Removing a broken screw from a plane body?

[Niels Cosman]

Hi all,
I recently bought an old Stanley No.2 with a busted front knob that someone "fixed". When the plane arrived I found that the knob was half wood putty that had been stained to match the top half of the knob. The worst part is that the threaded rod and nut had been replaced with a bolt that wasn't budging. In the process of removing the putty knob the top of the screw sheared off and is stuck in the sole. Anybody got any advise about how to proceed?

Has any body had luck with using screw extractors in this situation?

i've got the part soaking in penetrating oil now, and I'm going to give the extractor a stab in a day or two. It's a fair guess that that bolt did not have the correct threading and is probably cross threaded in the socket. My fear that it might also have been glued.

cheers,
Niels

[Frederick Gross]

It sounds like your best bet is to pick-up an E-Z out kit/bits. They consist of sets of drill bits and reverse threaded bits similar to taps.

You first dril a hole in the snapped off screw/bolt and then turn the threaded bit down in the hole. When the threads on the bit engage, you can turn out the screw.

Here is an example of what I am talking about:

http://www.toolprice.com/category/screwextractors/

[harry strasil]

If the screw is broken above the plane threads, place the plane on something solid and clamp it down and then using a small pair of visegrips clamped to the screw body, lightly tap on the top of the screw body with a small hammer of some sort while putting a little pressure on the visegrips to unscrew it.

FWIW, so called easy outs are actually hard outs and expand the broken stud making it harder to get out and eventually the end of the hardout will break off in the hole, Hanson makes a set of very efficient screw extractors that work well if the stud is not gaulded in.

[harry strasil]

these are what I was referring too. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1290707&kw=screw+extractors&origkw=screw+extractors&searchId=49707126683

In my 55+ years of Blacksmithing, Welding and Machine work I have removed literally thousands of broken bolts, studs and screws. I normally weld on to them to remove them, the smallest I have ever removed by the welding on method was a 4/40 in a RR machine.

[Matt Radtke]

If you aren't concerned with collectability, you could always drill out busted screw, fill with JB Weld, and re-tap the hole.

[harry strasil]

this is a picture of a 6/32 broken machine screw end welded to a 3/16 rod that will check your nerves and steadyness. It was broken off flush.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/stud-5.jpg

[Niels Cosman]

Thanks for all the food for thought!

Jr.- love the welding technique! I think I'm going to go the extractor route, but I'm going to store that techneque in my toolbox for the future.

Matt- i was thinking along these lines if the extraction went south. I'm gunning to put this plane back to work, not put it on a shelf.
Plus, I'm going to have to turn a new front knob anyway( I'll probably end up making a tote to match) so the collectors value's already gone kaput.

[Jim Koepke]

FWIW, the front knob on the type 6 and earlier #45 is the same size as the knob used on a #2.

+1 on what Harry said about easy outs.

I think it would be easier to carefully drill and re-tap the hole.

The 12-20 taps are available from Victornet.com They have a $25 minimum order. I bought three taps and ground one down in an attempt to make a bottom tap. It works, but has broken a few threads each time it is used. Eventually, I will have to make another one with the remaining extra tap. Next time I will be more careful.

The things you learn simply by looking…

Went out to the shop to take some pictures.

156324 156325


The knob on the left is from a #2 of about the type 10 era. #2s did not follow the type study like other models. The knob on the right is from a type 4 #45. I learned the boss on the #2 is a little bigger than on the #45 so the knob would need a slight modification to work. Also what is even more amazing is the bolts are different. The #2 uses the same as all the other bench planes but the #1 which is a 12-20 thread. The #45 has a 12-28 bolt.

jim

[Tony Zaffuto]

I second what Harry said!

Let the penetrating oil work a bit. If you got fine enough of a punch, maybe you can tap on the broken stud in the direction it turns. If this doesn't do the trick, maybe take it to a machinist friend for help (a #2 does have a bit of value), just make the machinist friend is actually a machinist and not a "ham & egger".

[David Woodruff]

I have had excellent luck with heat, not red hot heat, just enough heat to accomplish a bit of expansion. Also have drilled out hollow after grinding flat on top to keep the drill bit from wandering.

[Floyd Mah]

If you have bit of screw above the casting, use a small file or bit of hacksaw and slot the exposed part of the screw. Then use a flat screw driver and perhaps a little heat from a hot air source.

[harry strasil]

FWIW dept, to drill a hole in the center of a broken stud, first center punch well, making a nice depression to start a drill bit, then using a drill press and having the piece clamped down to the table and using a machinists double ended center drill, start the hole. If you don't use some kind of thread cutting oil you run the chance of breaking the end of the center drill off in the stud tho.

[Niels Cosman]

Jim- Really interesting about the knobs- woundI'll be keeping my eyes open for one of those. However I think my no.2 is a either a type 12 or 13 with a high knob style. It's funny, i was just looking at my no.386 jointer gauge knob, it's probably a perfect no.1 replacement (if i were so lucky as to need one!) I'll definitely be picking up some taps 12-20 taps thanks for the source. The threading is probably mangled- retapping is probably the best option

david- a little heat couldn't hurt

jr- the FWIW department: where great info's always on sale

[Jim Koepke]

Jim- Really interesting about the knobs- woundI'll be keeping my eyes open for one of those. However I think my no.2 is a either a type 12 or 13 with a high knob style. It's funny, i was just looking at my no.386 jointer gauge knob, it's probably a perfect no.1 replacement (if i were so lucky as to need one!) I'll definitely be picking up some taps 12-20 taps thanks for the source. The threading is probably mangled- retapping is probably the best option

david- a little heat couldn't hurt

jr- the FWIW department: where great info's always on sale

You are welcome on the tap source, they have a lot of neat stuff to get the money to just dance out of your wallet. I just wish they had the dies for all the odd threads and sizes.

I have had some luck threading shafts to 12-20 using a Little Giant adjustable die set for 1/4-20.

Does your #2 have a ring around the bottom of the knob cast in the base? If not, it might be easier to switch to low knob if you do not mind a bit of Frankenplaning.

The #1 knob replacement is easier to get from a broken #98 or #99 side rabbet. The post & nut from those will actually fit a #1. The main difference is the nut is nickel plated.

Have fun & good luck,

jim

[Niels Cosman]

hahaha- frankenplaning!

my plane hasn't got a ring- but I prefer the looks of a high knob (plane vanity:) i suppose).

[Roy Lindberry]

Hi all,
I recently bought an old Stanley No.2 with a busted front knob that someone "fixed". When the plane arrived I found that the knob was half wood putty that had been stained to match the top half of the knob. The worst part is that the threaded rod and nut had been replaced with a bolt that wasn't budging. In the process of removing the putty knob the top of the screw sheared off and is stuck in the sole. Anybody got any advise about how to proceed?

Has any body had luck with using screw extractors in this situation?

i've got the part soaking in penetrating oil now, and I'm going to give the extractor a stab in a day or two. It's a fair guess that that bolt did not have the correct threading and is probably cross threaded in the socket. My fear that it might also have been glued.

cheers,
Niels

I've gotten excellent results using the Prazi screw extractor (http://www.praziusa.com/grabit.html). That was, however, not normally on stuck screws, but just screws with no head or stripped heads.

[Jim Koepke]

One thing I forgot to mention was left hand drill bits.

They are available in many places. Here is a little blurb from one site that showed up on a Google search:

Tip: If you use a left-hand bit to drill the hole in a broken screw or bolt so you can extract it, the odds are good that the very act of drilling will remove the broken screw without ever needing to use the extractor. Your drill must be running in reverse when you use left-hand bits.

jim

[harry strasil]

left hand drill bits do work depending on how tight the broken piece is, and how strong the drill bit is.

If however the broken piece doesn't come out before you have drille all the way through, use the next size bit with a little starting pressure and the bit may seize in the hole and unscrew the offending piece.