new shop tools?

[steve gard]

I was discussing furniture building using power tools today, starting from scratch what would be your estimate on cost to outfit a shop to produce quality furniture. Tons of variables and I don't want to hear that sarcastic answer, but decent quality tools along the lines of Grizzly.

10k
20k
30k
more?

[Erik Christensen]

all in k$

table saw 1-2
8" jointer spiral 1
15" planer spiral 1.5
SCMS .5
drum sander 1.5
DC 1.5
bandsaw 1
shaper 1.5-2
workbench 1
blades & cutters 2-3
hand tools & misc stuff 1-4

total 13.5-19

advice worth what you paid for it

[Paul McGaha]

Steve,

I think Eric's estimate is pretty close.

I'd say if all new to set up a shop about $20K depending on which machines you selected. Maybe a little more counting absolutely everything.

I'm not against buying tools used also so long as they are really low milage tools. I've seen Craigslist adds of people selling complete shops, with decent tools in them, at a fraction of the cost of new ones.

Good Luck with it.

It's a lot of fun.

PHM

[Will Overton]

If you are talking about a basement/garage hobby shop, you could save quite a bit from Erik's estimate. For example, a $1.5k dust collector wouldn't fit in my shop. If you are looking to go into business, you just may want/need to fill his shopping list.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Erik's got a pretty much complete shop..... Assuming hand tools and asst stuff includes hand power tools, that could be a little low.....

Just adding a jigsaw, circular saw, router/router table table & bits, drill, RO sander, etc etc to some un corded hand tools you're already on the high end. Little things you need add up quick.

[tyler mckenzie]

i'd say 25-30 will get you started. Grizzly is considered to be on the lower end of the quality spectrum.

[Damon Stathatos]

If you're able to set up shop where you have 3 phase available to you, then you can purchase old machines (the ones that were built to last a lifetime) for a fraction of the cost of new single phase. I'm not sure if I would trade many of my older machines for the entry to mid level newer machines aimed at the enthusiast level.

You hear it indirectly every night on the news and it's translates as: the manufacturing base in the U.S. has either gone bust or moved overseas (and they didn't take their machines with them). Internet auctions of those machines take place on a daily basis, dozens to hundreds at a time. After awhile, it's a bit disheartening for me to keep punching them up.

Anyway, I set up a fairly complete shop for around $40k but I bought way too many machines and only use about a quarter of them. That $40k wouldn't buy one or two of these things new.

Check this site out:
http://www.irsauctions.com/index_calendar.asp?flash=0
at the end of the day you can see what sold and the price as well. Add to those prices a 10% commission, rigging, and shipping, but even at that, they're still dirt cheap.

I need to get around to taking some better pics of what I have but here's just a few for your entertainment or interest (in order): Neuman Whitney 26" planer (conical helical head), Northfield 4 18" TS with stock feeder, Porter 20" surfacer (a big, automated jointer with metal 'fingers' that push the wood over the head), Powermatic model 68 12" TS, Powermatic model 90 lathe (this one came from CL), Tannewitz 36" BS.

In a few of the backgrounds, against the wall is some of the cocobolo slabs after milling. The good looking guy lurching over the machines in a few of the photos???...me.

[Dan Karachio]

Whoa, 25-30k? Come on, there are plenty of people with far less who can kick the furniture making a$$ of most people. Alas, I am not one of them, but I know a few. A home hobby shop can be had for under 10k easy. Cut that down 25-40% if you are savvy at getting good deals on used. You don't have to buy it all at once you know.

Table saw: 1k
Band saw: 1k
Jointer: 700
Planer: 300
Miter saw: 300
Dust collector: 350
Drill press: 300
Drill: 200
Bench: 400 build one yourself
Router: 300
Router table: 400
Router bits: 400
Hand planes: 1k
Chisels and saws: 500
Clamps: 500

I am at about $7000 right here. Still need a variety of bits, blades, jigs, measuring and other stuff, but this is the meat.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Obviously depends on if you are a weekend hobbyist or a full-time commercial shop, but <$10k could buy you a very well-equipped hobby shop. If you buy used equipment, you could spend substantially less.

Just adding it up quickly, I think I spent $1,300 on my table saw, jointer, planer, router and table, miter saw, dust collector, and drill press. All were purchased used, and are good or better quality tools. I've probably spent another $1300 on clamps, bits, dust collector duct, blades, sandpaper, etc.

So look through the Grizzly catalog, and add up what you like :)

[Dan Friedrichs]

Whoa, 25-30k? Come on, there are plenty of people with far less who can kick the furniture making a$$ of most people.


Very true - you can't buy skill :)

For a very good example of doing AMAZING work in a small shop with probably much less than $30k of tools, take a look at Dave Diaman's work:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=140948

[tyler mckenzie]

Whoa, 25-30k? Come on,

That gets you a shop that doesn't need to get replaced or upgraded. My estimate was based on someone who builds for their living. My shop (http://tealandgold.blogspot.com/2009/09/our-shop.html) is all used machinery, i've found it's all the little thing that add up quick.

[Dan Karachio]

I suppose the context of the OP isn't quite clear, but I'm thinking of hobby interested people coming in here and reading, "You need 30k to make furniture" and scaring the poor guy/woman away! :) There are many many ways to go. Certainly if I did my shop over I would have made different purchases and spent less, but I have 15k in easily. If I had that same 15k to spend today, boy would things be interesting (less Festool and more old iron). Like you said, it is the small stuff that really adds up. Of course, nobody I know has gone out and bought a complete shop at once. To get *started* making furniture, you certainly don't need everything. For example, start off with a book shelf or simple cabinet type project and you might get by with just a table saw, dado blade, sander and some clamps. I am kicking myself, but a while back I found a site about a guy in Japan, in a dinky apartment in Tokyo with a foot stool as a bench and some hand tools who made beautiful cabinets that, in my life, I could never equal.

Tyler, tell us about your bandsaws! The smaller - is that a 14" WT? Both look awesome!

[Rod Sheridan]

If I knew what I know now, I wouldn't go through the multiple upgrades to get where I am, I'd start with the end machine.

In my opinion unless you're a commercial shop, you can't beat the Euro combination machines for performance, accuracy and functionality.

I'd put $2K to $2.5K for a cyclone dust collector, about $15K for a combo jointer/planer and a saw/shaper or a 5 function combo which includes a slot mortiser.

Add $2K for a bandsaw and $1K for a drill press and you're there except for hand tools.

Felder had a promo a while ago where you bought a combo and they gave you a bandsaw, plenty of deals available now.

As someone who owned high end stuff (General) I wish I had bought a Euro combo at the beginning.

Regards, Rod.

[tyler mckenzie]

Tyler, tell us about your bandsaws! The smaller - is that a 14" WT? Both look awesome!

Dan the smaller one is a 14" Walker Turner! He just got a facelift (http://tealandgold.blogspot.com/)(scroll down a post). The other is a Davis and wells great machine, just started putting it through its paces.

[Jim Rimmer]

Maybe I'm naive but I think some of these estimates are over the top. I made a list awhile back as to what it would take to replace all the major toosl in my shop and add a few I didn't have at the time and I could put together a pretty nice shop for under $5K. Now that doesn't include hand tools, bench, and the various routers, drills, sanders, etc. So double the number and you have a fantastic shop. That would be a shop you could start in and over the years we all would add things but you could at least start a hobby with a nice setup for less than $10K.

Granted, I'm talking about a hobbyist shop. All comments above are null and void in reference to a commercial endeavor.

[Gary Herrmann]

If you wait for sales, buy refurbished tools, buy high quality used tools etc, you can save a whole lot of money. Sometimes you can get really lucky and pay 10% of what something retails for. You can also find never used display models that will go for less than 50% of retail. And if you're willing to refurbish old 'arn, you'll have an amazing shop for very little cash. Patience is the thing.

If you buy it all at once, you won't save a lot of money. Your choice.

[Thomas Williams]

Didn't Fine Woodworking put together a shop for $5000 recently?
I think this is one of those questions that the correct answer would go "Depends . . ."

[Dave Lehnert]

First, are we talking a pro shop or a home shop?

Being a shopsmith owner we always get jumped on about " You can buy a shop full of stand alone equipment for the price of a new Shopsmith" ($3,500) Now all I am seeing is 10 to 20K for a shop full of tools.:confused:

For a Home shop I would think 5K would get you going. I think it would be a mistake to go out and buy all your equipment at once. Not till you find out how you like to work. I own a radial arm saw and have not turned it on in years. Others may use one for every cut and their miter saw sits in the corner.

A woodshop can get very expensive but most tools you buy is a lifetime purchase. You can set up shop cheaper than going out and buying a Ford Mustang like my friend did. His car will be gone in a few years but I will still have my shop of tools.

[Myk Rian]

Why Grizzly tools only?
It can be done for $5k, or less, with quality tools.

[Thomas S Stockton]

To make really nice furniture you can get away with a lot less than you think. I've used some real junk to make some really good furniture. My advice is to pay cash and be patient, you don't need everything at once and if you buy smart you can break even or turn a slight profit when upgrading.
When I started out I had a $200 import bandsaw, 9" contractors saw that had to be screwed to the floor so it wouldn't topple when cutting ply, $100 drill press, one router, a vacuum press I built for $150 and the most expensive tool was a Hitachi jointer/planer. Grand total maybe a couple of grand. The bandsaw eventually broke but I still have the drill press, jointer/planer and pump from the vacuum pump.
I think your better off spending money to improve your skills than thinking that higher quality tools will make your work better.
I would also read a "A cabinetmakers Notebook" by James Krenov most people think of him as a hand tool only guy but he used machines when he felt it was appropriate and in a lot of ways his minimalist attitude is refreshing. He didn't need bridgecity this or lie-nelson that, when he needed a larger square he made one out of wood, probably not as accurate as a Starett but I would argue just as useful.
My feeling has always been it is not the tools that matter but the quality of the work produced, if I walk into a shop and it looks like a catalog for felder or they have every Festool product the first thing I want to see is what they make. I think for some people the shop is the hobby and not the actual woodworking. This is fine but If that person had scaled down their budget and spent 10K on classes they would be well on their to turning out some nice work.
Tom