Woodworking bench width over 24" ?

[Boris Sudel]

Hi everybody,

I am considering making my new woodworking bench (Roubo) deeper than the standard 24".

I wonder if you would think it is a good/bad idea, why, and how deep should it be - 30" ?

Thanks,
Boris

[Lee Ludden]

From this (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Rules_for_Workbenches/) article by Chris Schwartz. His book on workbenches is a good read.


The width is a different matter. You can have a bench that is too wide for a one-person shop. I’ve worked on benches that are 36" wide and they have downsides. For starters, if you park them against the wall you’ll have to stretch to reach the tools hanging on the wall. If you assemble projects on your bench, you will find yourself dancing around it a lot more than you should.

But there’s more. Cabinetwork is sized in standard chunks. These sizes come from the human body; they aren’t arbitrary. A kitchen’s base cabinet is generally 24" deep and 34-1⁄2" high. This is important for a couple reasons. First: It means you don’t really need a bench that’s much more than 24" deep to build cabinets. With that 24" depth, you actually get some advantages, including the fact that you can clamp the cabinet to your bench from as many as three sides of your bench. That’s dang handy. A deep bench allows you to clamp your cabinets to the bench on only two sides (with a couple exceptions). Here’s the other thing to keep in mind: Kitchen cabinets are themselves a highly studied work surface. There’s a good reason that kitchen cabinets are 24" deep. And it’s the same reason you don’t want your workbench much deeper either.

Now I’m not going to argue with you if you build really big stuff or have a bench that you share with another woodworker facing you; you might need more depth. But if you are like the rest of us, a 24"-deep bench is a powerful and right-sized tool.

[Eiji Fuller]

A couple of inches more might be handy but I tend to agree with Mr. Schwartz

[Frank Drew]

I'm having trouble reconciling the image of a Roubo bench in a shop that specializes in kitchen cabinets; those shops that I've been in rarely have Roubo or any other style traditional woodworking benches since there's (ideally) very little handwork involved. Assembly tables, sure; European-inspired handmade bench, not so much.

It's certainly true, of course, that at a certain point a bench top can be wider than is useful, but it's equally true that too narrow a work surface is restricting, and that's why I didn't incorporate a tool trough when I made my bench -- I didn't want to lose the working real estate.

[alex grams]

I upgraded my bench from this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=153486&d=1276663309

to this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=153487&d=1276663309

and couldn't be happier. The top is maybe 34-36" wide. I do most all of my work from one side and an end. The tray is great, but i imagine if i had a bench that size with no tray the top could be a little big. Of course, I am 6'4" and have a long reach, so what may seem a wide bench to you may be no problem for me.

If also depends on how much room around your bench you will have. If you have good mobility around the bench then a wider bench may be no problem, but like it was said by Schwartz, if you have to work from one side and stretch to reach the back, it could be a pain.

[Mac Houtz]

While I agree with Chris's logic on this, I still run against the grain when it comes to my workbench. Mine is against a wall, and it is 48 inches wide. I have a tiny shop, so the rear 10-15 inches makes for great storage. There is room for a chopsaw, a miter box, a sharpening station and also plenty of room for handwork in the front center(bench is also 96 inches long). Yes, it is difficult to reach things hanging on the wall, but that just means I limit that space to seldom used hanging tools. My bench is also much higher than traditional benches, but for handwork like chopping dovetails I find the height to be much easier on my neck and back because I am not stooped over. One area where my bench is extremely deficient is handplaning. I have found that the extra height makes for sore elbows and not enough downward pressure when pushing large planes for extended periods of time.

[Don Alexander]

Mine is against a wall, and it is 48 inches wide


how the heck do you reach the wall at all or the back 12 inches of the bench for that matter?
enquiring minds wanna know :D

[Guy Belleman]

I like having a bench closer to the wall, and yet still movable. The middle of the room stays more open. Most other tools, like sharpeners and mortising machine are on rolling cabinets that I move around as needed. After having this narrowed bench, I would not go back to a wider one.

[Alan Schaffter]

Woodworking bench styles, size, height are personal things. That is why people are still buying books entirely devoted to the topic, written by Chris Schwarz (he has a new one coming out), Lon Schleining, and others. Chris S. has some good points, but why is he on his umteenth bench- hasn't found the right combination? Will his Roubo be his last?

So, though little you do may be wrong, it may not always be "right", so be prepared to build more benches over your woodworking career.

My top is a wide 33" since the slab I started with was 30" then I added 1-1/2" thick aprons. I like having extra real estate to set tools on. I don't like recessed tool trays- I find they are just too much of dust catchers.

I was uncertain about what wound be the most comfortable height and worried the chosen height would be a compromise - wouldn't I really need the bench to be at different heights for different operations? So, I designed and built an adjustable height bench. It is not for everyone, but I like it and it is more stable than I had ever hoped.

Here is a link to a video tour (http://videos.americanwoodworker.com/video/Adjustable-Height-Woodworking-B) of it.

Mid height.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_2932.jpg


Fully down:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_2931.jpg

Full up:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1463/medium/IMG_2934.jpg

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't normally make cabinets wider than 30" so my bench is 31" wide.

It is free standing so I have access on all 4 sides.

Regards, Rod.

[glenn bradley]

Mine is 30" deep but, I use it for assembly and so forth along with material prep. If it was a "work" bench only I think 24" would be more than enough.

[Damon Stathatos]

It kills me that standard cabinets are only 34 1/2" high. From the Chris Schwartz quote above:

...These sizes come from the human body; they aren’t arbitrary. A kitchen’s base cabinet is generally 24" deep and 34-1⁄2" high...

Who's human body are they referring to? Some people are around 5' and some over 6' tall. It seems to me that when these 'standards' were created, people were generally much shorter than today as well.

Long story short, I don't accept his premise and don't agree that 'standard' should be standard anymore.

[Bruce Page]

I’m not a traditionalist, I build what works for me. I wanted a bench with a large surface and ample storage and this is what I came up with. The top is 36”x96”x42” high. I love having all of that space to work with. I’m 6’3” and have no trouble reaching the back wall.

[Rod Sheridan]

I think that's the best approach Bruce, build what fits your body and work size.

I'm short so I have a bench that's 34" high, it's just the right height for me to hand plane stuff on.

Regards, Rod.

[Ryan Baker]

Obviously, the individual answer, which is different for everybody, depends a lot on your own body dimensions and the type of work you do most. For a bench along the wall, I'd stay in the 24 isn't bad, or it gets hard to reach past. 30" is about the limit along a wall. If you can have the bench out in the middle where you can work around it, I say the bigger the better. I just stepped up to 30" in my shop and I love it. I would go wider if I had enough room around it -- 36" anyway. I wouldn't discount going as far as 48" (Shaker style), which is great for assembly. Any more than that and it gets too far to reach from each side. I also don't like tool trays. I had that on my old bench and ditched it. I found the tray to only take away valuable work space, collect huge amounts of dust, and hold tools you never use because they are always buried in the tray under everything else.

[Joe A Faulkner]

From "The WORKBENCH", subtitle, "A Complete Guide to Creating Your Perfect Bench" by Lon Schleining, Tauton Press.

"Woodworkers often lament that their carefully crafted, very expensive bench is either too narrow or not long enough. Rarely do you hear complaints about a benchtop being too big." page 27

Our local library carries this book. It is a fun read.

[Steve Griffin]

My primary bench is away from the wall and 48 x 96. Because this can sometimes feel small once I set a few tools on it, I like to have a 24 x 96 cabinet nearby next to a wall to set stuff on.

I have a 48 x 96 workbench against a wall too. This is perfect for laying out parts of a project as they are made, or glue ups.

I'd have to quite woodworking if I had a normal sized bench since I'd find it so frustrating.

So, I suggest erring on the big side.

-Steve

[Don Alexander]

I think that's the best approach Bruce, build what fits your body and work size.


ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON THE MONEY :)

whether it be shop cabinets , workbenches , tool stands or anything else

[Paul Johnstone]

how the heck do you reach the wall at all or the back 12 inches of the bench for that matter?
enquiring minds wanna know :D

Mine is 48" wide too.
I climb on top of it sometimes (like when doing finishing).
Mine also serves as an outfeed table to the tablesaw.

[Dave Shute]

I'm new here and am in the process of building my new bench. It's refreshing to know there are others out there who are not out to build what others think will work for you, but what you think will work for you. My bench also will have complete dust free storage below a 3" thick maple top.http://sawmillcreek.org/C:\Users\Dave\Pictures\Img0056\DSCN2172.JPG

[Jason White]

Paul, any chance you can post a picture of your bench?

Jason


Mine is 48" wide too.
I climb on top of it sometimes (like when doing finishing).
Mine also serves as an outfeed table to the tablesaw.

[ian maybury]

I'm also just started building a bench (in this case a Roubo), the timber is in my shop acclimatising. It'll be my first 'proper' woodworking bench - so far I've been on a more general purpose (albeit heavy) DIY type bench bolted to a wall on brackets and legs.

It seems to me that bench designs are a bit like opinions - in that they entail taking a single rigid position on what it potentially a very wide range of issues/requirements.

So by definition they can only be a best compromise - there's always going to be jobs that a given design doesn't handle very well. So as ever it's not about dogma/one size fits all/you gotta have xyz to be cool - it's about being clear about requirements, and proceeding accordingly.

One of the big advantages of a narrower bench with flush legs a la Roubo seems to be ease of clamping, and ease of access from all sides - for working wood on the bench with hand or power tools, and for assembling cabinet/furniture sized items.

The very heavy construction and absolute solidity typical of the design is probably another - in that it gives a weight and stability that can't easily be had otherwise.

There's a Roubo design about that's a bit wider, but has a removable centre strip to ease clamping etc. But to me it begs some questions regarding loss of rigidity in the top - in that it requires cross members between the legs under it for support, and as such becomes not a lot different to many designs. But that's personal - because after years of a slightly springy work surface I'm not going there again.

Beyond that I suspect it's as ever about being clear about what's best for what you are trying to do, and proceeding accordingly based on the data. (it's easy to 'improve' designs so they become a lot worse than the tried and tested ones though I think)

To be fair to Chris Schwarz I think that of all the mag writers he's the one that's the most analytical and factually based in what he does. His book for example is very clear on the strengths and (hence weaknesses) of the Roubo. He's obviously not infallible, and his views must be coloured by his own perceptions - but I very much respect the way that he's doing the work to try and test the various traditional formats to gain a practical understanding of their pros and cons. :) Most write from the hip....

ian

[Dan Karachio]

CS is not God. Heck, we don't even have to call him Mr. If I have learned anything from his books and articles it is to try new things and find what works best for you. Don't build your bench of a lifetime until you have bult at least one to try out and figure out what works for you. Like a few people here, I want to do assembly on my bench too. For the things I build (not always kitchen cabinets), 24" is not often enough width. 30" sounds good to me and for what it is worth, I want a tool tray and Alex's bench is looking very good to me.

[Jay Allen]

It kills me that standard cabinets are only 34 1/2" high. From the Chris Schwartz quote above:

...These sizes come from the human body; they aren’t arbitrary. A kitchen’s base cabinet is generally 24" deep and 34-1⁄2" high...

Who's human body are they referring to? Some people are around 5' and some over 6' tall. It seems to me that when these 'standards' were created, people were generally much shorter than today as well.

Long story short, I don't accept his premise and don't agree that 'standard' should be standard anymore.

I've go to believe that at least part of it is based on material yeild. If your sides are based upon 24", you get four per sheet....and if you use seperate toe kicks, you get six sides per sheet.

The thing I don't get is that bathroom vanities are usually shorter than kitchen cabinets? Am I shorter in the bathroom? Please don't tell me that this is so children can brush their teeth? When they are that young they can't reach the 30" height either? So the entire thing is designed around someone who will grow out if it? I'm not buying that.

[Kevin Gregoire]

Alan, your bench is incredible!!
i wish i could afford to build it but also have the room to use it.
the height adjuster is awesome, is that something you made or a kit you bought?

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan, your bench is incredible!!
i wish i could afford to build it but also have the room to use it.
the height adjuster is awesome, is that something you made or a kit you bought?

Thanks, I like it.

I based the adjustable trestle base on the adjustable legs I designed and built for my assembly table which was the subject of a two-part article in the Dec/Jan 2010 issue of American Woodworker. I shot this video (http://videos.americanwoodworker.com/video/AWW-Adjustable-Height-Assembl-2) about it also.

[Mike Langford]

My workbench/assembly table/tool holder/clutter magnet is 49"x96"
with vises mounted on both ends of one side....

157283 157284

157285 157286

Top is 3/4" MDF over a 2"x4" framework with 3/16" hardboard on top of the MDF

I love the size but sometimes it gets so cluttered & crowded I wind up working in only a 12"x12" space! :D

[Steve Griffin]

I'm new here and am in the process of building my new bench. It's refreshing to know there are others out there who are not out to build what others think will work for you, but what you think will work for you. My bench also will have complete dust free storage below a 3" thick maple top.http://sawmillcreek.org/C:\Users\Dave\Pictures\Img0056\DSCN2172.JPG

While I see what you are saying, I don't agree.

When I start a thread here, I want to hear what others think. Why post asking about workbench width if everyone will politely say "whatever works for you"?

I posted here because I felt very strongly if you have the room, (which I assume the thread starter must have if he is asking the question) that a 24" wide bench is not even a little too small, it's absurdly small.

Others may differ, especially if they are making making tiny pens or carving little figurines.

-Steve

[Matt Radtke]

I posted here because I felt very strongly if you have the room, (which I assume the thread starter must have if he is asking the question) that a 24" wide bench is not even a little too small, it's absurdly small.

I don't see 24" as absurdly small. My bench is Roubo-ish and about 28" deep. 20" of laminated Slab, 5" of tool tray, and about 3" of "back of the tool tray." My fingertips can reach the wall and not much further. Once I build some wall mounted storage behind the bench, I won't have an inch to spare--I wouldn't be able to reach said storage. So there you go. I'm remarkably average at 5'11" and my practical reach is ~30"

Design of the bench and shop layout matter almost as much as intended purpose (IMHO) for a bench. For example, if you use holdfasts, space below the top is at a premium and you likely won't have room for under-bench storage. Wall mounted gets more appealing, and a narrower bench results.

[Jon van der Linden]

CS is not God. Heck, we don't even have to call him Mr. If I have learned anything from his books and articles it is to try new things and find what works best for you. Don't build your bench of a lifetime until you have bult at least one to try out and figure out what works for you. Like a few people here, I want to do assembly on my bench too. For the things I build (not always kitchen cabinets), 24" is not often enough width. 30" sounds good to me and for what it is worth, I want a tool tray and Alex's bench is looking very good to me.

The real issue here is workbench vs assembly table. First of all, a workbench is most often the wrong height for an assembly table. The height of the workbench is based on actually working on it, not several feet above it, which is what happens when you assemble. If you absolutely have to do both, then using a scissor lift as the base is a good option.

When actually using a bench to make things a narrower bench is often very useful. The purpose of the bench is workholding, which can often mean accessing both sides of the bench and clamping from both sides. There are plenty of really good professionals who don't want benches as wide as 24".

I'm not sure why 24" wouldn't be wide enough for assembly. Usually only one long dimension is needed. With truly larger items like large gates, I wouldn't do them on a table anyway. After all, how would I get to the part at the center which is farther than I can reach from either side?

It just sounds to me like there's a lot of talk here about "needing" something without any justification for it. Simple work like kitchen cabinets and other items made of sheet goods really don't need a workbench at all. If you're doing furniture, over 24" is really too wide. It's not about how far you can reach. The bench is a tool that should be designed to a measure that's appropriate for what you make.

Bigger is not always better.

[Boris Sudel]

Thank you Jon,

I have to say that your thinking makes perfect sense to me. After much reading and thinking about the options I have arrived to the same answer as you provided and am planning to make my WOODWORKING (rather then assembly) bench 24" deep.

Boris

[Steve Griffin]

Thank you Jon,

I have to say that your thinking makes perfect sense to me. After much reading and thinking about the options I have arrived to the same answer as you provided and am planning to make my WOODWORKING (rather then assembly) bench 24" deep.

Boris


Sounds good. Let us know how it works out for you and post some pics!.

Steve,

Who still can't imagine building a tiny jewellery box on such a table, even if assembly (which is apparently non-woodworking), is preformed elsewhere...

[ian maybury]

Must say that while i'm only getting into the subject of benches that in keeping with the horses for courses point i buy Jon's point about woodworking and assembly being different requirements. Different that is in terms of some of the demands they may make of a bench.

Another distinction is the difference between using hand tools, and power tools - in that hand tools (sawing, chiseling and planing) put much greater forces into the bench, and are easily disrupted by any sort of flexing or moving - there's not much point for example in trying to chisel accurately down on to an unsupported 3/4 in MDF top.

There are inevitably going to be overlaps in function: e.g. an assembly table needs a flat top and easy clamping too, so there's nothing that says that you can't use a workbench for assembly. But it doesn't need to be 4in thick for that. Nor does it need to be that strong to support e.g. routing and other machining tasks.

Schwarz talks of some of these differences in his book. The Roubo (being a very old design) it's fairly clear is a workbench optimised for hand tool use. It happens that you can do lots of other stuff on it as well, but it wasn't designed for that. ;-) You can eat your lunch off it too, but that doesn't make it a dining table....

[Frank Drew]

... a 24" wide bench is not even a little too small, it's absurdly small.

Others may differ, especially if they are making making tiny pens or carving little figurines.



I guess everybody works differently, and every shop puts out different kinds, and amounts, of work. But in my shop and in the shop where I apprenticed, I used a traditional work bench for actual joinery work (sawing, planing, cutting or refining joints by hand) and a lower, bigger assembly table (or even the floor) to actually put together the furniture I made. For the most part my workbench was big enough for what I was making -- full-size furniture, not tiny pens or little figurines.

[Dan Karachio]

Sam Maloof's bench is 36" wide and he seemed to do pretty well with it. I have a 24" x 72" bench at 34.5" high and it has served well for wood working and assembly in every way except for width. I don't have space for a second assembly table and I think a bench can do both and does do both for many people from Sam M. on down (and down, down, down) to lowly me. When I am wood working everything pretty much clamps to the front part of the top via the front vise, the tail vise, dogs, hooks, hold downs... Width here is never an issue (it can't be too wide since I rarely need to reach across it for woodworking). When I am assembling items larger than 24" wide (very often - last three projects) height is never an issue for me, the flat top is essential, but only width has been a problem. So, since I am not referring to books (read and have them all), opinion, mantra, bench guru's or theory, but to actual experience in my own shop with my own 24" bench (for both wood working and assembly), I fail to see how I am misguided in understanding or justifying what I need?

[Rick Fisher]

I plan on building a bench this fall..

My last draft shows 32" deep.. I am 6'2..

I really like the idea of the benches with banks of drawers underneath.. I always considered the Euro style benches to have a lot of wasted space underneath..

I plan on building in a rack to hold my Bessey Tradesmen clamps.. Love the idea of them being right there, at my finger tips..

I really think a bench is a personal thing.. I only need one vice, but would love to have a dozen shallow drawers for bit tips, chisels, screws etc..

My current medite bench has a 115V power plug in a steel box under the bench top.. What a winner that idea is .. I can plug in anything, at the bench..

[Dan Karachio]

Rick, if assembly is not considered as worthy as "pure woodworking" (do woodworkers not put things together?) then where would storage rank? Tisk tisk, you see your bench as a way of making your work easier and more versatile. How misguided. Don't you realize the bench is not a tool, but the Most Holy Alter of the shop? It's sole purpose is to sacrifice hardwood in the creation of finer and finer gossamer shavings that are offered to the Gods. Those who stray from the teachings of the Prophet Schwartz are placing their souls in jeopardy. :D

[Frank Drew]

I really like the idea of the benches with banks of drawers underneath.. I always considered the Euro style benches to have a lot of wasted space underneath..



I don't know, I made a European-style bench and put a drawer case below, sitting on the stretchers that connects the leg frames. I guess you could say it's not integral to the bench design, but there's no reason the space needs to go unused.

[glenn bradley]

My drawer units are also self contained and removable/changeable. Things change as you go along and I didn't want them built in but the storage is very handy.