hans, I'm following this with interest as I have been debating doing some big purchases from them and would like to see how your problems are handled. It sucks to buy such a big machinery and not get a reasonably machined part not once, but twice!

[Erik Lindseth]

I wonder how many machines have problems like this, but the buyer doesn't have the knowledge, or tools, to check it. My guess is pretty many.

Wow, .042" concavity is really signficant. This definitely shakes my faith in Grizzly. Then again, I gotta really agree with the above statement.

[Ruhi Arslan]

At least they are trying to fix it and right away. I bought the JET 12" J/P recently. Infeed side table has a 0.010" dip in the center when measured with a steel straight edge (woodpecker) and fence has a warp that cannot be adjusted. They never even replied to my emails, returned my phone calls. They hae lost one customer forever good after selling only one item.
I am considering a bandsaw and was going to be either a JET or PM but not anymore. Grizzly there it comes.

[Dave Lehnert]

At least they are trying to fix it and right away. I bought the JET 12" J/P recently. Infeed side table has a 0.010" dip in the center when measured with a steel straight edge (woodpecker) and fence has a warp that cannot be adjusted. They never even replied to my emails, returned my phone calls. They hae lost one customer forever good after selling only one item.
I am considering a bandsaw and was going to be either a JET or PM but not anymore. Grizzly there it comes.


I have always had good service from JET. But I have always called, never sent an e-mail.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I will argue it's been decades since "Made in the USA" stood for quality. If you have an hour I will relate how I ordered an '83 full-sized K5 Chevy Blazer and after 41,000 miles, 4 1/1 years the 5th transmission started going out, I got rid of it. If Chevy's customer service had been any good I might have hung on but the regional rep was too calloused too.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Let's get back on topic, please.

This is thread was regarding's Hans' view of Grizzly customer service.

[glenn bradley]

Hans, I'm following this with interest as I have been debating doing some big purchases from them and would like to see how your problems are handled. It sucks to buy such a big machinery and not get a reasonably machined part not once, but twice!

I am reasonably sure the part is machined correctly. The problem comes after surfacing. I'm no expert but have read experts who state that too short a curing period on the CI is a culprit. If this is the case it is a QA issue. Granted the knifed Griz 12" is $1800 but the 12" knifed Powermatic is $4300 with no guarantee of a problem free machine.

Any new machine, regardless of color, that arrives with an issue is . . . well, an issue ;-) It is great to read some of the recent good CS posts regarding WMH Tool Group products. This was not always the case. I would imagine other manufacturer/importers also have checkered pasts if we cared to trace them. I look forward to following the handling of this case.

P.s. I wasn't sure what the "poor quality wrench" posts had to do with this issue? I assume this was just a "character reference" reply(?).

[Larry Frank]

I just read something new in this thread - curing cast iron. It is possible that the casting had some internal stresses due to uneven cooling or too rapid cooling after casting. The machining could have resulted in the internal stresses causing the part to warp. Might be kind of like planning a flat board and suddenly have it warp. If this is the case, an anneal of the cast iron part before machining might relive the stresses before machining and maybe not.

I have often thought about buying Grizzly tools and read some great things about them including the price and customer service. However, I would rather buy a new piece of equipment and have it work right away rather than spending time getting replacement parts. Good customer service does not make up for poor quality control.

[Shiraz Balolia]

I just read something new in this thread - curing cast iron. It is possible that the casting had some internal stresses due to uneven cooling or too rapid cooling after casting. The machining could have resulted in the internal stresses causing the part to warp. Might be kind of like planning a flat board and suddenly have it warp. If this is the case, an anneal of the cast iron part before machining might relive the stresses before machining and maybe not.

I have often thought about buying Grizzly tools and read some great things about them including the price and customer service. However, I would rather buy a new piece of equipment and have it work right away rather than spending time getting replacement parts. Good customer service does not make up for poor quality control.


I think there are many misconceptions and speculations that get magnified out of proportion.

Here are some facts:

1) All of our cast iron tables are stress relieved. Almost everyone else's in the marketplace is as well. It is standard practice and part of the process in both woodworking and metalworking machinery from Asia. This issue has been previously discussed.

2) For every problem you read on this forum, there are at least a thousand satisfied customers that don't have one. If we were shipping out fences left and right and throwing money away on shipping replacement parts to customers in any large quantity, we would have long closed our doors! Understand that this forum, while a great resource, does not even cover 3% of our customer base.

Once in a while a warped fence or a part gets through and we take care of it. We stand behind our products and don't leave customers out in the cold. That's what matters.

[glenn bradley]

I love it when Shiraz chimes in with the straight scoop. Thanks (as usual) Shiraz.

[Hans Braul]

Once in a while a warped fence or a part gets through and we take care of it. We stand behind our products and don't leave customers out in the cold. That's what matters.

Shiraz,
I agree with your statement and the purpose of my post was to praise your customer support. I was surprised that he second fence was twice as bad as the first, but I have every confidence that the situation will be corrected. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Hans

[Paul McGaha]

Hans,

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your new tool.

It is good of you to share this information and I'm sure many are interested in to how this will play out as they may be planning a Grizzly tool purchase.

I have read several posts describing very good customer service from Grizzly so I am thinking this will work out to your satisfaction.

PHM

[Ed Kilburn]

I worked as a Machinist for York, who made compressors. All the production casting were left outside for 1 year or more. They were easy to machine and held sizes. Once in a while we would do a prototype unit with un-aged castings, I can tell you they were a bear to work with, bores would go out of round as you ate lunch. I'm sure no one lets castings sit outdoors for a year anymore.

[Karl Card]

At least they are trying to fix it and right away. I bought the JET 12" J/P recently. Infeed side table has a 0.010" dip in the center when measured with a steel straight edge (woodpecker) and fence has a warp that cannot be adjusted. They never even replied to my emails, returned my phone calls. They hae lost one customer forever good after selling only one item.
I am considering a bandsaw and was going to be either a JET or PM but not anymore. Grizzly there it comes.


as far as band saws go I saw a test in a magazine about 6 months ago where the top of the line 14 inch band saws went up against the grizzly go555.... the go555 one hands down... I do not know however if the upper line grizzly has a good band saw or not. I want one of there 17 inch band bandsaws real bad...

Right now I have an inexpensive Dayton. they sell for 569 new and I got mine for 100 bucks so I bought it.. not to bad of a machine I just have to get me a new saw blade that is worthy of buying...

[Dan Coleman]

Have you checked with a local machine shop about the cost of grinding your fence? Once you have the cost, then suggest to Grizzly to pay for the grinding instead of shipp you another and paying the taxes. They might go for it. At the minimum they should check the next one before shipping it out.

[Chuck Wintle]

Hans,

.020 is not much when it comes to woodworking. Why not have a machine shop re-machine the face to make it perfect? I know grizzly should make it right from the get go but these fences are likley machined from "green cast iron" and will warp no matter what. :D

[John Mark Lane]

Hans,

.020 is not much when it comes to woodworking. Why not have a machine shop re-machine the face to make it perfect? I know grizzly should make it right from the get go but these fences are likley machined from "green cast iron" and will warp no matter what. :D


That's kind of what I was gettting at in wondering how often tolerances like this just go completely unnoticed. We're talking about 20/thousandths of an inch. You could almost sand it flat with a piece of sheet glass, some adhesive and some strips of sandpaper.

Not to suggest things shouldn't be perfect. But perfect is relative to use.

[Rod Sheridan]

0.020" is greater than 1/64", which is what a lot of woodworkers machine parts to.

It's not much for a wood part, it's too much for a cast iron precision part on the reference face of the machine that makes the reference faces in the wood.

I'm sure Grizzly will provide a new fence with suitable accuracy.

Regards, Rod.

[Michael MacDonald]

something heavy like a cast iron fence stands a good chance of being mishandled by UPS... any reason to think it was not straight when it left the factory? probably never know... but isn't cast iron pretty malleable? a hard knock might have caused the "QA problem"...

I once had to go three rounds with sawstop in shipping a fence tube... UPS mistreated the package enough to warp the tube and damage the ends...

Regards,
Mihcael

[Hans Braul]

Another installment in the Grizzly credibility bank. Here's what they wrote me today:

"I am very sorry about this additional problem. I will contact you regarding a replacement fence as soon as possible. I'm not sure if you received it or not, but I did leave a voice message for you last week regarding the matter of the brokerage you paid to UPS. We will be issuing a refund check in the near future to reimburse you for the $58.00 CAD you paid to UPS. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us. Again, I will be in touch regarding a replacement fence as soon as possible."

I expect they will get me a good fence soon and I will be a Grizzly fan for good.

Hans

[Neil Brooks]

I expect they will get me a good fence soon and I will be a Grizzly fan for good.

Please DO let us know how the story ends, will you ?

I would like to hear when the new fence comes in, and ... whether it seems up to snuff.

Thanks, and ... good luck !

[Hans Braul]

Hans,

.020 is not much when it comes to woodworking. Why not have a machine shop re-machine the face to make it perfect? I know grizzly should make it right from the get go but these fences are likley machined from "green cast iron" and will warp no matter what. :D

Doesn't sound like much but the fence is not only concave, it's also twisted. So it's square at one end and not the other. As a result, I get hit and miss results when it comes to squaring stock. To me, if I can't put a square on a piece of 2" x 2" table leg stock that is dead on, then why have I spent close to $3000? So yes I could have a machine shop true it up, but that's not what I paid for.

As for "green cast iron", if the expectation is that we'll just have live with it, then it seems like a lousy deal to me. Certainly from Shiraz's comments and the response I've got from Customer Service, it's not their expectation and they are determined to fix it.

Thanks for the thought.
Hans

[Van Huskey]

I am sure everything will be settled correctly. Although anecdotal 2 outta 2 ain't so good. I am watching this thread closely since that jointer is one of my top two for my new shop.

[Hans Braul]

I am very happy to report that the story ends well. I received the second new fence today and it is perfect. I could not get a .002" feeler gauge in anywhere, no matter which orientation the straightedge was in. I can JUST sneak in .0015" at the lowest spot. In other words, it's essentially perfect.

Of course, when we pay for a product we always hope to get it defect free the first time, so the really impressive thing to me was the customer service. Everyone I dealt with was very courteous and efficient. At no time did I get them second guessing me. The latest shipment was checked in great detail and the guy in the shop called me to discuss exactly how he measured it and to compare how I had measured the faulty ones. Very impressive.

Shiraz, if you are reading this, you should be proud. I'm now your biggest fan.

Hans Braul

[John Mark Lane]

Glad it ended well. I have to wonder, though, if every customer insisted on the level of perfection you require, would Grizzly still be in business?

Just a question...I don't know the answer, of course.

[Hans Braul]

Glad it ended well. I have to wonder, though, if every customer insisted on the level of perfection you require, would Grizzly still be in business?

Just a question...I don't know the answer, of course.

I don't know the answer either but to me it's really simple. If the defect causes me to be unable to get square stock out of my jointer, then it's unacceptable, and I don't feel I'm reaching for "perfection" to insist it gets corrected. I think the folks at Grizzly agree with this assessment. Not sure why but they must have got a bad run from the manufacturer.

[Jim O'Dell]

I agree, I don't think Grizzly would have kept going if it was within tolerance. Maybe the first two were from a bad day in the factory, a new guy on the job, the mix of metals off somehow....one never knows. In the end, it is how a company takes care of the customer, and Grizzly has done that over and over. Glad it's take care of, now you can go make some saw dust with confidence!! Jim.

[Kevin Gregoire]

glad to hear it worked out good for you.
but i emailed grizzly today and told them i wasnt to impressed with there freight company. i ordered my bandsaw and they said it would be here friday morning and no such luck so they called later and said monday morning and again no such luck, so i get another call that it didnt get loaded on the truck since they didnt have anything else coming my way it wasnt important enough to deliver one item.

not impressed so far!

[Paul McGaha]

Hans,

I'm happy for you. Glad the story ended well.

PHM

[Van Huskey]

Glad there was a happy ending to the story!

[Don Alexander]

there really is no substitute for great customer service too bad there is so little of it these days

definitely makes Grizzly a serious contender for my business each and every time i go looking for woodworking machinery

[Shiraz Balolia]

I am very happy to report that the story ends well. I received the second new fence today and it is perfect. I could not get a .002" feeler gauge in anywhere, no matter which orientation the straightedge was in. I can JUST sneak in .0015" at the lowest spot. In other words, it's essentially perfect.

Shiraz, if you are reading this, you should be proud. I'm now your biggest fan.

Hans Braul

Hans - I am glad we got you taken care of. We have some (actually many) very good people at Grizzly, and yes, I am proud of them.