MiniMax S45N bandsaw?

[Russ Denz]

Hey all,
There is a wealth of bandsaw knowledge - and experience - out there among Creekers and I'd like to tap into some of it if you please.

I currently have a 2004 MM16 and like it, but we're moving from NC back to AZ and moving the MM is not an option. I'm selling it and looking for a bs to replace it in the desert.

I don't do much resawing so I'm not looking for another MM16 but I do like the Italian Stallions; looking at the specs of Minimax's S45N, it seems like the perfect bandsaw for my purposes, but I've not been able to find much experiential information on it anywhere I've looked. Frankly the lack of popularity on that saw is almost suspicious, making me wonder what's wrong with that saw.

Can anyone shed some light on that OR offer up another of the European or US saws that is similar? Basically a Euro or US made 18" saw with ~12" resaw capability in the low $2k range. Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks!
Russ

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Can anyone shed some light on that OR offer up another of the European or US saws that is similar? Basically a Euro or US made 18" saw

US made?
Where have you been the last ten years?

[Russ Denz]

you must be referring to my mention of US-made saws, so let me clarify.

It was a RARE stroke of political correctness on my part, but you're not going to let me get away with it. I am NOT interested in the Asian-made saws; there, I've said it - next...

[Rod Sheridan]

You could also look at Hammer/Felder for Euro band saws.

A couple of times a year they have promotions, a quick e-mail to them will allow you to obtain pricing.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. Contrary to what their website says, the tables tilt to 45 degrees.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Russ,

I have two MM S45's. I have one for regular sawing and another with a 3/4" blade for resawing. The saws are very good saws. There is one problem I have run into. I resaw 9" oak with no problem with a timberwolf blade. I wanted to switch to a carbide blade. However, MM tells me that the S45 will not tension carbide blades. The spring is not strong enough. I have not pursued the issue. They said it would not tension a 3/4" blade, but I did not ask about a 1/2" carbide blade. I am looking into getting a larger saw that will tension carbide blades.

If you don't want to use carbide blades, the saw is very good. If you have any questions please ask.

Sam

[Steve Peterson]

I got it from CL at a good price, but you are correct that there is not much online information regarding that saw. Maybe they don't import many of them into this country.

The S45N appears to be a stripped down version of the MM16. It has a smaller motor and possibly thinner metal, although it is still a heavy duty saw. One feature that I see in a lot of new saws is a dial to raise and lower the upper guide. The S45N has a knob that you loosen, then grab it with your hands and move the guide.

The new list price appears to be around $2200 vs $2800 for the MM16. It is not a surpise that the MM16 is much more popular than the S45N. I suspect that you will be disapointed if you sell the MM16 at the used price, then pay additional money to buy a new S45N. The S45N is a good saw, but probably does not compare to the MM16 that you are used to.

If there is any way to move the MM16, I would try to do it.

Steve

[Russ Denz]

Interesting points, Sam, especially about the carbide blades, because I have a few of them and like them. In fact, it was carbide's preference for the larger wheel size - 18 instead of 16 - that led me to the S45N, that and the fact that my MM16 and the S45N use the same size (length) blade, AND that the S45N supposedly handles the smaller 1/4" blades better. Hmmm, that spring could be a deal breaker for me.

Steve made a good case for keeping my saw but we're rapidly running out of room and I have to take the stuff I can't replace, my bandsaw not being one of them.

I'm also looking at the Agazzani 18" saw but don't have the specs or pricing yet. I did check the Felder 500 as someone else suggested, but gagged at the price tag.

Fortunately I still have some time since the For Sale sign is still up in the driveway. Keep it coming

[Sam Layton]

Russ,
I have the MM S45. It is over 10 years old. I don't know how different the S45N is. I would assume it is the same spring, but I don't know. The saw is very good in every other respect. You could call MM and ask there tech guy.

Sam

[Russ Denz]

Sam,
Thanks for the update; I will get in touch with MM.

In my idle time (12-12 S-S - LOL) I found the Hammer N4400 which also looks impressive for my needs...and SIGNIFICANTLY less costly than the Felder; Im now looking for more info on that saw as well..and the beat goes on
Russ

[Jamie Buxton]

...... it was carbide's preference for the larger wheel size - 18 instead of 16 - ....

I've been running carbide blades on my Laguna 16HD for about seven years. (That is, a 16" saw.) I use it a lot, and have been through a half-dozen blades. The first one work-hardened before the teeth wore out, and was replaced by the supplier at no charge. The remaining ones have all reached end-of-life without band failure. I'd say that the old stricture against carbide blades on a 16" is no longer true. My current favorite is the Lennox Woodmaster CT.

[Joe Mioux]

When I was looking at band saws, the decision came between a mm16 and the s45.

I chose the mm16, but I know that I would have been very happy with the S45 had I went that way. Actually, there are a couple advantages to it over the the 16.

larger table and better mobility being two of those advantages.

joe

[Jim Andrew]

I realize the bandsaws are heavy and a pain to move, but why not just have it shipped? Surely shipping would be cheaper than selling and replacing with a new one. If it were me I'd build a box around it and call the local shipping company.

[Russ Denz]

Thanks again guys for all the thoughtful information, but I still have some questions.
Jamie - my favorite blades are the Lenox Woodmaster CT's, too and I'm running them on my older MM16. So, I know they DO work, but playing safe, whenever a manufacturer recommends something I try to comply. They obviously know more about their product than I do and therefore must have a sound reason for their recommendations. I also realize that blade technology is not static either, and a company like Lenox is probably ahead of the pack on improving their blades (to be more flexible). If these were $40 blades I wouldn't think twice about messing one up...but they are not cheap, so I'm playing safe with the 18" wheel concern. Call it a quirk.

Joe,
Good input on the differences - thank you. Did you actually see both saws before you bought your MM16? I'm wondering if the weight of the S45N is consistent with the weight of the MM16. I don't give a rat's rearend about the weight except as a factor in the machines rigidity; I guess "mass" is a better word here. In other words, did the S45N offer the same structural strength, speaking of the spine mainly, as the MM16? One other question: it looks like there is a knob on the top of the S45N; is it actually a knob, like for tensioning on a 14" bs, or is something else... perhaps like a skyhook instead of the open hole on mine?

I'm probably expecting too much, that being a MM16 with different wheel & resaw specs, and for less money. The $600 price difference has to be made up somewhere, unless it's strictly a marketing thing due to the popularity of the MM16????

Jim - you are absolutely right, but in my case cost isn't the only factor. Without going into a lot of detail, doing it this way is just the best decision under our circumstances. Simply put, we already have too much stuff to move.

Thanks again; you guys have really been helpful...but I still don't have the perfect solution...IF there is such a thing.

[Jamie Buxton]

..Jamie - my favorite blades are the Lenox Woodmaster CT's, too and I'm running them on my older MM16. So, I know they DO work,.... Call it a quirk.
...

So you're unwilling to believe your own eyes? Yep, that's a quirk.

Or maybe you're trying to talk yourself into more powerful tools -- something we all cop to. :)

[Russ Denz]

Not only did you guys offer some good advice, but you brought up some good questions, which is just as important. So I did more digging today and called some vendors. The result is I think I've narrowed my choices down to two: the Minimax S45N and the Agazzani B-18. As soon as I receive the printed material from each, I'm almost certain I'll end up with one of these two.

Thanks again for all your help...and tolerating my "quirkiness"

Be well, and love aloha,
Russ

[Joe Mioux]

Joe,
Good input on the differences - thank you. Did you actually see both saws before you bought your MM16? I'm wondering if the weight of the S45N is consistent with the weight of the MM16. I don't give a rat's rearend about the weight except as a factor in the machines rigidity; I guess "mass" is a better word here. In other words, did the S45N offer the same structural strength, speaking of the spine mainly, as the MM16? One other question: it looks like there is a knob on the top of the S45N; is it actually a knob, like for tensioning on a 14" bs, or is something else... perhaps like a skyhook instead of the open hole on mine?

\\

no, I spoke with Dain, my sales rep. at the time extensively about the two.



I don't think you would have any worries that an s45 won't be stout enough to handle your band saw needs.

[Peter Kelly]

Hi Russ,

I have two MM S45's. I have one for regular sawing and another with a 3/4" blade for resawing. The saws are very good saws. There is one problem I have run into. I resaw 9" oak with no problem with a timberwolf blade. I wanted to switch to a carbide blade. However, MM tells me that the S45 will not tension carbide blades. The spring is not strong enough. I have not pursued the issue. They said it would not tension a 3/4" blade, but I did not ask about a 1/2" carbide blade. I am looking into getting a larger saw that will tension carbide blades.

If you don't want to use carbide blades, the saw is very good. If you have any questions please ask.

SamSam, did you end up replacing the spring on your S45? If so, would you happen to know the correct size? I was wanting to buy a replacement from Louis Iturra but I'm away from my shop for a while and haven't had a chance to check the dimensions. Unfortunately, Parts Pronto doesn't list any specs on it either.

[Erik Loza]

Peter, I would be interested in knowing that part number as well. We seem to take calls on older S45's all the time.

Thanks, Erik

[ian maybury]

So far as i know (?) the Agazzani B-18 and the Minimax S45N are not quite in the same class Russ. The S45 is a good saw, but it's perhaps a class below the Agazzani or for that matter the heavy duty models in most of the Italian ranges in that it's more of a general purpose/more profiling oriented lower powered and somewhat more lightly built model. It's possibly more comparable to the Hammer N4400, although i wouldn't want to be held to that as i don't have detail familiarity with either. The Hammer has a lot of motor, and is a well priced.

The B-18 is in effect a heavy duty Italian bandsaw (equivalent to their 'NRA' series in Europe, but with a slightly higher spec - there's also a slightly lighter duty 'Rapid' series), but it's not one of the US market resaw specials like Minimax 16in which tend to have a slightly heavier chassis and stronger spring than the stock heavy duty equivalent. e.g. Agazzani also (or at least did prior to the recent re-organisation) do a resaw special in the 18in - what they call an 18/18 model which has extra resaw capacity. There's also 20/20, 24/24 etc models. (i'm guessing the second number is the available height under the top guide)

16 - 18in saws seem to be on the limit to run carbide blades - in terms of having enough spring and chassis stiffness to tension them properly, and because they bend them tight enough over the smaller wheels to possibly cause premature fatigue failures in the ones using thicker band material. Some saws of that size and below may also have relatively higher crowned wheels to increase the centring effect/overcome moderate misalignments on narrow blades - one downside may be that the line of cut becomes much more affected by where the band locates on the tyre in normal running.

[Peter Kelly]

Peter, I would be interested in knowing that part number as well. We seem to take calls on older S45's all the time.

Thanks, ErikThe knob in the manual looks to be an M10 so I strongly suspect the English equivalent spring would be 1" OD x 1/2" ID x 3" L. If no one else does, I'll verify this when I get back in the shop.

Parts Pronto lists the replacement spring cost at, drumroll....$54(!) Think I'm in the wrong business.

[Erik Loza]

The knob in the manual looks to be an M10 so I strongly suspect the English equivalent spring would be 1" OD x 1/2" ID x 3" L. If no one else does, I'll verify this when I get back in the shop.

Parts Pronto lists the replacement spring cost at, drumroll....$54(!) Think I'm in the wrong business.

*painful groan on the pricing*

I just don't understand Italy's logic on pricing parts. Yes, some parts can handle a 400% or 500% markup and still be priced competitively but this spring is probably like $10 at Grainger once we figure out what exactly it is....

Erik

[Christopher Charles]

Howdy

I've a 2008 b-18 and have yet to find it lacking. The fit and finish are not quite the same as the mm16, but I have no regrets. Runs carbide well.

C

[Peter Kelly]

Peter, I would be interested in knowing that part number as well. We seem to take calls on older S45's all the time.

Thanks, ErikThe spring in a S45 can be replaced with a 3/4" OD 3/8" ID x 2-1/2" Heavy Duty Die Spring. $5.18 + shipping from Fastenal https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0345115

Just bought one and it fit perfectly.

Actually the exact same thing as a Carter "Cobra Coil" which is nothing more than a "yellow" heavy grade die-spring. Great product but nobody should pay $25 for these.

[Earl McLain]

Thanks for bringing this back up Peter--there is an S45 that showed up on local CL a few days ago, the guy is asking $900. I picked up a Laguna 14SE (made in Bulgaria in 2004) last fall--but the S45 would be a nice step up and i could probably trade up at not too much out of pocket once i sold the Laguna. I've not contacted the seller yet...maybe i'll have to do that after all!!
earl

[Chris Parks]

Thanks Peter, much appreciated, now I need to fabricate a decent tensioner handle/wheel for it.

[Erik Loza]

Peter: THANK YOU...

Erik