MACLAC thinner and sanding sealer

[Karl Card]

MACLAC thinner and sanding sealer, has anyone ever used this and if so where can you get it?

I looked at there website and i am only seeing CA, AZ,UT, NE for destributors but am wondering if it is sold anywhere else further inland..

From what I have read it is supposed to be some killer stuff.

Also looking for DURASEAL penetrating finish if anyone has info about this stuff please let me know.

[sam upton]

Karl,
I have spent some time trying to find these products also. They have no dealers east of AZ. that I can find. I finally found the sanding sealer in AZ. at a dealer that was willing to ship it to Houston, but I am waiting for a quote on the ground only shipping fees. Also, after talking to several people I have decided to use thinner of any brand that I can find local. I am sure that you can ave both products shipped from the manufacturer on the west coast. Sam

[Karl Card]

Karl,
I have spent some time trying to find these products also. They have no dealers east of AZ. that I can find. I finally found the sanding sealer in AZ. at a dealer that was willing to ship it to Houston, but I am waiting for a quote on the ground only shipping fees. Also, after talking to several people I have decided to use thinner of any brand that I can find local. I am sure that you can ave both products shipped from the manufacturer on the west coast. Sam

Thanks for the info. A guy I buy wood from over in Hawaii uses it and his stuff is very nice and museum quality. Check this out if you havent already. I have no affiliation with the website except that I buy wood from him on ebay.
http://www.koajoel.com/Site/Welcome.html

[Jerry Marcantel]

Man, I've been using that stuff for years, and always thought there might be something better, especially during our humid monsoon season. The finish turns white, so you need to use a retarder mixed into it to keep that from happening.
I get mine from Hood Distribution, which used to be McKewen Lumber, and from what I've heard, they are nationwide. Search Hood Dist., and then see if they have a location near you. They might be able to get you some from their western stores, and ship it with a load of lumber. I don't think it would have to go through all the hoops and stuff like it would by shipping through UPS and Fed-ex .... Hazardous shipping regs..... Try it...
Last time I bought some, abouit a year ago, it was right at 25 bucks a gallon for finish, and about a dollar less for the sealer. The thinner Hood sells for the MacLac is "Startex" general purpose lacquer thinner, about 13 dollars a gallon. I've also used Ace Hardware brand and "Kleen Strip" thinners also without any problems. Any lacquer thinner will work....
I only use lacquer because it dries so fast here, and when I had my shop, I could spray my cabinets, go back to making dust, all in a 10 minute time period, and when ready to apply the next coat, blow off the dust, and respray the product..... From sanding sealer to 2 coats of finish, I could do a whole kitchen in in less than 8 hours, and install the next day. Installation is where I had problems...... Jerry (in Tucson)

[David Woodruff]

Having tried many sealers, including sanding sealer. I now only use a vinyl sealer from Behlens. Sanding sealers contain stearates and are for people that try to short cut the sanding process; my opinion only. The vinyl sealer is clear, as in no stearates and provides an excellent anchoring base for most anything that comes after. Another word on sanding sealers is that the stearates tend to migrate and collect on the surface providing a not very good bonding interface. The stearate is the white slick powder one sees and feels when sanding or steel wooling prior to applying the finish coats. An interesting aside is that in my other life as Sr. Process Engineer for a coatings, laminations and packaging company, we applied stearic acid to an aluminum foil laminant. The test for continuity of the stearic acid coating was to apply a colored lacquer over the stearic acid, dry the lacquer and conduct an ink adhesion test by applying clear 3M scotch tape and stripping off the tape. A satisfactory coating was 100% failure of the applied coating. AKA poor bonding of the lacquer, a desired result in this case. My research tells me that sanding sealer contains a significant amount of stearic acid. In fact some years ago when I was experiencing small flaking of the completely finished vessel, I finally got a coatings chemist with Behlens to confirm that the stearic acid in sanding sealers was the problem. That is when I switched to vinyl and the problem disappeared. I now have a finish that is very predictable for all woods. Two liquid components are used; vinyl sealer and musical instrument lacquer. I was finally happy with my finishing after having used up all my **&%@?? !!*&%$%#****** words. I solicit oponions or just plain comments about your finishing experiences and solutions.

[Karl Card]

David,

I have to ask if diluting the sanding sealer 50/50 would still cause the same reaction? When I say 50/50 I think this guy is using 50 thinner (maclac brand only) with 50 sanding sealer.

Believe me I am not testing your intelligence I am so ignorant on alot of the chemicals and such that are used.

I am looking for tried and true solid clear as the clearest you can imagine.
Now there may come a time when I run into a customer who likes a matte finish or satin etc but for me the only finish I have on my mind at this moment in the game is a super clear, glossy like a waveless lake look.

Right now I stopped using ca and went back to deft lacquer and as long as I dont get impatient it is very clear and very shiny and has depth to it also. I just want it faster.... so I guess my next step is precat laqcer.

But I am alwasy lookng for tried and true methods to try so keep them coming. Even after I get the clearity cleaned up then I want to make sure about longevity. I have often wondered about the musical type of finishes also.

[David Woodruff]

Karl, One thing I did not mention about sanding sealers is the clouudiness imparted. I wanted nothing that interrupted the light path to a beautiful piece of burl. the vinyl sealer/musical instrument lacquer was selected for the inherent properties of clarity, adhesion to woods and adhesion to the finish lacquer. Also instrument lacquer is formulated with a degree of elasticity to resist cecking at temperature extremes and constant vibration of the musical variety. In the testing phase I used hard and oily woods, Ebony, African Black wood, Coco Bolo, maple, myrtle and soft redwood lace. In each case the harder the wood the worse the adhesion with sanding sealer with a fingernail. One can literally scrape off the lacquer from the sanding sealer after two monthe of curing. I am planning to evaluate one more lacquer but will stay with the vinyl sealer. It appears too that the bond developed with vinyl is more of a mutual solubility than mechanical.

[David Woodruff]

One more thought. When I want a "softer look" I will use a satin or even flat lacquer for the last 2 or 3 coats. This allows most of the applied finish to be of the "clear" type. Satin and flat finishes acheive just that with the application of Talc which serves to disperse the reflected light.

[Karl Card]

David,

Hope you dont mind teaching or sharing because I have a feeling I am going to try some stuff and let you know how it came out so I can find out why...

Thanks a bunch for the info thus far.

[Allen Neighbors]

Sanding sealers contain stearates and are for people that try to short cut the sanding process; my opinion only. Another word on sanding sealers is that the stearates tend to migrate and collect on the surface providing a not very good bonding interface. The stearate is the white slick powder one sees and feels when sanding or steel wooling prior to applying the finish coats. My research tells me that sanding sealer contains a significant amount of stearic acid. In fact some years ago when I was experiencing small flaking of the completely finished vessel, I finally got a coatings chemist with Behlens to confirm that the stearic acid in sanding sealers was the problem. I solicit opinions or just plain comments about your finishing experiences and solutions.

David, thanks for posting this information. I've never liked sanding sealer, and I just didn't know why... :)
My best finish on my lacquered pieces is done this way: I sand the final grits, beginning with 220, with Watco's Danish Oil, wiping after each grit with a fresh rag just dampened in DO (not enough to 'wash' the piece).
After I get through the final grit (usually 400 to 600), I buff on the lathe with brown paper sack, followed by a fresh clean T-Shirt rag.
Then I allow the piece to cure for one - two weeks (depending on humidity).
Then I spray with Pre-Catalyzed, Water White, Hi-Build, Gloss Lacquer, thinned about 10-15% w/ 3/4oz Retarder (to offset the thinner).
Between coats I hand buff with 0000 and Wool Wax, using enough water to make suds. (The Wool Wax is formulated to allow direct coating with Lacquer, without removing the remaining traces of wool wax)
Two or three smooth coats of Lacquer will usually put a very high gloss on it. Seldom do I need to buff the piece when it's cured. But most of the time I do, just to get a little wax on it.

[David Woodruff]

Thanks, I would love to hear from you. The only time I will say "told you so" is about sanding sealer. I wrote an article 10-12 or so years ago that was a basis for finishing seminars I gave at AAW chapters. I'll try to dust it off and update and send you a copy. Is your address in your the Profile?

[Bernie Weishapl]

David I would like a copy. I will PM you with my address. Great info here.