Treadle Lathe Tools

[Eric Brown]

I keep thinking about treadle lathes and may eventually get one. As I keep reading and learning an item at TWW caught my eye.

Turning tools for treadle lathes. I thought regular tools would have been just fine but now Joel has me thinking otherwise.

So what do you think? If starting from scratch would these tools be sufficient?

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IT-CSPOLE.XX&Category_Code=N

Thanks. Eric

[george wilson]

They should be just fine. I'd avoid wide tools,though,because of the very low power you can generate with a treadle lathe. Roy Underhill uses regular tools in his show with his treadle lathe. Have you noticed that?

[Robert Rozaieski]

I haven't done a lot of work on my pole lathe, so what I have to say may not be worth much, but I'll offer what I can.

I ended up getting a mix of old tools, both carbon steel and HSS, when I first built my pole lathe. I bought some and some were given to me to try. I kept what I needed and gave the rest to a friend as there were way more than I'd need. I currently use some carbon steel and some HSS, and I think both work fine on the pole lathe, so don't let steel type turn you off of a tool.

Sharpness is much more important with alcohol powered lathes though, so make sure you can sharpen well. Most modern turners work with HSS tools and use their tools right from the grinder. This can't be done with a treadle/pole lathe. You need to hone your tools after grinding just like you do with a bench chisel. The HSS tools that I have hone up fine with my bench stones after grinding, they just take a little longer than the carbon steel tools.

The 2" wide chisel is really nice to have. Treadle lathe users use them for "planing". Basically riding the tool on the top of the spindle being turned in order to straighten and level the cylinder. However, if you already have a 2" wide bench chisel, it will work just fine. You really don't need the long handles of modern turning tools for a treadle lathe as you aren't generating as much torque as a big motor. In fact, many pole lathe turners like using bench chisels and gouges for spindle turning rather than dedicated turning tools as the shorter handles offer more control for detailed cuts. (Bowl turning is different and most bowl turners like REALLY long handles that they can tuck under their arm to steady them).

I actually have a 2" "turning" chisel that someone made from an old Butcher firmer chisel, but I haven't used it yet because some numnut turned it into a double bevel skew. Since it's a laminated chisel, making it a double bevel means the cutting edge is the softer iron rather than the hard steel :mad:. So I have to completely reshape and regrind the whole thing. I really am not looking forward to doing that, so I've been using my 2" single bevel AI bench chisel for "planing" and it works fine.



So after all that rambling, yes, I think the set carried by Joel is a good start. Here's what I'd get for spindle turning:
A sturdy roughing gouge for taking the part from roughly rounded at the shaving horse to truly round. The 1-1/4" one offered by Joel is a good size, or an old bench gouge about the same size would work well too.
A 2" single bevel straight chisel for "planing" your spindles flat before turning the details. The one Joel carries is good, or you could use a bench chisel too.
A double bevel skew chisel, about 3/4" to 1" wide for detail work like beads. Again, the one Joel has will work well, as will a carving chisel or a re-purposed bench chisel.
A small detail gouge ground with a thumbnail edge for detail work like coves. Something about 1/4" or so would be good. A sturdy carving or firmer gouge will also work for this if you reshape the bevel.
You may also want to add a parting tool, though this isn't an absolute must. You can "part" with the skew chisel, but this is a skill that takes some practice to master (at least for me it does, I'm not there yet). So a parting tool might be helpful when you're first starting out.
Again, these tools are my recommendation based on my limited use of my pole lathe for spindle turning. Bowl turning is a whole other animal.

Most bowl turners using manual powered lathes do not use bowl gouges, but instead they use traditional hook tools. I don't know if anyone makes these commercially or not. Most bowl turners make their own. The UK Bodgers forum is a great place for info on hook tools and green wood bowl turning.

One note about turning stock. Green stock turns best on these lathes, however, dried stock can be turned, it's just a little more challenging to turn it cleanly. Air dried stock is ideal if you are going to use dried stock. Kiln dried stock can be turned on these lathes, but it can be frustrating to do so, especially if you are just learning to use the lathe (DAMHIKT). Most important of all, your tools must be sharp. Sharp enough to carve with as the tooled surface is typically the finished surface.

Good luck!

[harry strasil]

I forged my treadle lathe tools from old car springs.

[Stephen Cherry]

This guy is getting along well without a lot of different tools:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnv0DAR_gWA

[harry strasil]

nice sharp tools, but he's got a better back than mine. THANKS

[Brander Roullett]

I haven't done a lot of work on my pole lathe, so what I have to say may not be worth much, but I'll offer what I can.


Fantastic information as always, thanks! I'd love see some of this in action sometime!



Most bowl turners using manual powered lathes do not use bowl gouges, but instead they use traditional hook tools. I don't know if anyone makes these commercially or not.

Actually, there is one place that does, and I would highly recommend his work:
http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/ or direct to the tools here:
http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/woodturningtoolsaccessories.asp (his site is a bit hard to figure out)

I bought set of bowl hooks from them, and they are top quality. Circumstances have prevented me from actually USING them, but the certainly look like they will do the job. They were solid, and well crafted.

badger
...not affiliated in any, just a happy customer. the guy is passionate about the hand tool stuff, and was somewhat surprised to hear that people were into it. I guess he hasn't seen this place. :)

[Brander Roullett]

This guy is getting along well without a lot of different tools:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnv0DAR_gWA

This boggles my mind every time I see it. I can't walk three feet with out tripping on something, much less manipulate a tool with my toes.

:)

I spent some time staring at the tool itself in the video. It's a very thin blade, sharped with a very acute (pointy) angle razor sharp. It looks like it might be slightly relieved on the corners (when he does the straight on cut, its not digging in one way or the other) but only a tiny bit based on the reflections on the corners on some of the close ups.

I'm considering hitting up Harbor Freight and picking up a set of the el cheapo turning tools (HSS) and maybe sharpen one up like this.

badger

[Eric Brown]

I appreciate the responses. Before I buy any tools I also need to consider building a lathe or buying one.

Again thanks.

Eric

[Brander Roullett]

A spring pole lathe is easier to build that you might expect...

http://www.badgerwoodworks.com/articles-and-information/spring-pole-lathe/

I bodged together this one a couple years back, knowing quite a bit less than I do now.

badger

[Adam Cherubini]

I keep thinking about treadle lathes and may eventually get one. As I keep reading and learning an item at TWW caught my eye.

Turning tools for treadle lathes. I thought regular tools would have been just fine but now Joel has me thinking otherwise.

So what do you think? If starting from scratch would these tools be sufficient?

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=IT-CSPOLE.XX&Category_Code=N

Thanks. Eric
I want to add to stuff Bob said:

The English turners roughed with chisels, not gouges like we do. In fact, they did a great deal with straight tools. I like the looks of that shallow sweep roughing gouge.

Pole lathes have gobs of torque. Probably mroe than some electric lathes I've used. The power transmission is high. That can be fun, but it can also be difficult. I'm not real good with the pole lathe. One thing I encountered was that if you had a dull tool the torque from the tool got reacted by the center and I'd loose my center. So you need razor sharp tools-.. like as sharp as any bench chisel. I much prefer high C steels over HSS for this. The honey faster and take a better edge in my opinion.

Treadle lathes don't have gobs of torque, which can be nice. I've used a couple treadles and great wheel lathes and the belts slip. I like this as it reduces catches.

With all man powered lathes, I think you need different tools and techniques than modern turners use. I think Hi carbon tools would be generally better just due to their ability to take good edges and hone quickly. You also need different techniques. The high bevels angles don't work well for me. You can scrape with a manpowered lathe, but it's really not advantageous. I know a lot of turners scrape every cut. Can't do that with meat powered stuff.

Those tools look to be a good selection and I think the prices are reasonable or cheap. The picture doesn't seem to match the descriptions tho, so I'd ask Joel about that.

Warren Mickley is a good turner and he's done quite a bit of work with man powered lathes. Good to get his opinion. Pretty sure he has low angles on his gouges as I recall.

I think turning on a treadle is a great way to learn to turn. It's safe and it changes the way you turn. I have an electric lathe and I feel I work on it as i would a treadle. I use a sorby steb center and really low tail pressure to simulate the belt slippage. I also turn at my lathe's lowest speed (500rpm) which is twice as fast as I would like. It's not a historical accuracy thing or a romantic notion thing. I just like being able to stop the work piece with my hand. It allows me to try different sorts of cuts without fear of ruining the piece.

Adam

[Jim Paulson]

Hi Eric,

I haven't been on the forum much for awhile, but I couldn't resist responding to this thread. I went through a big move of residences three months ago. I'm now re-establishing my woodworking shop into the basement of the church parsonage.

I'm on board to what Bob and Adam said, however as one who has built a spring pole and a treadle lathe based on Roy's designs I say just build the lathe. There are plenty of deals with lathe tools. They show up at garage sales every once in awhile, especially a set of high speed craftsman ones. I also have carbon steel ones too, but it is more important to get going with the turning.

While you're building the lathe or soon after you can pick up a couple lathe chisels, get them sharp and then you'll be hooked. Once you get a tool sharp and start using it on the foot powered lathe, your proficiency will be more and more about your skill in handling the tool. It will also be about the wood and the moisture content of the wood blank you opt to turn. Turning wood from the tree or even after setting the blank aside to partially dry, it still offers a challenge even with sharp tools until you get the hang of it. But it is awesome :)when things go right and you can turn a chair leg on a foot powered tool.

Food for thought.
Jim