Building a new shop - would appreciate your opinions

[Michael O'Brien]

Hi Everyone,

So I got a gig with about $10,000 take-home. My wife, wonderful person that she is, is oaky with me using it to upgrade my shop.

I just sold most of my old equipment and wanted to get your thoughts/opinions on what I am planning to buy just in case I could be doing something better.

I am going to use half of my 20x24 garage, with the ability to expand during big projects (I will park outside at these times).

So here is my list:
1) SawStop Professional Cabinet Saw with 52” table
2) Oneida Dust Gorilla 2HP (ducting and blast gates from http://www.blastgateco.com/).
3) Grizzly G0514X 19” 3HP bandsaw
4) Grizzly G0490 8” Jointer with Parallelogram Beds
5) Some kind of router table. One option is the Grizzly T10222 (http://tinyurl.com/32ky6ao), another is the Bench Dog 40-102 ProMax cast iron router table extension (http://tinyurl.com/34gku6j) but this gets complicated with table saws with left-tilting blades, and the last option (which has a space issue) is the Bench Dog 40-300 ProMax RT Complete (http://tinyurl.com/2u9fyfq). The thing I like about the Bench Dogs is that I really like the Woodpeckers Router lift and they make one that fits Bench Dogs.
6) Sanding: Ridgid oscillating edge belt/spindle sander and Jet 708433 12-inch disc sander.
7) Lots of smaller accessories (Incra 1000SE miter gauge, mobile bases, Magswitch feather board, Jet parallel clamps, etc.

I am also spending a fair amount adding a sub-panel to my garage, installing a bunch of new receptacles, adding A/C and heating units, etc.

Any items you would get discourage or encourage? Are there any things I should also consider? (Space is an issue so things like the Jet 16-32 drum sander is not realistic at this time.) I would very much appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks!
Mcihael

[Jim Mahan]

You should look into one of those softwares that help in designing your shop. Larry post: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20180 might help out.

[Lee Ludden]

You might want to consider getting one of the jointers with spiral heads.

For about $100 more than the jet disc sander, you can get the Grizzly G1276 which adds a belt sander to the 12" disc (I was planning on getting one of these before I came across this Jet model on CL).

As to the router table, I purchased the Jess-Em table and lift last Christmas, but after using it for 6 months, I wish I had made some other decisions. I love the Mast-R-Lift, and the fence is fine, but the table just doesn't seem right. I would recommend getting the lift you want, and building your own table for it and trying it out for a while and see what you like and don't like about it.

All the rest of your stuff sounds pretty much in line with what I have or would get if starting from scratch.

[Steve Costa]

Option 1: I would wait until the sawstop came and you verified with vendors that their tables will fit your saw. The options you listed were pricey.

Option 2: Buy a router table from a vendor, Woodhaven seems to have good stuff, and build your own base. With the savings you can buy a router lift or many other accessories.

[Eiji Fuller]

If you added a festool TS55/75 and track you can get by very well with a tablesaw with a 30" fence. That saves a ton of room in a small shop. also saves alot of time jointing rough stock edges.

I would also consider getting the Griz 12" combo jointer planer. the bigger the jointer the better and doesnt take any more room than the 8" you are looking at.

[Robert Chapman]

+1 on the spiral head for the jointer, same advice if you are going to get a planer. I notice that your concerns are with tool purchases but not with shop layout. If possible I would suggest that you dedicate some shop space to a segregated space that you can use for finishing items. Such a space will allow you to continue to work [make dust] while finished items are drying. Wish I had done this when I built my shop.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Did you consider routing a hole in your SS table extension and dropping a router plate in? I did that, it was hard to do that first plunge into the SS table, but I got over it. Use the stock SS fence with a sacrificial fence. That will save you some room in your shop, and utilize some of the extra room on your table saw.

[Cliff Holmes]

I'd go with a Grizzly 3hp cyclone in lieu of the Oneida. Less money, better performance, and doesn't look like a creamsicle

[Andrew Nemeth]

Hi Everyone,

So I got a gig with about $10,000 take-home. My wife, wonderful person that she is, is oaky with me using it to upgrade my shop.

I just sold most of my old equipment and wanted to get your thoughts/opinions on what I am planning to buy just in case I could be doing something better.

I am going to use half of my 20x24 garage, with the ability to expand during big projects (I will park outside at these times).

So here is my list:
1) SawStop Professional Cabinet Saw with 52” table
2) Oneida Dust Gorilla 2HP (ducting and blast gates from http://www.blastgateco.com/).
3) Grizzly G0514X 19” 3HP bandsaw
4) Grizzly G0490 8” Jointer with Parallelogram Beds
5) Some kind of router table. One option is the Grizzly T10222 (http://tinyurl.com/32ky6ao), another is the Bench Dog 40-102 ProMax cast iron router table extension (http://tinyurl.com/34gku6j) but this gets complicated with table saws with left-tilting blades, and the last option (which has a space issue) is the Bench Dog 40-300 ProMax RT Complete (http://tinyurl.com/2u9fyfq). The thing I like about the Bench Dogs is that I really like the Woodpeckers Router lift and they make one that fits Bench Dogs.
6) Sanding: Ridgid oscillating edge belt/spindle sander and Jet 708433 12-inch disc sander.
7) Lots of smaller accessories (Incra 1000SE miter gauge, mobile bases, Magswitch feather board, Jet parallel clamps, etc.

I am also spending a fair amount adding a sub-panel to my garage, installing a bunch of new receptacles, adding A/C and heating units, etc.

Any items you would get discourage or encourage? Are there any things I should also consider? (Space is an issue so things like the Jet 16-32 drum sander is not realistic at this time.) I would very much appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks!
Mcihael

Michael,

What major equipment do you still have? What types of woodworking do you envision being able to do with your new shop? It's hard to comment on your list without knowing the whole picture.

-Andrew

[Kirk Poore]

If you added a festool TS55/75 and track you can get by very well with a tablesaw with a 30" fence. That saves a ton of room in a small shop. also saves alot of time jointing rough stock edges.

I would also consider getting the Griz 12" combo jointer planer. the bigger the jointer the better and doesnt take any more room than the 8" you are looking at.

I agree with approach of a smaller TS and using a circular saw to break down sheet goods (though I don't think Festool is worth the money unless you're going to use it a whole lot).

You didn't say what kind of planer you've got (I assume you have one, since you didn't say you're getting one). Since you must be satisfied with it, I would forego the combo machine, but look for a good used 8" jointer (say a DJ-20) instead of something new. Jointers are a good spot to save some money with used machines since there is very little to go wrong.

Finally, I think you should consider a small shaper (say, 2 or 3 hp) instead of the router table. Keep your router as a hand-held machine, but use the shaper for the large stuff.

Put in several (4 or more) 240V outlets. Standardize your plugs on all 240V machines.

Kirk

[Michael O'Brien]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your comments. Jim - attached are two images of my shop layout. One has just the layout, and one has the ducting design. To use the table saw, I will need to move the car and then wheel the TS out a few feet which is not a big deal.

There seems to be a lot of attention put on the router table -- which is soemthing that I am still unsure about. Kyle -- using the SS extension table is definately an option. if you use your SS fense, what do yo udo for above-table dust collection?

Re the spriel cutterhead, it is my understanding that this gives you longer life but a straight blade gives, on average, a smoother cut. Is there something else I am missing?

Kirk and Andrew - I have a Delta 580 planer which does a great job, so I am covered on that front. I have a Hitachi sliding mider saw, Bosch router and jig saw, PC biscuit jointer, 4" belt sander, and palm sander, and a Craftsman circular saw.

As for the size of the table saw -- I want this to be the last one I ever buy and I don't want to regreat 10 years from now not getting the bigger one, so this is soething I feel comfortable taking up space.

Hmm.... I think I adressed your questions. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with all of this.

Michael

[Guy Belleman]

Not sure how your shop is layed out, but consider the electrical and ducting plan before going much further. Since you are installing the outlets, I found I prefer the outlets up higher, just above the workbench height.

The proposed list, as mentioned by others, contains a couple of pricey items that may not really suit the need. With a couple of adjustments you can make one great shop with all of range of tools you will need. Since you like Grizzly, you would be well served by the G0691, or G1023RLX, or even the T23042, and still have a large chunk of financing to fund another purchase. Do you really need the long 52" rails. I find that I seldom need the length and would be well served with the 40" that G0690 provides. That can save a lot of room in the shop.

The Oneida system is good, so are several others. I prefer the Penn State industries, which again some of your financing could be saved and still have a larger and efficient system.

The G0514X 19" should be great. Three years ago I moved up to the G0513X and love the saw. It has a few features that even more expensive saws don't have, which I would not want to go without again.

Recommend upgrading the G0490 jointer to the G0490X with the spiral cutter head. This is a fine machine. Mine is a pleasure to use, and everytime, I wonder I didn't get one thirty years ago, instead of an inexpensive 6". Probably because I didn't have the money then.

I have a shaper and a router table. I use both. Actually I find having a router table annoying, and would rather have it located in the tables of the table saw. Grizzly makes a wing that fits the first two saws I listed above. With a router that has adjustability, like the Milwaukee, you would be set.

Going to need a planer. Sanding depends on what you intend to make. I find the Grizzly 12" orbital and belt combination machine, coupled with circular disks for the drill press work great. I also have a couple of hand sanders. I find that I seldom need a belt sander. But you might very need more sanding capability.

A drill press, don't see one listed.

Good luck. If you have any financing left over, let me know and I will be happy to take care of that for you. :D

[Tom Hamilton]

Hey Michael: Here's a couple of convenience items to add to your thought process:

1. Install a wooden shop floor. Here's a link to one of the many posts on this subject: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=108621. Incidentially, you can floor the whole garage and still park your vehicle inside.

2. I see you've got a sink in the plan, excellent idea and a "tool" you will use daily. You might check with restaurant supply businesses for a used restaurant sink. Mine is stainless, 60X30 inches, the sink is 18" square so I've got a large surface to collect shop flotsam and jetsam. Mine was a repo from a failed restaurant and cost $150.

Enjoy the planning and execution, Tom

[Prashun Patel]

I'd save some $$ by getting a 'regular' 8" jointer and the SSPCS 36". I'd get a good router top, but wouldn't blow a lot on the cabinet or lift; these can be upgraded later. Instead I'd get these:

a Domino - There's just no equivalent for fast, accurate, strong joinery
a DW735 planer - if you don't have one yet.
a floor standing drill press

[Brian W Evans]

Just to throw a fly in the ointment - how about a euro combination machine? Both Hammer and Minimax have options under $10K and include jointer, planer, shaper, and sliding table saw. The shaper might do much of what you need a router table for, or you could get a high-speed spindle and use the shaper as a really big router. It wouldn't sand anything, but it would eliminate the need for an expensive miter gauge, and maybe one or two other items. It would certainly simplify dust collection and might save some room.

I don't have one of these (yet), but I think I'm headed that way when I redo my shop. The more I read about these on the 'Creek and research them elsewhere, the more sense they make to me.

If you're not interested in the combination machines, I'd second what some others have said: SawStop, spiral cutterheads, and build your own router table.

[Mike Cruz]

Since you are getting a lot of good advice, and I don't have the 1/2 hour to give you my "this is what I would do", when I don't know what you really need, and what would be nice to have, I'll just make this comment:

I LOVE your typo in your second sentence. I thought it was so appropriate to call your wife oaky (instead of okay) :D. Not that I know your wife, or think in any way that she is oaky, but if you are going to have a typo on a woodworking forum, that is about as good as it gets.

[Myk Rian]

I would fill it with Old arn.

[Carl Beckett]

and just a consideration mind you.

But perhaps top of the list should be a really nice piece of jewelry or other item your wife may enjoy.

You should still have a nice $9k leftover, and my bet is that the $1k investment will reap big returns down the road.

[Stephen Cherry]

Michael,

What types of woodworking do you envision being able to do with your new shop?

-Andrew

I think this is the key question.

[Ray DuBose]

You Park a car in your Garage? Who does that?

[Myk Rian]

You Park a car in your Garage? Who does that?
My Wife insists on parking her new Taurus in MY SHOP :(
I keep a California duster handy.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Unless you are in the south and will always work with the garage door open, you might consider putting the table saw in the middle of the shop so you can rip stuff up to 11' or so with the door closed.

For Dust Collection, you might consider Clear Vue - they are back in business under new ownership. That is a unit you likely will not out grow anytime soon.

[Harry Robinette]

Michael
I have a left tilt general saw and I put the bench dog table top router table on the left side and it's working really nice. Also if you have more then 4 ft.of dust collection duct in a run put a y with a cap in the duct.
All of mine now are hooked up.It's funny what we come up with after the system is installed :D

[Eiji Fuller]

Maybe she'll change her mind when she sees the saw dust all over the car.

[Jim Andrew]

I'll second the 3 hp cyclone. My 2 hp is just barely enough to keep up with my 18" woodmaster. If the filter needs cleaned, it leaves chips on the planer. Clean filter, gets it all. 3 hp would get it all even if it needed cleaned.

[Will Blick]

3hp min. on cyclone, 5hp preferred... more is better....

I love the Festool 75 saw suggestion..... it enables you to reduce the footprint of the TS, a huge floor hog... you don't have much space to start with... My Festool 75 is all I use for sheet goods... but if sheet goods is your norm, then a TS is not ideal to begin with, a slider is more ideal... again, as others have mentioned, you need to "back" into these decisions based on your work.

I 2nd the router attached to TS, huge space saver, and when not being used, its a massive work top you can use for glue ups, clamping, etc. Just be sure to cover the top :-) Of course this does not solve the sheet goods on TS issue, as its the length which is the bigger concern, not the width.

12" jointer prices are down, 8" is often a bit too short, and that is the first machine you hit...again, unless you use very small boards.... A combo jointer / planer like Grizz sells is a huge space saver, and if you can get one with the Shelix heads, you saved lots of space and got the best of both worlds, since the Shelix head can take a lot of abuse, I mean "use"....

Its amazing how fast you can spend 10k, huh...

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I starting really setting my basement shop up last November/December and it is still coming along. Just got plans for building a router table in the mail today! And just like checking out the awesome completed projects here on SMC, I confess I never tire of these new shop scenarios and tool lists!

My own shop and budget were very similar to yours (SSPCS 52", DW735, G0490, DC, DP, etc.)...and for what its worth I went with the PCS 52". It does take up more space but it was only $100 more for the additional capacity...I knew if I had gone with the smaller I'd be kicking myself the next week.

I agree on getting a drill press. Depending on your work a square chisel mortiser can be a huge help.

My "big" advice: Keep some powder dry!

There's blades and tooling...dado set, rip blade, combination blade, some router bits, forstner bits, pilot bits, abrasives, bushing set, edge guide, straight edge and rules.

Got clamps?

Also, since I haven't seen it mentioned, plan to add a quality bench (if you don't have one). By the time you take care of wood, any unique bits or tooling, vices and dogs...this may set you back over $1000.

Leave some money for hand tools too! They are an expense that adds up in New York minute. A few planes (LN 102 block, LV Med. shoulder, and LN iron smooth in my case...over $500), a set of bench chisels, starrett combo square, 4" double square, marking gauge, bevel gauge, dovetail saw, rasp, marking knife, card/cabinet scrapers and burnisher.

Sharpening stones? Grinder? Strop? You don't to be a neander to have a basic hand tool package...and man some simple stuff becomes as central to your work as a good table saw.