Hand Plane Advice From Those In The Know

[Todd Young]

Looking for some advice on a few hand planes I grabbed form a local estate sale. Apologies up front for some pretty ambiguous questions.

I know absolutely NOTHING about hand planes and their uses......how to set them up, use them properly, sharpen, what to use which of them for....basically anything you need to know about them, I don't. I plan to get some books and read up on the how to's and what not's, etc, but figured I'd lob out to the SMC experts for some input. Been reading up on Blood & Gore about them, but get a bit overwhelmed there.

I grabbed the following:
Stanley/Bailey # 5 (corrugated base)
Stanley/Bailey No. 5 1/2 (corrugated base)
Stanley No. (not sure which but seems to be a version of a # 4) - dims are 9 1/4 long by 2 1/8 wide (smooth base)
Stanley # 78

I figured I couldn't go wrong to drop less than $15 for all 4 and see if I couldn't get some much needed experience with them, especially knowing the guy that owned them prior to the estate sale did a lot of Neader work and had a good rep for his quality. He was in his early 80's and these look to be tools from pre WWII. I took the chance that they were vintage Stanley products, and for less then $15 for the lot, I couldn't go that wrong if they weren't.

To do some beginning work with these tools that intimidate me, is there more I should have in a starter set? Is this enough to get by with, or will the combo above leave me missing a link (or more) in the plane chain that should fill out a good beginning combo set? I think there are stages to where to use certain planes and I have a feeling I'm missing as few pieces to the puzzle here that may bruise my fragile Planer Psche once I start to shave wood with them. I know this is probably contingent on what I'll be using them on, but for now, just some inexpensive woods to where if my technique leaves me with over priced kindling, my wife won't divorce me.

I have a low budget block plane that's a hand me down of a hand me down, etc......

I've heard about numerous other planes and am not sure of their uses yet. I know there are many specialty planes, but just looking to see if this combo may be a decent way to get started with them and get some time under my belt, or if there's one that absolutely needs to be included in a beginner set that is not included here.

T

[Kevin Lucas]

Welcome to the creek. Ok now that's gloat worthy ) The N0 5's and the 4 are a good start. Check to see if they are all have flat soles. For sharpening it is either sandpaper on glass, granite etc.. something nice and flat. Or you can use water or oil sharpening stone.

For working your own stock down you're off to a good start. The 5 and 5 1/2 are "jack" planes good for taking good sized shavings and getting boards flat.
Most folks use a jointer a 7 or an 8 next to really smooth the rough work and flatten it next. Also good for making flat edges for making panels etc.
The 4 plane is a smoother for taking light passes and cleaning up the roughness and marks left from flattening and leaves an great finish. The no 78 I don't know but you're in the right spot for info. A block plane is good for end grain, chamfering edges and a lot of tasks. The knowledgeable folks here can talk you through sharpening and setting up the planes.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Todd, I mentioned to my wife on the third of July that I was interested in hand planes, bought my first used one at a flea market the next day, and have purchased three others, plus a draw knife, a hand scraper and spoke shave since then. I've tuned one little 3 1/2 inch plane, so I hardly qualify as a someone in the know. I checked out "The Hand Plane Book" by Garrett Hack from our local library, and found it very helpful. He also has a book "Classic Handtools" which I've read and equally enjoyed.

Like you, I'm counting on fellow creekers for more information. Good luck with the new to you tools.

[Scott MacLEOD2]

Go to the woodworking magazine blog and search planes. More info than you can take at one sitting. Mr. SCHWARZ has a pretty decent book on the subject too.

[Jim Koepke]

You have a pretty good gloat there.

You can find some good information to help you get started in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs thread that is near the top of the Neanderthal Haven Conference.

Bob Smalser and I have both written information about old hand planes. Check subheading #7 Rehabbing Old Tools.

In the Rehabbing old chisels thread, Bob covers sharpening. He uses oil stones, but the theory is pretty much the same no matter what kind of set up you use. One difference is with abrasive papers, the work is done on a pull stroke because the paper has a tendency to buckle in front of the blade if you do the pressure on the push stroke.

I use oil, water and sheets. It all depends on what is being sharpened at the time.

Hey, post some pictures if you can and we can help you determine the dating of your new toys.

If the #4 doesn't say Bailey on it, it could be pre-1902.

As for what else may be good to have, a low angle block plane is always a good plane to have for working on end grain and breaking sharp edges.

A joiner might be in order if you work longer stock. I do use a #5-1/2 like a joiner at times.

The #78 is a rabbet plane. If you are lucky, it came with the side guide.

Have fun, and if you have more questions, there are sure to be more answers.

jim

[Rick Markham]

Todd, lots to learn... but very rewarding! Welcome to the Creek, and the slippery slope of handtools. Look at the top of the neanderthal section for the sticky with Frequently Asked Questions, its a great place to start.

Garrett Hacks book is awesome, I second that! There are a couple great David Charlesworth books, Furniture making I and II that are awesome references and he is very analytical to why and what makes a plane function better and to the best of its potential. (the first one is especially great intro to planes, the second one get deep in differences in irons, chipbreakers etc.) He is a great reference for tweaking them get the full potential here.

Do lots of reading here, there are numerous Guru's on Fettling, and tweaking your planes here. (I'd mention names but I don't want to leave anyone out) We are largely friendly here... Ask any questions you can think of, you will receive a vast amount of great advice/ knowledge here.

My advice is always, see if someone around here lives in your area and is willing to share some first hand, hands on experience. It speeds up the learning curve. (I didn't have that opportunity, but think it's probably the quickest way to learn the basics) It's all very simple, but sometimes doesn't seem that way.

As far as to round out your "beginners" set (which by the way, is one heck of a grab!) I would vote for a no.8, or no.7 jointer. Then you will have the three basic requirements of a coarse plane, a medium plane, and a fine plane. But first you should get those all fettled and running smoothly, keep your eyes open for the jointer, by the time you get all your current ones fettled and running good, you will be well experienced and ready to rock and roll with em!

[scott spencer]

$15 for all 4 is a good buy if they're not in great shape, and a steal if they are. How about a pic?

[Todd Young]

Pics attached. Wasn't sure if their condition deemed them gloat worthy at this point.

They don't look to be in the best of shape, but for $14 total I didn't expect them to be. Hoping a little sweat equity and a good cleaning will be able to rescue them if they're rescue-able. There's rust to take care of for sure. None of the base's looked cracked which I understand is the first place to check if they're able to put to use.

If they're just somewhat usable (or better), I'll consider myself lucky. If they're not, I'll chalk it up to good experience. I got some tips on cleaning from another post that Jim had some detail in.

What I think is the #4 doesn't have Bailey on it anywhere. I hope I identified them as they are.

Check out the pics and let me know if you thing they're able to be rescued to at least get me started using them.

Thanks for all the tips and direction, fellas. I'll hopefully put it all to good use.

[Jim Koepke]

The #4 looks like it could be a Stanley Defiance model. They can be whipped into pretty good shape.

The #5 looks to be 1933 or later. Can't really tell with out some closer looks at the wood and frog. The wood looks like it may be an American hardwood instead of rosewood. I can see the "band" at the edge of the heel.

The #5-1/2 looks to be a type 10, 1910-1919.

The lever for the blade adjustment on the #78 dates it to 1925 or later.

They all look quite useable.

jim

[George Sanders]

Let me be the first to say....YOU SUCK!!!:eek: (That's a compliment) Fifteen bucks for 4 planes? Looks like you just stepped on a banana peel on the slippery slope. Look out and enjoy the ride.

First, get them sharp. Second, use them. You don't have to have top of the line tools to do good work. I have a cheap block plane and it gave surprising results when sharpened.

Working with hand tools is an acquired skill that comes with practice. If you get hung up all you have to do is post a question on this forum and someone will point you in the right direction.

[jerry nazard]

Looks like you just stepped on a banana peel on the slippery slope. Look out and enjoy the ride.

George,

That is funny! Thanks for the laugh!!

-Jerry :D

[Todd Young]

I had a feeling if they were deemed useable I'd get some comments along those lines. :D

I couldn't believe each of them has a less than $5 price tag on them. Grabbed all that were there.

Jim, you're correct. The handle on the #4 does say Stanley Defiance, and I was thinking that may have just been a version of the handle and that it was maybe a handle the had been replaced. I was looking on the iron frame for the insignia.

Jerry, I see you're from Richmond. I grew up there. West side of town about two miles from Regency Square in Wedgewood Park. I know there's a Woodcraft there in Willow Lawn (or at least there used to be). Any other good wood shops in town you can recommend checking out?

I haven't lived there for close to 15 years, but I get back there every now and again to vist some family.

Thanks again for all the advice guys, absorbing what I can so far.

T

[scott spencer]

Oh they're gloat worthy alright! ...the #5-1/2 is sweet and could be worth ~ 4x what you paid for the whole lot of them.

[jerry nazard]

Jerry, I see you're from Richmond. I grew up there. West side of town about two miles from Regency Square in Wedgewood Park. I know there's a Woodcraft there in Willow Lawn (or at least there used to be). Any other good wood shops in town you can recommend checking out?

I haven't lived there for close to 15 years, but I get back there every now and again to vist some family. T

Todd,

The Woodcraft moved last year to Gaskins and Broad: quite a hike from Willow Lawn. Aside from Harper Hardware, nothing much else pertaining to woodworking. Enjoy the planes and watch out for those banana peels....:D

-Jerry

[Dan Andrews]

Sorry Todd, they are all rusted way beyond being salvageable. I'll give you $20. for them just 'cuz I'm a nice guy. :D

Actually, I love my Stanley #5. (type 11 circa 1915) It was way worse than the planes you got, and with a little TLC it is now the sweetest running plane I own. Congrats on a great gloat.

[Trey Palmer]

Todd,

Man, that is an incredible deal for those four planes. They're in pretty good shape, too. Each of my planes cost at least as much as you paid for all four of yours, mostly in similar condition. Those planes will clean up great.

Being all of one month removed from where you are, here's my newb-rampup fettling list. Mostly these are the things that were non-obvious to me, so my apologies if any or most of this is obvious to you. Also a caveat for the more experienced (pretty much everyone but me and Todd): these aren't the "right way", they're just how I managed to get my planes working well starting from zero knowledge....

1. The chipbreaker tip needs to be ground, almost sharpened, so that its front lies flat on the iron under tension. Otherwise you will get chatter, and/or shavings will go up between it and the blade.

2. The chipbreaker needs to be closer to the edge of the iron than was obvious to me. The finer the shaving, the closer it should be. For coarser work you have to back it off to keep from clogging the mouth. 1/16" off the edge will keep your #4 from chattering during final smoothing.

3. The frog's bevel should normally be more or less in line with the bed's throat bevel.

4. The lever cap should snap down, but it shouldn't take undue effort to snap it down.

5. A perfectly square edge works well on jack planes and jointer planes (which you'd use the #5 1/2 for out of that set). You can skew the blade in a jack plane to hog off more material quickly. However on your #4 plane you want a very slight taper at each end of the edge, so you can do final smoothing without cutting sharp lines into your workpiece. This was the final piece of the puzzle for me to generate my first really wispy shavings.

6. The sole doesn't have to be perfectly flat, but the mouth area does. A belt sander makes short work of evening the rest of the sole with a slightly hollowed mouth.

7. Stanley still sells parts, new, for your #78 fillister and you can order them online for reasonable prices (but more than you paid for the plane, alas). You need the fence and the nicker if you don't have them. I don't have the depth stop myself but I imagine it's useful and will be getting one. You want the blade very slightly proud of the right edge of the plane, and the nicker should be at least even with the edge of the blade for cross-grain work. You don't need it for rabbets along the grain.

And with all that we come to the most dreaded thing by far....

You have to sharpen, but the widely recommended solution (Norton waterstones and a good honing jig) would cost 10 times what you paid for the planes.

For me as a low-budget newb, sandpaper adhered to float glass has worked great. The first place I found fine-enough grit wet-dry sandpaper was an auto parts store which had half-sheet packs to 2000 grit. With 2000 or 2500 grit you can achieve a mirror polish. But only if you use a sharpening jig, unless your hands are steadier and much more naturally gifted than mine. My planes just hacked at the wood until I swallowed hard and shelled out for a honing jig. I bought the Veritas MkI, but I wish I'd just gulped and bought the MkII.

Okay that was long but hopefully it's moderately helpful, fresh from the mind of someone also just finding his way.... :)

[Jim Koepke]

Well Trey, I would say you have gotten it all pretty well working for you.


The lever cap should snap down, but it shouldn't take undue effort to snap it down.

This could be one area where everyone pretty much does it the same but describes it differently.

My method works for me, but that does not mean it is right. The screw that holds the lever cap seems to make a lot of difference in the tension even with just 1/16 of a turn when it is at the sweet spot.

My bench planes are all set so the adjustments can be made with the lever cap secured. Again, I have not seen anything to tell me that is correct, but it seems to work fine. If the adjustments do not hold, then the lever cap screw gets adjusted tighter. Of course this is done after the tension is released from the lever cap. I do not worry about the lever cap moving when the blade is retracted. That is why the "kidney" slot was developed.

jim

[Trey Palmer]

Well Trey, I would say you have gotten it all pretty well working for you.

This could be one area where everyone pretty much does it the same but describes it differently.

My method works for me, but that does not mean it is right. The screw that holds the lever cap seems to make a lot of difference in the tension even with just 1/16 of a turn when it is at the sweet spot.

My bench planes are all set so the adjustments can be made with the lever cap secured. Again, I have not seen anything to tell me that is correct, but it seems to work fine. If the adjustments do not hold, then the lever cap screw gets adjusted tighter. Of course this is done after the tension is released from the lever cap. I do not worry about the lever cap moving when the blade is retracted. That is why the "kidney" slot was developed.



That's a good way to put it, the lever cap should be as tight as it can be and allow you to still adjust the plane. Definitely a quarter turn of the cap screw is significant. Two of my bench planes are type 9-11 with smaller knobs and their caps have to be a little looser than the newer planes to allow depth adjustment.

[Todd Young]

Trey, thanks for the details. I've yet to get to the sharpening / cleaning . etc on these, but I think I have some of the tools needed for the job. What I'm lacking is the experience of use of them, but I am looking forward to getting that soon.

I have the Veritas Mark II, a few granite slabs, the Norton waterstones (total combo's of 800 / 1000 / 4000 / 6000 grit) and the Delta 8" bench grinder (w/white oxide wheel).

Also in line for a good sharpening are a new set of Narex chisels (first set owned), along with some older chisles in the arsenal.

I've been busy completing a honey do project for the last month or so (6x15x8 shed) and haven't gotten to the sharpening. Mainly because everything that went into the newly completed shed was stacked up in front of my workbench so I had to complete one to get to the other.

I've been absorbing what I can from this thread, checking some others (as mentioned in this thread) and about to pull the trigger on a book or two to help the process along.

You guys are all giving me good tips here and it's greatly appreciated. Once I get them cutting into some wood, I'll pony up on how well I'm putting all this intel to use.

T

[Trey Palmer]

Trey, thanks for the details. I've yet to get to the sharpening / cleaning . etc on these, but I think I have some of the tools needed for the job. What I'm lacking is the experience of use of them, but I am looking forward to getting that soon.

I have the Veritas Mark II, a few granite slabs, the Norton waterstones (total combo's of 800 / 1000 / 4000 / 6000 grit) and the Delta 8" bench grinder (w/white oxide wheel).

Also in line for a good sharpening are a new set of Narex chisels (first set owned), along with some older chisles in the arsenal.

T

I also bought a set of Narex chisels in the last month. :D They are very easy to sharpen. Otherwise you are much better equipped than I am, including possession of a workbench and enough yard space for a mid-sized shed... :(

[Gary Benson]

Todd,
Where in Denver are you located? I am just south of the Cherry Creek mall and have fixed up a number of planes, chisels, and saws. I have a pretty good working knowledge of these items and may be able to point you in the right direction if you hit a tough spot. "Creeker visits" as they are called are always fun.
Gary

[Todd Young]

I'm down in Centennial about 5 miles east of Southlands. Not far at all.

I head down to St Joe's at midtown (Franklin & 17th) every now and again and roll right past CC Mall on the way there. I play hockey down at Magnuss from time to time, or shoot down to Orvis at CCM for some fishing gear. I get around that area relatively frequently.

If I get caught up, I'll defintely reach out. Thanks for the offer. I can always use a push in the right direction.

T

[Jim Koepke]

That's a good way to put it, the lever cap should be as tight as it can be and allow you to still adjust the plane. Definitely a quarter turn of the cap screw is significant. Two of my bench planes are type 9-11 with smaller knobs and their caps have to be a little looser than the newer planes to allow depth adjustment.

The depth adjuster is where I often cheat. I bought a bunch of the larger adjusters and changed them out on most of my earlier planes.

jim