Amish woodworking shop

[curtis rosche]

I got a new job last week. I now work at an Amish woodworking shop called Newport woodworking. It is Amish owned and operated except for me. They ship all up and down the coast.
A couple weeks ago a question was asked about the Amish workshop and how their techniques differ from ours. Well I can now tell you first hand. They are more precise. We slot check about five peices at every step in the procces with calipers and a micrometer once in awhile.
A few differences from your shop, we have no block planes. Only one chisel. Only one hammer. And only one hand saw. And that saw is a metal saw.
Another difference, our tools are powered by a turbo charged cummins diesel All hydraulic or pneumatic. The only electricity is for the controls on the 36 inch planer and the automatic crosscut saw.
Also. The only machine that has a panic button is the panel sander and the crosscut saw. All the rest are turned on by opening a valve. We have some pretty nice tools.
We have:
An onsrud pin router.
A 36 inch northtech planer
A minimax bandsaw. I think 16inches ?
A delta platinum series shaper
A panel sander from some company in Wisconsin
A kreg pocket hole drill
A delta edge sander
A 12 inch cabinet saw
A 12 inch automatic crosscut saw, you can put a full sheet of plywood in it then push the button and the clamp comes down and the blade drops down and runs across and back
We have a multiple drill drillpress that can fit 16 drills.
A regular drillpress
A dewalt compound mitersaw

Right now it's only 3 of us in the shop working. With one other person assembling and 2 people finishing and staining.

We work just like every other shop.
Any questions about how the Amish work just ask and I will try to explain

[Brian Ashton]

so that's how they get around the evils of electricity, they use air tools...

[Dan Hintz]

so that's how they get around the evils of electricity, they use air tools...
Isn't that like the people who tout the "green-ness" of plug-in electric cars by saying they don't use gas? :rolleyes:

[John Keeton]

Curtis, congrats on the new job!! Sounds like you will have the benefit of a good woodworking education, and perhaps learn a lot more of an interesting group of folks. My sister lives in Amish country in PA, and we have visited many times. Very closely knit society.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Curtis - sounds like you got a great job and will have some interesting experiences that you can build on! Have fun and stay in touch!

Are you scheduled for school this fall?

[scott spencer]

Congrats on the job!

We visited Bird in Hand and Intercourse, PA outside of Lancaster last summer and found it a fascinating experience. We toured an authentic working Amish family farm and was amazed at the technology they use....no traditional electricity supplied by Big Electric Inc., but they definitely have and use technology to produce their own power for lights, machines, running water, etc. The mother's sewing machine was pedal powered, with the daughter's 12v battery powered version sitting right beside it. Several had cell phones.

I wanted to visit an Amish wwing shop but our host didn't know of any nearby.

[David Weaver]

Curtis, I know a couple of amish guys are were trim carpenters and who are now cabinetmakers, and their shops are exactly the same as yours. Pneumatic and hydraulic driven off of (in this case) a 60 horsepower diesel engine.

One of them is a lot more precise than the other - the first guy is one of the better "cabinetmakers for a living" i've met, does super tight work and fast enough to keep food on the table. The other guy is a character, I think without trying to be. He stops at my best man's in-laws every night to get dinner and watch TV until it's bedtime (not every amish guy is married).

They are near carlisle.

And just in case someone thought that amish people aren't competitive, the character of the two brothers waited until his brother was finished with his shop and then built his 1 foot longer so he'd have a "bigger shop" than his brother.

Lots of delta tools with swapped out motors. Not much in the way of hand tools there, either. Nice guys, both of them. Bet the air there can get a little spicy on hot days!

[Belinda Barfield]

Congrats on the job Curtis! It seems that you really enjoy it and let's face it, enjoying your job makes working for a living a whole lot easier!

[Matt Meiser]

so that's how they get around the evils of electricity, they use air tools...

From what's been explained to me, its not the electricity but being wired to the grid. A lot of the shops in Ohio are electric--they just have a big generator out back.

[Mitchell Andrus]

From what's been explained to me, its not the electricity but being wired to the grid. A lot of the shops in Ohio are electric--they just have a big generator out back.

Correct. I've been to an Amish worksite (away from their shop) and they used a portable generator to power 110V hand tools - and a gasoline compressor to power the air tools.

The Amish have to compete with the rest of us.
.

[Dan Hintz]

From what's been explained to me, its not the electricity but being wired to the grid. A lot of the shops in Ohio are electric--they just have a big generator out back.
Now that's something I haven't heard before...

Now I really question why they shun electricity... if it comes from a personal generator (fueled, pun intended, by corporate America), it's okay... if it comes directly from the grid, it's not okay. I don't get the difference. :confused:

[Matt Meiser]

Me either, but then again their are a lot of things about other belief systems I don't understand either. ;)

[Dan Hintz]

Found a clear and concise answer to my own question:

Amish people interpret linking with electrical wires as a connection with the world - and the Bible tells them they are not to be conformed to the world. (Romans 12:2) In 1919 the Amish leaders agreed that connecting to power lines would not be in the best interest of the Amish community. They did not make this decision because they thought electricity was evil in itself, but because easy access to it could lead to many temptations and the deterioration of church and family life

Most of us today would think it impossible to live without the modern conveniences such as electricity and cars. What makes the Old Order Amish unique is not that they get along without modernity, but that they choose to do without it when it would be readily available. The Amish value simplicity and self-denial over comfort, convenience and leisure. Their lifestyle is a deliberate way of separating from the world and maintaining self-sufficiency. (Amish are less threatened by power shortages caused by storm, disaster, or war.) As a result there is a bonding that unites the Amish community and protects it from outside influences such as television, radios, and other influences.
So, in effect, connecting to the grid would be conforming, but running a personal generator allows them to (in some small way) limit how they interact with the outside world. Though the cellphones totally blow that whole idea away!



Very interesting...

[David Weaver]

If you talk to a few different amish types from different orders, you'll learn quickly that you can't really make a logical blueprint of rules and reasons why each ordnung follows them.

A lot of the rules come down from (i think) the bishop and the leadership in each ordnung, so coming up with a uniform description of them is like saying you're going to come up with a book that uniformly describes how all women work.

[Dan Hintz]

David,

I don't think any of us could come up with a book that describes how one woman works!

[scott spencer]

Their power costs are a whole lot cheaper than most of ours, and they're not at the mercy of the greedy conglomerate that controls the rates.....touring that farm made me want to do more to free myself from those crazy utility bills.

I think it's important to realize that the Amish are not a 100% unified people who agree on everything...they're unique and individual minded as any of us. Their choices may not always make a lot of sense to us, and may not always be consistent, but it's great to live in a country where you can choose to be different. I really admire a lot of what they do and what they stand for. They live they want they want to live.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Scott, as someone who is responsible for standby power generation at work, I can guarantee it's far more expensive than buying electricity from the utility.

For straight generation of electricity it's between 2 and 3 times the cost to generate it from a diesl generator, compared to a utility price.

If you go co-gen where you can utilise the waste heat, things change, as you don't have to pay energy costs for the heat that the co-gen now supplies.

Regards, Rod.

[Jim Rimmer]

I visited Amish country many years ago and then read a book about them. As all have said, they are very complex and many different groups. If I had to sum up what I learned from the book in one sentence/paragraph, it would be that their society is based around the horse. Not the horse in itself but the pace of life based around horse-based transportaion and farm equipment. They feel that keeping their lives at the pace of a horse based society is best for them. Now, given the competition in the market place, they oabviously have to work faster. So what I said may not be worth much. :rolleyes:

[David Weaver]

Hi Scott, as someone who is responsible for standby power generation at work, I can guarantee it's far more expensive than buying electricity from the utility.


I agree with that. There's no cheaper way (short of mill power or whatever) to get power to do work than to plug in. Power here is about 15 cents a kw/hr.

A common diesel engine running at moderate load and max efficient RPM can make a little less than 20 hp for an hour per gallon of fuel, call that the max.

746 watts per horsepower (something like that?). so at 100% efficiency, the diesel motor can deliver about 15 kw of power for what...$2.50, $3? (not including maintenance or initial price).

At $2.50, you're pushing 17 cents if you're keeping the motor under load and using all of what it's generating and also converting it to mechanical energy as efficienty as an electric motor (hydraulic and pneumatic definitely don't do that).

But they don't waste a lot and they generally understand the value of a dollar, especially if they have a wife and kids.

[scott spencer]

Hi Scott, as someone who is responsible for standby power generation at work, I can guarantee it's far more expensive than buying electricity from the utility.



I stand corrected...thanks for the info. Is it safe to assume that they consume less electricity for their homes than most of us...? No TV, no AC, fewer lights, etc.

[David Weaver]

One thing they don't spend power on that a lot of us do (well, not me) is running extravagant dust collection system, at least not the amish I know. That's a huge difference in power consumption.

One thing about being amish and spending money. if you spend beyond your means, the bishop takes your checkbook (which if you're amish is like taking your entire wallet, credit cards and all) and has to approve of all of your transactions. At least in central pa, they do.

That's a real problem for the average amishman, because a lot of items and supplies are bought at auctions, etc. You can't buy much at an auction without a checkbook.

[Dave Lehnert]

Just a month or so ago I was in a Amish Hardware store and they had Bosch sliding miter saws that were air powered for sale.

I would like to know about their finishing of wood products.
Everything is sanded to perfection and the stain and topcoat are perfect and clear. Like nothing I have ever seen in any shop or store.
What they use and the process involved.

Thanks!

[curtis rosche]

Steve, i am going to Millersville in the fall for engineering.

as for the amish and generators and such,,, the amish in this area are much less strict than in other areas,,, and they dont have generators at home, its only allowed if it is for work. they have to make a living, but if it is in the house or for personal use, it is highly frowned apon

[Matt Meiser]

I think that's generally true in Ohio as well. A number of the houses have solar panels or windmills now though.

[curtis rosche]

thats only to charge important things, like the batteries for the lights on the buggy required by law,,, now some of them add extra things though

[Brian Ashton]

From what's been explained to me, its not the electricity but being wired to the grid. A lot of the shops in Ohio are electric--they just have a big generator out back.

Well I learned something today. I thought they pretty much tried to keep to technology that is 250 years old or older.

[John O'Brien]

Curtis;

Does your shop make dining room sets? We're in the market for one, and plan on driving to PA on Tuesday to look at some Amish made ones.

Pleasant Valley furniture was one on our list. Recommendations????

Thanks

[Ron Conlon]

Well I learned something today. I thought they pretty much tried to keep to technology that is 250 years old or older.

Yeah, me too! A few years back my wife and I were driving out of Lancaster county and I spotted an Amish guy outside his house using a weed-whacker. I thought I had witnessed some kind of heresy! Guess it makes sense now. Damn, I always loved telling that weed-whacker story.

[Tom Winship]

[QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;1473902]Hi Scott, as someone who is responsible for standby power generation at work, I can guarantee it's far more expensive than buying electricity from the utility.


Rod, I understood Scott to mean that their total power costs were cheaper than ours, simply because by not being connected they don't use as much. I agree per unit of measure, it is much more expensive.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, me too! A few years back my wife and I were driving out of Lancaster county and I spotted an Amish guy outside his house using a weed-whacker. I thought I had witnessed some kind of heresy! Guess it makes sense now. Damn, I always loved telling that weed-whacker story.

That was probably a mennonite. Either that, or the guy was just breaking the rules, as that's definitely not allowed in any old order amish likely to still be around lancaster.

In an odd twist of what's OK to sell but not OK to use, there is (or at least was) an amishman dealing power equipment near carlisle. A buddy of mine has bought equipment from him, as he's reasonable, and he does payment plan on a handshake (i.e., this mower is $900, you bring me $50 a month for the next 18 months and we'll shake hands on it). Went to his shop one morning after it snowed, and buddy who bought the mower said (i'll leave his name out just in case there's somehow this would get him in trouble) " ____, what did you use to get your driveway open". The amish owner looked at him like he was nuts, and said "uh....a snowblower?". Buddy of mine said "that's not allowed", and the owner just shrugged his shoulders at him and smiled :D

[David Freed]

Congrats on getting the job.

I live by and my employer is in a very large Amish community in southern Indiana. As some have already stated, the rules vary widely from one community to another, and it is the bishop that decides what the rules are. Many of the Amish cabinet shops and construction contractors in my area have forklifts, skytracks, skidsteers, tractors, etc. I delivery to Amish in many different states. At one store in Iowa, they have a forklift, but aren't allowed to drive it. I drive it and put the material where they want it. Another store in Iowa is only allowed to use a manual chain hoist to unload (real slow). A couple stores in Michigan have a manual chain hoist converted to be run by a gas engine (quite a bit faster). One store in a far upstate New York Amish community is owned by an English (the Amish name for us) that lives in a one room shack with electricity, and has 2 Amish families living on his property that work for him. He has forklifts, but his help isn't allowed to drive them. I start unloading with the forklift while all 3 of them milk the cows (by hand) and feed the livestock. when they get done they come help.

[curtis rosche]

we make stuff for pleasant valley
we make corner hutches and some cabinets,, we dont make dining room tables
but we make magazine tables and things
stop by if you want
3982 E Newport Rd (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&num=1&t=h&vps=2&jsv=260d&sll=40.020934,-76.066341&sspn=2.601253,2.482004&hl=en&ie=UTF8&geocode=Fdq2YgId8Dx3-w&split=0)http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/transparent.png

Gordonville, PA 17529
"narvon woodworking"