Does Anyone Make Good Drill Driver Bits?

[John Mark Lane]

Seriously. Everything I buy seems to be junk. Here's a sampling of results from just the last couple of days. Is it even possible to buy really good drill driver bits? Anywhere? At any price?

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/jmarklane/DSCN0834.jpg

[Steve Rowe]

In one word - APEX. Made in the USA, hardened and suitable for impact drivers.

[Brian J. Elliott]

Most the bits I use daily are Dewalt. I can't recall any problems with them. I use them in a 18v impact. My biggest problem, I lose them.

[Leo Graywacz]

I've had a couple of Vermont American bits, the 6" ones and they lasted a long time. In the end the bit fractured.

Just got a DeWalt robertson bit and so far it is working fine.

Most of the bits end up fracturing at some point, bu they usually last a long time.

[Greg Hawthorne]

I find GFB ok, but not impressed with Irwin. I bought a set of Hitachi driver bits from a bargain table recently and they are junk.

[John Mark Lane]

Thanks for the replies. I've not been impressed with Vermont American (anything), and the Dewalts from the Borg are among those that failed. I think probably they're all mostly from the same factory.

I can't seem to find GFB, although again it appears they are made in Asia.

I found some Apex at McFeely's. Any other sources for these brands? Not easy to find it seems...

Mark

[Eric McCune]

I have really liked these:
Bosch 5-Pack P2 Titanium Phillips® Power Bit

you can find them at Lowes for about $7 per 5 pack. Much better gripping.

[Callan Campbell]

High powered impact drivers, or a lower powered drill/driver? I use bits from several manufs. all day long and haven't seen as much tip failure as you're posting. But, my applications are lower clutch/torque settings for a given fastener so that might make a huge difference for me versus what you're doing. If you buy from certain places, the bits will have a lifetime warranty. It WILL cost you more than a set from the BORG, but as fast as you seem to go through bits, might be worth it to you. Go outside the usual DIY/Woodworker buying places and look into automotive tool suppliers like Snap-On or Matco. My 34 piece driver bit set from Matco is part number MQC34B, has Phillips, Torx, Pozidrive, several small common hex head socket drivers and adapters for 1/4, 3/8" or 1/2" drive sockets, along with 2 extensions. You won't find one of these tool trucks that easily, but you can buy on-line from the tool companies these days.
As fast as you're eating up the bits, might be worth it for you to look into it. Having said all that, I haven't killed anything I bought from McFeelys either, or my Dewalt stuff. I totally agree with the Vermont/American level of life, the bits do seem shorter in lifespan even if you're careful with clutch or impact settings.
Apex is also a great name, I've had some 3/8" drive bits that are used with pneumatic/impact guns, and these tools tend to put out way more power than most cordless versions. Other than Phillips/ Pozidrive tip failure from fatigue, they've held up really well too.:)

[John A. Schaefer]

+1 on the Bosch Titanium bits.

I used to use DeWalt tips, but they wore out fairly quickly under normal use. The Bosch tips are slightly serrated, so they do grip a lot better - and they last longer.

[Don Alexander]

i pretty much thought that hitachi was the Japanese word for junk :eek:

[John Mark Lane]

i pretty much thought that hitachi was the Japanese word for junk :eek:


They may not make good driver bits, but in my opinion they certainly make some good woodworking machines. The jointer/planer combo machine would be a good example. I owned a predecessor model years ago, and would love to have the new one, but it's out of my price range.

Thanks for the "tips" on the Bosch (ha ha).

[Dave Gaul]

I have a Makita Impact bit set that seems to be holding up just fine. I destroyed several philips bits in my impact driver, which led me to buying the impact bit set, no problems so far...

[Tom Walz]

We sell Wiha and Jackrabbit.

Send me a PM and I'll send you a couple to try.

A bit that is too hard breaks and a bit that is too soft deforms so every bit is a compromise. I'll be interested tio see what you think of these.

If you like them we can get you a deal on bulk packs.

Tom

[brett gallmeyer]

irwin makes a forged bit. available in every configuration. there available at menards. u can actually feel the weight difference in the bits. never had one fail yet.

[Steve Griffin]

Thanks Eric, I'll have to pick up some of those to try tomorrow when I'm at Lowes.

John--one of the best ways to not wear out phillips bits is not use phillips screws. Square drive whenever you can.

-Steve

[John Mark Lane]

Thanks Eric, I'll have to pick up some of those to try tomorrow when I'm at Lowes.

John--one of the best ways to not wear out phillips bits is not use phillips screws. Square drive whenever you can.

-Steve


Thanks for the suggestion. I must be doing something wrong, as I have worse luck with the straight bits (see initial post photo).

[Leo Graywacz]

If your drill has a clutch use it so you cannot over torque the screw. You are gonna either break the screw or the bit if you use full torque from the drill.

Or you just have miserable luck with bits. :D:(

[Brian Penning]

Surprised no one has mentioned Dewalt's new Impact ready bits. So far so good with my use of them.

[Greg Portland]

I have tried most of the brands listed above. Wiha's best option snapped the 1st time I used it (talking with the salespeople @ Chadstoolbox they said that the Wiha is not meant for impact driver use, only hand-driving). Other big-box brands quickly rust out or are made of softer metal (tips wear away, etc.).

IMO, the best impact driver bits are Wera Bi-torsion bits. They are available in a variety of tip styles.

[Andrew Catron]

I'll 2nd the Apex, the only place i've gotten them from is McFeely's. I've also had a good experience with the Dewalt Impact Ready and the Hilti (only philips) bits at the orange BORG.

I just received a sampling of Milwaukee's new impact bits and they seem good too. Haven't had them long enough to make a full judgment.

[Steve Rowe]

On the APEX source, I have found McFeely's selection too restrictive. I purchased bits from
http://www.pneumatictoolsonline.com/HTML%20pages/Apex%20Bits.htm
who offers a much greater variety.

On other brands, I gave up. While some of the major name brands may have started putting out a better product that doesn't break or twist now, I no longer trust them. They seem to be more interested in selling cheap than providing a product that actually does what it is supposed to do. You only have one chance to make a first impression and I won't even try them again regardless of the price.

[Dan West02]

I have had rounding problems with square drive bits from McFeely's. I am careful to keep the driver square (in line) with the screw and keep enough pressure down to keep it from jumping out, but I still get rounded bits.

[David Helm]

Over the years I have used thousands of bits. Whatever brand you buy they are not going to last long if you use them a lot. I buy in bulk and never worry about them. Mostly use Robertson (square drive) and change them regularly.

[Dave Lehnert]

I mostly buy bits cheap from the dollar store or Harbor Freight. Never had the feeling I needed better.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

IMO tips and drill bits, buy cheap and toss them out. The borgs have those DeWalt construction packs of same sized bits. Won't matter when you lose them either, you have spares. When they start to slip or look worn, toss 'em. Not worth the hassle.

[Tom Walz]

Free Bits

I made a deal with the original poster. I am sending him a set of four bits to try. These are all Wiha so we don’t introduce too many variables in the test. We will send you a double end (slotted and Phillips), two power bits (one slotted and one Phillips) and a carbide coated Phillips.

We have a couple other folks interested so I bought a couple dozen. Please send me a PM if you would like a test set. These are as good as bits get. If you like cheap bits, and I see your point, you might want to see what you are missing.

We will ship them to you free including shipping USPS. No obligation unless you want to be on our list for upcoming promotions. If you don’t ask you won’t be on it.

Tom

[Rod Sheridan]

I have had rounding problems with square drive bits from McFeely's. I am careful to keep the driver square (in line) with the screw and keep enough pressure down to keep it from jumping out, but I still get rounded bits.

Square drive screws and bits seem to be a poor copy of the Robertson screw.

I've used "square drive" screws and bits and have found that they aren't anywhere near as good as Robertson which have a very slight and precise taper.

You should see if you can get genuine Robertson bits and screws for comparison purposes.

Regards, Rod.

[Neil Brooks]

I tend to agree with those who view the driver bits as a "wear part."

Buy a bag of 'em -- in any shape and size you might need -- then keep 'em close, and change them out the way you (should) change the oil, in your car.

To me, it's like sunglasses: I'll NEVER lose or break a cheap pair, but ... if I ever buy an expensive pair ..... PFFFT!

My $0.02. YMMV. ;)

[Andrew Pitonyak]

About five years back, I helped a friend sink numerous very difficult screws. Significant torque was used. All of my cheap bits simply broke after two screws. My Craftsman bits, however, lasted closer to 20.

I had not realized that it might matter until this experience. I have no comments on gripping ability.

I am watching this thread with interest... Please post your results with your test bits; I know that Tom is sending you some.

[Tom Walz]

There are still about 20 sets available for test for anyone on a first come basis.

Tom

[John Mark Lane]

Tom, again, thank you for this. I will look forward to trying the Wiha bits. It's really nice of you to do this.

As for buying cheap and tossing them, apart from the fact that something about that just offends my sense of...something, it's not just a matter of ruining or ruined bits. They also tend to strip out the screws, and in some cases do so with the screw halfway in. Then you have a devil of a time getting the screw all the way in, or back out to replace it.

Maybe it's just the nature of the beast...but that's what I'm trying to understand (after all these years...).

Mark

[Callan Campbell]

Surprised no one has mentioned Dewalt's new Impact ready bits. So far so good with my use of them.
Brian, in my post about using Dewalt bits, that's what I meant, I just didn't take the name the whole way out like you did. Thanks, I too have had no problems with them either, but I don't really have much trouble with any driver bits unless they're super cheap or the application is the wrong one for the screw head style I've chosen[like Torx or Star would be better than a square drive, A square drive is generally tougher than a Phillips drive etc]

[Tom Walz]

Happy to.

I love good tools. I think the only real test of a tool is what the user thinks of it. I got started in the sawmill market and I still remember complaining to a supplier about a tool that broke. His answer was “Tell the guys in the saw mill to be more careful”. He had a point but it is a lot more fun to just supply a better tool.

Part of the problem with screws and screwdrivers is the way they are made. There is a variation in both of them due to tool wear. It is a problem in hand operations and a huge problem in mechanized assembly with auto feed screws.

Besides I love solving problems.

Tom

[Isaac Juodvalkis]

look into automotive tool suppliers like Snap-On



THis is the way to go, Snap-on brand bits have a lifetime warranty, they cost a few bucks apiece, but they will all ways replace them for free. You can go to there website and request a dealer to contact you, or you can go to your local auto shop and find out when the truck shows up and meet them then.

good luck

[Tom Walz]

Bits came in today.

They will go out tomorrow USPS.

There are still a couple sets if anyone esle wants to try them.

Tom

[Tom Walz]

P.S.

These are bits for drill / drivers either manual or power.

People do use them successfully in impact drill / drivers but they are not rated for that.

Tom

[John Mark Lane]

My bits arrived yesterday, along with a handful of other goodies. Tom, thank you, that's very kind of you. I'll be able to give them a try in the next few days. Will report back (with photos).

Thanks!

Mark

[Will Overton]

Bits came in today.

They will go out tomorrow USPS.

There are still a couple sets if anyone esle wants to try them.

Tom

Got my package today. I'm looking forward to trying the #1 Phillips when the hinges get here for the drop front desk I'm finishing up. Those are the bits that need to grip the best so as not to chew up the small brass screws. The bits and Allen wrenches are appreciated, the "snack pack" was over the top. :cool:

Thank You

[Tom Walz]

Uh, oh.

Ashley added the hex keys and the candy. I didn’t know we were doing that and didn’t do it on the ones I sent out personally. (This isn’t one of those companies where the president is the smartest or knows everything, obviously.)

Ashley is going to college and came to work in production . We promoted her because she is smart and has good ideas. She will see that everyone gets hex keys and candy.

Me? I guess I’ll go to lunch.

tom

[Greg Portland]

These are bits for drill / drivers either manual or power.

People do use them successfully in impact drill / drivers but they are not rated for that.Tom, thanks for sending out the freebies. I've used the various Wiha options. They are excellent for hand held or low power driving (and their driver handles are truly exceptional). However, they do not cut it for use with impact drivers. I was using a new Phillips bit to drive 3" screws into pine and the bit snapped about 30min into the job. I imagine that square drive (or even torx) bits would not be as much of a problem due to how the force is distributed on the bit face.

[Tom Walz]

Dear Mr. Portland:


Thank you for your comments. What I stated earlier was the official Wiha answer. It is true but we wanted to see how it works in real life. "The only true test of tool quality is the opinion of the person actually using it."

I just talked to the Wiha rep and he agreed with your answer completely. He also sells Bondhus and says they have a new tool designed for impact use. He will send me some literature and I will buy some to give away here.

Thanks again,
Tom

[mason winston]

FWIW, I've been using the new DeWalt "Impact Ready" bits recently, and have been pleasantly surprised. In the interest of full disclosure, I've only used the Phillips and Square tips, but I haven't damaged a screw head or driver tip yet. Definitely better than their regular product.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Back when my Carpal tunnel was causing me no end of agony letting me get maybe 5 hours of sleep in any given week I eschewed all conventional screws in favor of STAR or TORQX type screws.
The up side for my carpal tunnel was I never had to push on the drill to prevent cam out of the bit. The bits and screws simply don't let go of each other till you are bloody good and ready to have them let go.
I've tried square, flat, phillips, phillips/square and all required me to push to prevent cam out.
I prefer the STAR screw and bit over every single other type I've used.

I've lost plenty of bits but never broken one.

Give it a try.

[John Mark Lane]

Back when my Carpal tunnel was causing me no end of agony letting me get maybe 5 hours of sleep in any given week I eschewed all conventional screws in favor of STAR or TORQX type screws.
The up side for my carpal tunnel was I never had to push on the drill to prevent cam out of the bit. The bits and screws simply don't let go of each other till you are bloody good and ready to have them let go.
I've tried square, flat, phillips, phillips/square and all required me to push to prevent cam out.
I prefer the STAR screw and bit over every single other type I've used.

I've lost plenty of bits but never broken one.

Give it a try.


My main objection to using the Star or Torx screws is, every time I find myself needing to unscrew something, all I have handy is a philips or flathead. I realize that's not much of an answer, but it's the stupid truth.

[Ryan Baker]

Back when my Carpal tunnel was causing me no end of agony letting me get maybe 5 hours of sleep in any given week I eschewed all conventional screws in favor of STAR or TORQX type screws.
The up side for my carpal tunnel was I never had to push on the drill to prevent cam out of the bit. The bits and screws simply don't let go of each other till you are bloody good and ready to have them let go.
I've tried square, flat, phillips, phillips/square and all required me to push to prevent cam out.
I prefer the STAR screw and bit over every single other type I've used.

I've lost plenty of bits but never broken one.

Give it a try.

I agree completely. Torx drive are the best by far in my experience too. Square drive would be next.

[Clint Olver]

Square drive screws and bits seem to be a poor copy of the Robertson screw.

I've used "square drive" screws and bits and have found that they aren't anywhere near as good as Robertson which have a very slight and precise taper.

You should see if you can get genuine Robertson bits and screws for comparison purposes.

Regards, Rod.


Too true. They look nearly identical, square bits are like the Roloxes of watches. Why do slot, philips, and square screws even still exist?

Robertson all the way!

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=58256&cat=1,43411,43417

C

[Will Boulware]

Following up on this, I made the lucky list of people that Tom Walz sent bits to. Here's a brief review. (Note: I'm a homeowner, not a contractor, pro woodworker, or journalist. No scientific basis was used in this test. It's just a real-world address of what the tool can do in an ordinary situation.)

I'm very impressed with the carbide tipped Wiha. I used it to reassemble a bowflex that I recently inherited. The phillips head fasteners on said machine? Lets just say they were not so great. Soft metal, etc. I expected to easily strip them with my 18v porter cable drill (not saying it's a hell of a drill or anything, just saying the fasteners weren't great stock to start with.) I used both the Wiha combination bit and the carbide tipped phillips bit on this assembly. Both of them "bit" well into the fastener and out of probably a dozen screws, I had one cam out and partially strip the phillips slots. This was my fault, as I leaned on it a half second too long after the bolt was tight and I had the clutch cranked all the way up on my drill. Repeat. No fault of the bits. They performed very well.

I puttered around the house doing odd jobs this past weekend and used the carbide bit some more. Gotta say, I love it. I'm sold. I'd happily buy this product. Thanks to Tom for the sample. I'd recommend it to anyone!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

My main objection to using the Star or Torx screws is, every time I find myself needing to unscrew something, all I have handy is a philips or flathead. I realize that's not much of an answer, but it's the stupid truth.

That's only because you don't use 'em much.
If you ordered boxes of a thousand from McFeelies in various sizes you'd find yourself flush with bits.